Leo: The 1960s Bottecchia...randonneur?
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Leo: The 1960s Bottecchia...randonneur?
NOTE: Thread previously entitled "Tell me about Leo...". The post below starts the saga straight from the moment I bought this frame at an LBS, along with a little tour of the shop.
This is "Leo." Leo is a 1960's-ish Bottecchia frameset with some more modern braze-ons, a CyclArt repaint...and he's all mine now. The goal is to build a neo-retro porteur with it. And why not? It's been modified enough already that it's not quite pure to anything anymore.
P.S.: At the time, I didn't know it was a 1960's Bottecchia, and the headbadge is the same as the Leo badge referenced later in this thread.
This is "Leo." Leo is a 1960's-ish Bottecchia frameset with some more modern braze-ons, a CyclArt repaint...and he's all mine now. The goal is to build a neo-retro porteur with it. And why not? It's been modified enough already that it's not quite pure to anything anymore.
P.S.: At the time, I didn't know it was a 1960's Bottecchia, and the headbadge is the same as the Leo badge referenced later in this thread.
Last edited by cudak888; 04-08-23 at 07:38 AM.
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I’m starting to wonder if that headbadge was just plopped on that frame. Can’t find any evidence of such a brand (!)
There’s also a Zunow frameset here in bare steel, and a crashed funnybike that was cheaply chromed at one time. I’m going nuts in this shop - in the best way ever.
-Kurt
There’s also a Zunow frameset here in bare steel, and a crashed funnybike that was cheaply chromed at one time. I’m going nuts in this shop - in the best way ever.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 11-10-19 at 09:15 PM.
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Peugeot-badged Stronglight 104. Beautiful, and looks older than it is (and way overpriced, even without the Rino pedals).
Nice Nuovo crankset:
Nice Nuovo crankset:
Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:15 PM.
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Better headbadge pic of the "Leo" Bottechia:
Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:15 PM.
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I’m loaded up with frame trade bait for tomorrow:
Last edited by cudak888; 11-30-19 at 05:27 PM.
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about that stem, Colonel Kurtz is thinking, "the horror ... the horror."
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There are a gazillion International frames around that shop in all sorts of states - fully chromed, that blue one up there, two stock...none of them particularly nice.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 04-08-23 at 07:39 AM.
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#13
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This might be a help:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.
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This might be a help:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.
Can't seem to find these lugs associated with anything else other than the low-end Bottecchia Spcial though, and the Campagnolo 1010's and nice stay ends between both these bikes indicate that there's something more to it than just a base Special.
EDIT: Someone in the thread above put it at '55-64. No justification provided though.
Also found @Kommisar89's '59 Milano-Sanremo: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-frame.html
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 05:30 PM.
#15
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I didn't think the frame was low-end. It weighs under 3.1 kg, the same as early '70s Raleigh International or Competition, Motobécane Le Champion, and Bob Jackson frames with similar tubesets.
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That said, there's nothing low end about these earlier frames, from the looks of it. It's just difficult to know what one is looking at. Yours is one of these nice frames, as is the "Leo" Bottecchia, but there's precious little to go on with these. @Kommisar89 apparently has a chromed frame which shares these lugs and the 1010 dropouts, along with the grease/oiling port: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-frame.html, and @ldmataya seems to have a pipeline into dating these things: https://www.bikeforums.net/19337562-post5.html
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:25 PM.
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It’s mine now, and a Raleigh Professional Mark IV has come along for the ride .
I've also offered to cold-set the bent rear triangle of the chrome funnybike shown here as well.
I've also offered to cold-set the bent rear triangle of the chrome funnybike shown here as well.
Last edited by cudak888; 11-30-19 at 05:29 PM.
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I piped up awhile back with an opinion on the Leo Bottecchia, so @cudak888 asked me to back up that seemingly authoritarian claim
My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.
Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd
My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.
Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd
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I piped up awhile back with an opinion on the Leo Bottecchia, so @cudak888 asked me to back up that seemingly authoritarian claim
My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.
Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd
My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.
Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd
I found that this lug does seem to show up on some of the earlier, bottom-end Bottecchia specials, which made me a bit concerned at first, but the fork crown and Campagnolo drops throughout helped to alleviate these fears.
I'm pretty sure we're looking at the early 1960's with Leo,as it is wearing closed "C" Campagnolo 1010 drops. My '61 Schwinn Paramount, by comparison, wears the open "C." I'm not sure when the hole for the Campagnolo Sport derailer was dropped, but Leo does have it.
Pity we don't have a '60s Bottecchia catalog kicking about.
-Kurt
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@cudak888 - I like the Leo! Do you have a head-on closeup shot of that head badge that you could post? The reason I'm asking is that I've never seen an actual Leo head badge, only a drawing.
Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).
Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.
In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):
* From a recent ID thread
* One for sale in Italy
Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).
Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.
In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):
* From a recent ID thread
* One for sale in Italy
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@cudak888 - I like the Leo! Do you have a head-on closeup shot of that head badge that you could post? The reason I'm asking is that I've never seen an actual Leo head badge, only a drawing.
Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).
Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.
In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):
* From a recent ID thread
* One for sale in Italy
Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).
Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.
In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):
* From a recent ID thread
* One for sale in Italy
The badge holes do line up with the Bottecchia frame, so I'm not sure what to believe at this point regarding this specific frame.
Those two Bottechias in your photos look about the same if you examine them as frames only. Brown one looks to be a repaint with a later Sugino mid-range crankset on it, probably a 1970's upgrade from the cottered crank (which looks like a Stronglight, but I'm pretty sure it isn't), but the lugwork and frame details match up with the rest.
If there only wasn't such a wide range of years associated with these. About the only thing that seems as if it could help with dating is the serial (except no serial charts exist) and the deletion of the grease port at the back of the headtube (date unknown). EDIT: Headbadge holes may be an indicator; just noticed the Italian frame has them on the sides.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 08-13-19 at 05:40 AM.
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Heck I would have bought that bike for the head badge. Nice score.
If I had a bike shop like that near me, I'd be broke by now,
If I had a bike shop like that near me, I'd be broke by now,
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What's the deal on that Cannondale, with the "unique" stem? That colorway rocks, with a better stem. 😎