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Is five gears enough for touring?

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Is five gears enough for touring?

Old 01-17-19, 05:49 PM
  #26  
ironwood
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I can't tell from the pictures what type of crank is on the bike or whether you can put smaller rings on it. A lot of France is flat; Eurovelo routes and converted train tracks and canal paths are easy.


I think stealth camping in a foreign country is sort of stupid. Why go to a foreign country to hide in the bushes? There are lots of campgrounds, Aubegres de Jeunesse, gite d'etapes etc.where you can meet people. Strangers are willing to talk to cyclists.
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Old 01-19-19, 10:20 AM
  #27  
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Hi.

Thanks for all your comments. I've taken them all on board and had a good think about the purchase. I've decided to go through with the purchase as the shop owner has said I can part-ex it if he gets a more suitable bike for me. I've been desperate for a racing bike for a while now ever since I ditched my car and started riding full-time 4 years ago. I've really got the cycling bug and can't see me ever buying a car again unless I really need to due to a change in my job situation. I've been riding a Raleigh Chiltern for the past 4 years and I've wanted a racer so I can hit the country roads and do some serious cycling. Recently I've been thinking about touring so I can practice French I have been learning for the past years and touring around France in the summer seems the perfect French lesson for me!

I know quite a few people felt that the gears are just not sufficient for touring but I am quite a fit guy and my legs and knees are well made as I used to run a lot from 2009 - 2013 and that muscle that I built up over that period is still there. I also don't smoke or drink. I am grateful for @AlmostTrick for telling me about the Mega range FW which seems perfect for what I need. I also feel that some people are off the mark telling me that it is not worth £140 - I disagree. I've been searching on ebay for an alternative bike and I can't see anything comparable for similar money. Also, If you buy it on ebay and get it delivered the pictures on the auction do not show all the problems and you end up with a lemon. I'd rather buy in person so that means I am limited to what is close to me I think the Dawes Fox it a pretty good deal. If I spend a little money on it and get the Mega range FW, a pannier, bottle holder and some bags I am still under the £200 mark. Some people say a Dawes Galaxy would be better and I agree but the prices of them on ebay uk are pretty steep and range from anywhere from £300 in pretty poor/average shape to over £500.

Like I said I can always part-ex it or sell it privately if something better comes along but at this moment I just want to buy it and ride it. I can't wait to pick it up on Wednesday!
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Old 01-19-19, 10:54 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Its Big, are you tall?
If the seat is adjusted properly for the OP, then the frame is a little tall, but at least he should be able to get on it.

Originally Posted by MarcusT
I think the bike is over-priced IMHO
That does look like a basic "High Tensile steel" bike from the 80's. Also has steel rims. It does appear to be in nice shape, but is at near the upper end of the price range.

As far as 5 gears? It really is about the gearing range rather than the actual number.

Up until recently, I did all my riding on a bike with 54/42 up front and 13/23 in the rear (I think, perhaps even 13/21).

Not a tremendous amount of touring, but a bit. I remember riding around Italy. The hardest climb was near Abetone. It was about a mile of loaded climbing that day, but it just got steep near one of the peaks.

Anyway, the only way to really know is to just try it out. I seem to use up any gear that I have.

If you don't like it, then find a freewheel with a broader range on the rear, or a triple up front.

Do you know what your rear dropout spacing is? If it is set to 126mm, then you should be able to fit on a 7 speed freewheel easily enough.
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Old 01-19-19, 05:02 PM
  #29  
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I've been touring with a 46/28 chainring and 14-34 ultra 6 freewheel , since the 80's. Now at age 72, I don't tour as much, limit to a 2-3 day trip , with rolling hills and 25 lbs. of gear, no issues. KB.
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Old 01-20-19, 05:06 PM
  #30  
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Hi all.

I've seen this a train ride away for sale at £180. I think I could get him down to £140. It is not as big as the Fox as the frame is 22/22.5" (this is from the seller). I am 5"11. I think the Fox is 24". I think this bike could be a better base to build on. I've attached some pics. Do you think it will be fine with a scrub down and some oil?

edit - he said he would take £150.






Last edited by Wozza2014; 01-20-19 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 01-20-19, 05:36 PM
  #31  
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It is a bike ...do need a bike for bike touring...Wheel ,in back, screw on Freewheel 30 years old, .. Modest .. main tubes 531 others probably not.

Word of experience
Overhaul any used bike before heading out touring, so you reduce the chances of it breaking parts.. where it's least desirable ..


probably double the up front cost to begin to be ready,,, then you have to add panniers and the gear to go in them.....







