mommus

I've been working on a folding bike idea for almost 18 months now and have been having all kinds of problems trying to unite belt drive and a gear hub with the type of wheels I've designed.

I've come to a point now where the compromises of the frame, just to accomodate the transmission method, are getting unacceptable. I;m wondering whether I might be creating more problems than I'm solving.

I've spoken to every folding bike rider I can whilst commuting by train and by bike over the last year and none of them have expressed any concern about the chains on their bikes. Most are Brompton or Dahon riders, which have regular chains and gears.

I'm thinking seriously about going down a more traditional route, going with chain and cogs, and maybe making a cowl of some kind to keep people's trousers out of trouble.

Does anyone here have problems carrying a bike around with an oily chain? Lubrication-free transmission seems a strong force in concept bike design, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it's such a big problem

snafu21

You need to page Chucky. He's oil phobic too. And he likes hub gears, so he's obviously your kinda guy.

In 1897 Sunbeam Bicycles solved all bike transmission problems forever by enclosing the chain completely and providing 'the Little Oil Bath' in it. They couldn't make them fast enough. MZ Motorcycles did much the same. The chain was enclosed in a chain guard, with full length plastic tubes top and bottom. Engines wore out faster than the chains. There were no issues with the 'Black Tattoo of Death' with either.



The question is easily solved on modern folders, otherwise by either having a chain guard, or by arranging the fold so the chain goes on the inside. There are opinions, which I don't dismiss, that bike chains can go a long time without extra lubrication, especially with hub gears. My own bike is six months old, runs a dérailleur, and hasn't yet had the chain lubed although it's been cleaned once in kerosene. It's a Vitesse D7. I do about 60 miles a week on it. Shifting is flawless. Learning to pick the bike up with the chain on the outside is easy. The plastic chain guard on the chainwheel helps. Also, with minimal lube, the oily chain syndrome doesn't exist.

Dahon sell hundreds of thousands of bikes a year. They ditched the full length (top) chain guard around 2005.

In 2009 you asked if IGH's could work in reverse, so the input shaft became the output. Are you working on some weird belt-drive hub-geared secret weapon?


UPDATE: I have discovered that Mommus is working on a propulsion system for a MIDGET SUBMARINE!

chucky

What problem are you solving? Does an unoiled belt provide any advantage over an unoiled chain? I doubt it.

Which is exactly the problem. No wonder security guards, doormen, bartenders, etc look for any excuse to exclude such rude and inconsiderate individuals.

Just because the owner of the folding bike is willing to risk a little grit that doesn't mean the people around you are. It doesn't help if the owner of the bike knows what part not to touch or what part to face towards his neighbors. It's the height of selfishness.

Act like filthy swine and that's how you'll be treated.

Not as easily as simply eliminating lube entirely. Also an inside fold doesn't completely cover the chain nor does it solve the problem when the bike is unfolded.

While riding the other day I accidentally dropped my spare shirt (I ride shirtless in the summer) into my drivetrain where it subsequently got jammed and almost put me over the bars. Fortunately I was still able to wear it at my destination as it wasn't marked even in the slightest.

I suggest the OP focuses on solving problems that need to be solved, like grit from brake dust, rather than problems which already have simple solutions.

mommus

bollox! just typed a lengthy reply that has disappeared somehow.

probably just as well.

I totally agree with you chucky. The effect a folder has on the people around you when carrying it is just as important as the effect on the owner. I have addressed this problem, which basically involves a cover that prevents any road nastyness getting on other hapless commuters. I think wet and dirty wheels are far more of a problem than brake dust. There will also have be a chainguard.

thanks for all you comments guys

brakemeister

always can do this ....
https://www.thorusa.com/dahon/technical/belt.htm

no oily chain
thor

Azreal911

dang that is a very very nice commuter you built there! basically what you did is almost totally eliminated any more chain maintenance and yeah I love the belt drives. You should probably sell it back to dahon and show them what a real commuter bike should be like!

not with those silly chain coil covers they just throw on to the bike chains on some of this years models as an amazing upgrade. *note sarcasm*

kamtsa

One alternative for oily chains is using non oil lube https://www.whitelightningco.com/products/index.htm

mommus

belts are pretty cool, but unfortunately they require a gear hub, which isn't possible in my case. Nice bike BTW Thor

mommus

he he he.. in the UK 'White Lightning' is the cheapest, nastiest cider you can buy. Commonly seen in the hand of the homeless dude who 'lives' near my office!

BruceMetras

Or, one could currently buy an Abio Verdion as a belt drive commuter bike for about $550.. Here's my daily used Verdion with Gates Carbon Drive and a Shimano 4spd .

brakemeister

of course Bruce the bike of yours has the expensive GAtes drive and a custom hub installed..... I know that the other abios have belt drives but not the Gates version....
what I am trying to say is that your bike has significant upgrades and is most likely not the standard bike for 500 buckaroos....
Hell I almost paid that much for the Gates invoice alone ( not to mention the other crank and small bits and pieces )

:-)
Thor

BruceMetras

Actually, the hub isn't custom, but box stock.. but you're right, you get hit pretty hard for the high end Gates stuff.. there is supposed to be a lower cost alternative being released this year .. what you and I have is Gates CDX sprockets .. the lower cost option to be released is the
Gates CDC sprockets .. but the $550 Abio Verdion actually works pretty well with its earlier Gates belt and sourced sprockets.

chucky

Indeed, it's like eating a banana split off a paper plate on the train. In theory you shouldn't make a mess if you're careful, but reality never goes quite so smoothly. See above about my incident of dropping my shirt in my drivetrain. Mistakes happen all the time and an oily chain guarantees that when they do happen the consequences are disastrous.

It seems to me that the primary culprit that makes wet wheels dirty is the brake dust (or rather brake sludge) which results from brake pads disintegrating in the rain. IME an unbraked wheel remains relatively clean.

The only thing on earth which is actually dirtier than real oil. It's amazing how something which goes on clean can come off in such a nasty black stain!

kamtsa

My experience with White Lightning is very different.

Kam