Old carbon - How safe?
10-01-14, 09:40 PM
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Q: If carbon frames are spontaneously asploding everywhere, where are the class action lawsuits?
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10-01-14, 09:53 PM
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There would be a tremendous advantage. The primary limiter of span length is the dead weight of the structure. If you could maintain strength while keeping weight down bridges could have longer unsupported spans. The centuries old progress in bridge spans owes more to improvements in available materials than any other factor. CF may be the next logical step in that progression.
CF is relatively new, and unfortunately, in the bicycle world is used to build race bike clones. However if those same materials were used from design forward to build bikes best suited for touring or commuting, you'd see bikes a bit heavy by CF standards, but lighter and stronger than the steel bikes they replace.
The issues with CF aren't the CF, but how the builders use it.
CF is relatively new, and unfortunately, in the bicycle world is used to build race bike clones. However if those same materials were used from design forward to build bikes best suited for touring or commuting, you'd see bikes a bit heavy by CF standards, but lighter and stronger than the steel bikes they replace.
The issues with CF aren't the CF, but how the builders use it.
10-01-14, 10:50 PM
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Bottom line. What will 'break' first. Carbon or steel...
I've seen carbon break a bunch of times. Steel? One time I helped a buddy bend his fork straight on the side of the road after him touching a wheel at high speed in a group and hitting the deck hard at 50 km/h.
I don't dislike carbon, but the delusion factor runs pretty high when materials are discussed....mostly from people who
just put 5k + into a carbon bike...or 3 (and don't have a team paying for it).
I've seen carbon break a bunch of times. Steel? One time I helped a buddy bend his fork straight on the side of the road after him touching a wheel at high speed in a group and hitting the deck hard at 50 km/h.
I don't dislike carbon, but the delusion factor runs pretty high when materials are discussed....mostly from people who
just put 5k + into a carbon bike...or 3 (and don't have a team paying for it).
10-01-14, 11:01 PM
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Well, I've seen broken frames of every material. And I am pretty well convinced that many carbon frames are stronger than many steel frames.* I am just not happy with the way a carbon frame can hide serious flaws. Steel tends to give warning before failure. I find that comforting.
*I have seen a lot of broken carbon steerer tubes. I have never seen a broken steel steerer tube. I think steerers are a bad place for carbon fiber.
*I have seen a lot of broken carbon steerer tubes. I have never seen a broken steel steerer tube. I think steerers are a bad place for carbon fiber.
10-02-14, 05:45 AM
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10-02-14, 05:46 AM
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The longest suspension main span seems to around 6,500 feet. Suspension bridges also are some of the longest bridges in the world, not including pontoon bridges.I wonder if the cost of carbon beams out weigh the limiters of using cheaper material. In Washington State, we just finished building a suspension bridge right next to the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. The cost was considerable.
10-02-14, 06:16 AM
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10-02-14, 06:20 AM
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See me personally to collect your prize.
10-02-14, 06:57 AM
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Interesting discussion and some good suggestions. I didn't realize this was a hot topic. I 'm not disparaging carbon by posting it. Only asking a question. I'm going to inspect the bike and go from there.
As for details, sorry only additional info i can offer is that the husband was riding with his wife and witnessed her go down.
Lastly, as far as the airplanes are made of carbon fiber debate I'll offer two points. First, apples and oranges. The material, process, and corresponding strengths used by each industry are totally non correlated. Second, for those who point to the Boeing 787 I say, I hope it keeps flying without problems. One need to look no further than the Airbus A300, Boeing 737, and most notably, the Lockheed Electra 188, to find hidden catastrophic flaws in the realm of we don't know what we don't know leaving engineers scratching their heads saying "We didn't know that could happen!" Only time will tell if the 787 along with the new gen planes will prove to be safe over time.
As for details, sorry only additional info i can offer is that the husband was riding with his wife and witnessed her go down.
Lastly, as far as the airplanes are made of carbon fiber debate I'll offer two points. First, apples and oranges. The material, process, and corresponding strengths used by each industry are totally non correlated. Second, for those who point to the Boeing 787 I say, I hope it keeps flying without problems. One need to look no further than the Airbus A300, Boeing 737, and most notably, the Lockheed Electra 188, to find hidden catastrophic flaws in the realm of we don't know what we don't know leaving engineers scratching their heads saying "We didn't know that could happen!" Only time will tell if the 787 along with the new gen planes will prove to be safe over time.
10-02-14, 07:05 AM
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Hey now, post 17, fully 34 posts ahead. This is my formal protest of the results.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
10-02-14, 07:29 AM
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I hear carbon fiber is so strong they might some day make make race cars and grand prix motorcycles out of it.
10-02-14, 07:30 AM
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After reading this whole thread, I believe fashion and marketing has overrated the bicycle frame way beyond reality. The legs are what is important, even though we all ride carbon frames to be in fashion.
10-02-14, 07:37 AM
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And there's nothing wrong with that.
10-02-14, 07:43 AM
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I thought you realized that when you started your thread about modern carbon being an over rated fashion statement. Holy delayed reaction, Batman!
10-02-14, 07:46 AM
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10-02-14, 07:52 AM
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10-02-14, 07:53 AM
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10-02-14, 08:12 AM
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Bottom line. What will 'break' first. Carbon or steel...
I've seen carbon break a bunch of times. Steel? One time I helped a buddy bend his fork straight on the side of the road after him touching a wheel at high speed in a group and hitting the deck hard at 50 km/h.
I don't dislike carbon, but the delusion factor runs pretty high when materials are discussed....mostly from people who
just put 5k + into a carbon bike...or 3 (and don't have a team paying for it).
I've seen carbon break a bunch of times. Steel? One time I helped a buddy bend his fork straight on the side of the road after him touching a wheel at high speed in a group and hitting the deck hard at 50 km/h.
I don't dislike carbon, but the delusion factor runs pretty high when materials are discussed....mostly from people who
just put 5k + into a carbon bike...or 3 (and don't have a team paying for it).
There is a myriad of published test results that address this very issue available on line. There are almost as many uTube videos dedicated to the same thing.
Carbon outperforms all materials every time, by a lot. Hands down.
Last edited by Bob Dopolina; 10-02-14 at 08:25 AM.
10-02-14, 08:13 AM
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The "riding a bike lighter than the UCI minimum" is a complete strawman - if the bikes that the pros are riding are heavier, it's overwhelmingly because their bike is weighed down, not because there's more structural material.
10-02-14, 08:21 AM
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Carbon isn't used to construct girders for bridges but the cost would be ASTRONIMCAL and one large bridge would consume a large portion of the global supply.