,,,
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Old 01-20-19, 05:57 PM
  #32  
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That's a good point. Do you think it will need another £150 to overhaul? The seller says it was sprayed and rebuilt 12 years ago.

Am I better off with the fox?
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Old 01-20-19, 06:20 PM
  #33  
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I think the Ellis-Briggs is a much better bike. I toured many miles on a similar bike in the 70's. I did one very hilly 1775 km tour in 11 days with about the same gear range.

Early 1970s - Peugeot PX10. This is the bike I raced, and it was not really designed for touring, but I did not know any better, and had a lot of fun




This was my wife's bike from the same era set up for touring. See if you can find an older style Blackburn rack like this that uses the rear brake bridge to mount.


In recent years we also toured on road bikes that were not designed for touring. However, the short chainstays made the use of custom panniers with a lot of taper necessary to prevent heel strike.

I made these panniers with ample taper to allow heel clearance. This was 15 years ago.

Last edited by Doug64; 01-21-19 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 01-20-19, 07:37 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Wozza2014
...
Am I better off with the fox?
I think not.

The bike with a double crank and six speed freewheel looks like better gearing. But the important thing is the fit, the bike with the best fit is the best bike.

This later one you found, I can't tell what the tire size is but I suspect it is 700c which I think would make you much happier with a wider range of tires to choose from later.

I think that the front rim said A719. If so and if the rear is also that rim, those are very good rims for a touring bike.
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Old 01-20-19, 11:28 PM
  #35  
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The 2nd bike is better for touring. It is an odd bike with a strange mix of components. However, I still think the price is a little high. Are they selling these bikes as vintage?
The tires are flat and probably need replacing. It will def need a complete overhaul. Meaning all the bearings need to be repacked, cables lubed, the chain and derailleur look pretty crusty. If this is something you can do yourself, it's very cheap, at a bike shop; probably too expensive.
In the end, you can spend 150 and another 150 to get the bike road-ready or spend 300 for a new bike and have..... well, a new bike.
If you want a vintage bike, then that is another story. You will never get your money's worth, compared to today's bikes.
Anyway, enjoy and let us know what you go with
Cheers
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Old 01-21-19, 02:49 AM
  #36  
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Hi.

I'm not sure about either bike. I can only see the Ellis Briggs in the flash after 6:30 week days (when it's dark) and it's two train journeys away.

I'd like to have a go of overhauling the Ellis Briggs myself but I have never done that before. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and I have plenty of time to do it.

Does all the gears on the Ellis Briggs look OK or would they need replacing?

Last edited by Wozza2014; 01-21-19 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 01-21-19, 05:32 AM
  #37  
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I've wanted a racer so I can hit the country roads and do some serious cycling. Recently I've been thinking about touring so I can practice French I have been learning for the past years and touring around France in the summer seems the perfect French lesson for me!
I think you need to go back to square one and settle on two things;
1. What is the primary purpose of the bike you will buy?
2. What is your budget, including any costs to adjust/upgrade/repair the bike for it to meet this primary purpose?

Do you have camping gear already or is that a necessary addition to your budget? Don't forget to estimate the cost of racks and panniers also.

I can understand the desire to get a bike that will do everything, but I think that "Touring" and "Racing" are far apart on the bicycle scale. The more "racer" it is, the less suitable for touring and vice versa.

Even if you decide that one bike will do both jobs, you may want to consider different set-ups for the bike depending on it's use.
At the very least you will want different tyres for racing as opposed to touring. Maybe even different wheels (dynohub for touring?).
What exactly do you mean by "serious cycling"? Do you mean races? Do you mean group rides? Or just heading off on your own? Is distance and speed the priority or is it more getting away from it all and enjoying a different landscape?

Also, is there a reason why you are looking at older bikes? Availability of spares and the technical knowledge is declining all the time. Not saying it can't be done, just a bit more difficult depending on your skills and knowledge.

The most important factors for a touring bike (in my opinion) are comfort/fit and stability carrying a load. It has to be comfortable for long days and it has to be able to carry your baggage. When considering a non touring bike for touring, a critical thing to look at is the length of the chainstays to make sure your feet have clearance on the pedals and do not hit any panniers. Therefore any "racing" bike that meets those criteria should be viable. I exclude gearing because that can be changed in almost all cases.
After that, it is up to yourself. Anything with "old" technology will require either the input from a bike shop or your own self acquiring skills for maintenance, repairs and upgrading. Anything with more common technology will be easier to handle yourself.

One way of using a "racing" bike to tour is to consider a trailer. Not cheap, but a way to carry gear for camping/touring.

If you want the most flexible and most economic way of creating a multi-use bike consider converting an old MTB. Old steel frame, good gearing, typically with mounts for racks etc. If you want you can add drop bars. (Not straightforward, but doable). Have a look on any second hand site and you'll see suitable bikes for 30 or 40 quid. Building one up will enhance your knowledge and skills and allow you to create a bike that will do what you want it to do. The low cost means that you can spend your budget on the components/gear to allow you do what you want.

Just bear in mind, when it comes to touring there are so many possibilities in terms of locations, distances, surfaces, seasons, length of time. Also it is addictive! It is quite possible that once the bug takes hold of you that what you now consider to be "touring" will change extensively once you try it. A bike that is flexible will be more useful.

Whatever you decide, you can tour on any bike. Some will make the trip more enjoyable, others, less so, but France is fantastic for touring!

Enjoy!
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Old 01-21-19, 05:42 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Wozza2014
Hi all.

I've seen this a train ride away for sale at £180. I think I could get him down to £140. It is not as big as the Fox as the frame is 22/22.5" (this is from the seller). I am 5"11. I think the Fox is 24". I think this bike could be a better base to build on. I've attached some pics. Do you think it will be fine with a scrub down and some oil?

I've taken it on face value that it is what it purports to be.

edit - he said he would take £150.

N.B if you are 5'11"then nominally the Briggs is a suitable size.





I suspect you are the UK and with all due respect to the majority on this forum - they're Americans in America and they are not familiar with prices in Blighty - the Ellis Briggs is a quality frameset and the bicycle is worth £150.00 - Dawes Fox s mentioned; that's tat in comparison.

John.
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Old 01-21-19, 07:49 AM
  #39  
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I do like the Ellis Briggs but I'm not that keen on the colour. I'm just put off by some people saying it will need a complete overhaul. I was hoping a clean down and a oil/grease would do. I was leaning towards the Fox but now you've convinced me to go and try the Ellis after telling the owner I wasn't interested anymore. I'll have to get on the phone and tell them I am interested again.
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Old 01-21-19, 09:36 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Wozza2014
Is five gears enough for touring?
On average, no.

otoh, you may be exceptionally strong, or your route may be exceptionally flat.

But typically, no. You will find yourself wishing you had lower gears on lots of hills. And there's no good reason not to have a wide gear range, given how many options are out there.

I would just get an old rigid fork mtb and put road tires on it. They typically have lots of rack and bottle mounts. And can be had for pretty cheap.
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Old 01-21-19, 10:31 AM
  #41  
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Have you considered the Windsor Tourist? More money up front, but could be a better value that a 5 or 6 cog bike considering that you would have around 60%-75% of that cost into an old bike once you fix or rebuild it and rack it. It should prove to be more reliable, easier to fix, and it is geared well for touring, and commuting.
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Old 01-21-19, 11:04 AM
  #42  
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I like the second bike (Ellis Briggs) better than the first one, especially if you can get the prices within a few pounds.

I am having troubles reconciling the rear derailleur which doesn't match the bike at all. Although, I presume it is functional with the friction shifting. But, I would have anticipated a derailleur hanger on that bike.

I like road bikes for touring, but they may have a little more rear-end flex than other bikes. And, of course, the issues of a paucity of eyelets, and heel strike. But, one can overcome that all.

There are also actual "light touring bikes" that you can find that should be worth considering.

I've also always done 100% rear loading. But, there are good arguments for distributed front/rear panniers which may also help reduce the feeling of the tail wagging the dog.
Originally Posted by Wozza2014
That's a good point. Do you think it will need another £150 to overhaul? The seller says it was sprayed and rebuilt 12 years ago.
I would highly encourage you to roll up the sleeves and do all your maintenance. Knowing your bike will be important for the tour.

You can probably get the bike on the road with £10 worth of grease, perhaps some bearings.

Check the chain for wear. Use the "Mechanics" section on this site for some hints. Or, perhaps just replace the chain before heading out cross-country.

I'd budget another £40 to £80 or so for a pair of good tires, and a few spare tubes.

You'll also need to hunt down a good rack, and some panniers. I don't use a "trunk bag", but rather tie stuff to the top of my rack.

The question is whether you have any big expenses ahead of yourself.

What gets expensive quickly is when you start replacing big chunks of the drivetrain (sprockets, wheels, cranksets, etc).

The gearing on that bike would drive me bonkers. And, if you look at the photos, that bike has spent A LOT OF TIME IN THE TOP GEAR. Notice the only rear sprocket showing any use is that top gear.

I'd probably try replacing the current rear freewheel with a 7-speed DNP Epoch 11-28, 11-30, or 11-32 freewheel, then finesse it to fit properly.

Choose gearing to whatever fits your riding best. It is noted, of course, that when riding loaded and long distances, you won't be riding as fast as cruising empty around the neighborhood.
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Old 01-21-19, 11:06 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Wozza2014
Hi.

I'm not sure about either bike. I can only see the Ellis Briggs in the flash after 6:30 week days (when it's dark) and it's two train journeys away.

I'd like to have a go of overhauling the Ellis Briggs myself but I have never done that before. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and I have plenty of time to do it.

Does all the gears on the Ellis Briggs look OK or would they need replacing?
There are some very good tutorials on youtube on how to rebuild some things on a bike. But there are some bad ones too. The best way for someone new is to watch 3 or 4 or 5 videos, take notes and do what most of the videos say. Usually the bad videos are suggesting things that others are not suggesting, so that is why I suggest watching several on each topic. Some cone wrenches for the hub are generally not too expensive along with some good grease, you would have to get the right size wrenches. And you probably would want a freewheel puller too, there are different ones for different freewheels.

If the bottom bracket is cup and cone, you might be able to have a shop replace it with a newer cartridge unit. The reason I suggest that is the tools to rebuild and re-grease an older cup and cone bottom bracket might cost as much as having a shop put on a new one.

From a photo, you can't tell if the gears and chain are too worn or if they would need replacing on the Briggs but the range of gears shown in the photos would be much better than the Fox for touring.

There are some good articles on the basics of bicycle parts and repair at this web site. The person that started the website died several years ago but others are occasionally making updates to it.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/repairs.html

It is pretty easy to fix things on a British bike and this appears to be British. French and some others used threaded parts that are now much harder to find.
https://www.ellisbriggscycles.co.uk/

If you look at the Briggs again, look at the tire size on the tires and write it down. It might say something like (622X32).
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Old 01-21-19, 12:58 PM
  #44  
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Some great comments - thank you guys.

I have an update. I asked a guy that I bought my Raleigh Chiltern off for his opinion on the bike and he bought it for himself. Gazumped! Ah well maybe it would have been too much of a job for me and I hated the colour anyway. I'm going to buy the Dawes Fox and put a Mega Range rear gear on it so I have a super low gear.
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Old 01-21-19, 01:06 PM
  #45  
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If you are thinking of doing much Touring on a bicycle you need to have some mechanical chops.. to fix things in the Bush..

don't rely on the internet for your judgement calls.. read more..


.... and he bought it for himself ...






..

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-21-19 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 01-21-19, 01:43 PM
  #46  
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I agree with @CliffordK on the parts on that bike. I dunno what was equipped originally, but they look like they pulled some stuff from a parts bin and tossed it together. May mean it was a bike they are just trying to dump that a lot of thought hasn't been put into, may mean that parts were replaced with whatever as they broke. Looks like a nice cool frame tho, I'd probably pay that for it just for the frame.

Good news is if you are mechanically apt at all and have even a basic set of hand tools, you've got pretty much all you need to work on that bike. Getting a decent shifter and derailleur setup shouldn't cost much if you scrounge the secondhand market.
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Old 01-21-19, 03:18 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
...it was not really designed for touring, but I did not know any better, and had a lot of fun
Just caught this and had to laugh. It's amazing what we can do when we don't know we can't
My first real tour was on a mid 80's 1st gen 2x5 mtb that weighed a ton. Loved that trip!

Originally Posted by Wozza2014
I have an update. I asked a guy that I bought my Raleigh Chiltern off for his opinion on the bike and he bought it for himself. Gazumped!
Classy...
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Old 01-21-19, 11:21 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by hobbs1951
I suspect you are the UK and with all due respect to the majority on this forum - they're Americans in America and they are not familiar with prices in Blighty - the Ellis Briggs is a quality frameset and the bicycle is worth £150.00 - Dawes Fox s mentioned; that's tat in comparison.

John.
Well, I am in Italy and can say that a bike this would maybe go for 100 Euro, if it was clean.
Cheers
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Old 01-22-19, 12:36 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by MarcusT
Well, I am in Italy and can say that a bike this would maybe go for 100 Euro, if it was clean.
Cheers
Your comment is rather irrelevant as the Ellis Briggs (a respected Yorkshire builder) is for sale in the UK.

John.
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Old 01-22-19, 07:08 AM
  #50  
jefnvk
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
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Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

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Originally Posted by MarcusT
Well, I am in Italy and can say that a bike this would maybe go for 100 Euro, if it was clean.
Cheers
Eh, I'm in Michigan, and the mere presence of that Reynolds sticker would have people here asking $300+. The fact it is seemingly from a custom builder would drive it up even more. IMO any lugged steel bike in good shape with useable components is probably worth $200 anyhow.

That doesn't really matter though, what matters is the OPs local market.
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