zaroba

Looking for a new front derailleur on amazon and seeing top and bottom swing. Never heard the terms before, and looking online it seems it just relates to the clamp being above or below the derailleur. Any I have had have the clamp above them so I guess it would make them bottom swing. Am I correct in guessing there's no difference in operation besides how it clamps to the frame and possibly whether the cable connects from underneath or above?

I'm also seeing different mm specifications, 35mm,31mm, 28mm, etc. What's that measurement?
Too wide for the chain width, way too short for the length. Is it the max travel distance when shifting gears?

Planning on ordering new wheels for one of my old bikes, are cassettes mostly universal?
I imagine there has been some variations over the years. I'm wondering if I should just buy a new cassette for the new rear wheel I'm getting for my 1970s Peugeot road bike in case the original cassette doesn't fit. But on that note, would any modern cassette fit the new wheel? Assuming the cassette doesn't have too many gears for the axle length of the wheel anyway.

big john

The dimension is the diameter of the seat tube for a clamp on derailleur. That is the type of derailleur which has the clamp built in to the derailleur. The other way to attach it to the frame is called "braze on" where a mounting tab is part of the frame. They are not interchangeable.

The bottom swing/top swing refers to the direction of the cable attachment, not the mounting of the derailleur. These are not interchangeable either.

big john

zaroba

Is that like bike frames with an extension for the rear derailleur vs those that need to use an installed bracket to mount the derailleur on?

Either way, thanks. All of my bikes need the front derailleur clamped onto the frame. They don't have a built in mount for them.

Frkl

I think you are confusing top and bitton swing with top pull and bottom pull, which is direction of the cable routing. Pull directions are in and of themselves not interchangeable, but there are derailleurs that can do both (ie there are top, bottom, and "either or" pull types). Top and bottom swing cam have any of these pull directions.

Bottom and top swing derailleurs are theoretically interchangeable but watch out what the frame is like at the clamp location. If you have an ovalized seat tube near the bb a bottom swing may not work (this happened to me). If you have a small frame with bottle braze ons, a top swing might not work (well)(also happened to me).

big john

There is a difference between a freewheel and a cassette. Not interchangeable and cassettes are specific to the hub as far as splines. What you have is probably a freewheel.

big john

It's early. Yes I've seen some pulley contraptions to make derailleurs work.

big john

Not like rear derailleurs. Look at the first video I posted. In the first part he shows the different mounting.

zaroba

lol, I don't know. Google says people use the terms interchangeably which causes confusion.

5 gear set that isn't fixed (free spinning when peddling backwards), attached to the wheel, and needs a special tool to remove. Tool is called a freewheel tool (and hopefully they are universal ) so I guess it is a freewheel. I'm just basing the tool need on looking at the gear set and tool, looks like its a match.

Are freewheel gear sets universal then or can different rear wheels from different years and manufacturers have different thread dimensions?

big john

A freewheel is a one piece unit that has the ratchet mechanism in it. A freewheel screws onto the hub. I don't know about the threads but it wouldn't surprise me if there were different ones.
A cassette is a stack of cogs which may come in pieces and each cog fits onto a spline called the freehub body. The body is attached to the hub and has the ratchet inside. Freehub bodies can be replaced or have new bearings installed. Some will fit different numbers of cogs.

Russ Roth

Top pull/bottom pull refers to the direction the cable pulls on the lever arm its bolted to. Top/bottom swing will refer to the mounting location, top the der sits above the band clamp, bottom it sits below.

Usually on gravel/cross/touring bikes to allow the use of road front ders when cables are routed on the top tube to keep them out of muddy situations.

The extension on the back is called a derailleur hanger, not quite the same but similar idea. The braze on for a front der is to help protect the thinner tubes of a higher end bike from the crushing forces of a band clamp and it helps the bike to look a little cleaner. Der hangers are fairly important with a QR wheelset which, at one time, meant a higher end bike since the QR does a poor job of holding a rear der that bolts on at the dropout.

Not universal, especially with 5sp. Look at the brand. Shimano in 5sp has 2 different formats, there's one that requires removing the outer axle nut and spacer, this axle nut isn't meant to be screwed down tight, only then will the tool fit; easy to tell, it will look like you can't fit a tool past the nut and into the splines because you can't. The newer shimano freewheel standard is most common across 6 and 7sp and was also used with 5sp, there will be an obvious gap around the axle nut to slide a tool over the nut and into the splines. However, with 5sp especially lots of other brands had market share and they use different tools altogether. Suntour was common in 5sp and 6sp, less in 7sp but used a tool with 2 splines or 4 splines, using this tool requires care. Helicromatic hubs were popular in 5sp. You have to look at the brand and don't presume with 5sp and 6sp freewheels.

smd4

I suggest you watch a LOT of videos and do a LOT of research before jumping in with both feet.

zaroba

Mallard stamped on the gear so that's likely the brand, and looking closely, it needs a tool that has at least 30 teeth or rather grooves. That caliper doesn't seem to be supplied by Park Tool or other common modern companies but it is a nearly 50 year old bike. Guess I'll just buy a new gear set to go along with the new wheel.

wheelreason

Yes, the mm measurements are for dlrs with buiilt in clamps, Braze on dlrs are the ones you bolt to the frame or clamp.

3alarmer 

...freewheels on bicycles this old are often stuck tightly on the hub, and difficult to remove. If you are buying a new wheel anyway, going with a new freewheel is not an unreasonable choice. Depending on what you plan for this bike, they come in a various levels of quality, and are priced accordingly.

dedhed

A lot involved in this statement. Wheel size (27 - 700 diam) . Hub spacing aka OLD (120-126-130mm), freewheel (not cassette) (Italian, english, french threading) 70s Peugeot very likely french. Better get familiar with and verify these things before you order anything.

Russ Roth

That's an old shop only tool and the freewheel won't fit anything modern wheel, it used a completely different design. I suspect you're going to need shop help or someone who knows what they're doing. Bolt on vs quick release is going to matter, the spacing between the dropouts might need to be expanded, most modern wheels are 130mm even if they're freewheel. A freewheel bolt-on wheel can be narrowed down to fit sometimes but usually requires a shop with random spare parts. Unless you're all about collecting and preserving or this bike has some particular special value to you, I'd recommend looking at a newer used bike. Needed wheels, freewheels, front der, etc you're liable to spend as much as you would for a used late 90s, early 2000s road bike and the two bikes in terms of tech and quality probably won't be comparable.

SurferRosa

Sure would be a lot easier if you posted a few clear drive-side photos of the bikes and go from there. I know that's the easy, direct way to do it that may not appeal to professional wordsmiths.

dedhed

You really should go to the C&V subforum.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-threaded.html

veganbikes

Your local bike shop should be able to help you out and you can just get the correct parts and do it yourself or you can have them work on the bike for you or at least parts you do not wish to tackle. Personally if I didn't have a Maillard freewheel tool already I would just ask the shop to deal with that one and also help you measure everything. If they charge you to measure great if they don't bring them something nice to thank them and keep coming back in as they can be a valuable resource in the future!

I would not recommend Amazon for anything bike related unless you are in a major jam and really have no other options which is a tough wall to hit as you would be in a warehouse the size of multiple American Style Football (that is played with the hands mostly and very rarely kicked) fields and have a lot of space to go before you hit the wall as you have actual brick and mortar shops, online brick and mortar shops and loads of online bike shops (that aren't brick and mortar) and probably some other outdoor speciality retailers that also sell bike stuff both in brick and mortar and online before you hit Amazon.

VegasTriker

Just to add a little more confusion, you need a compatible freewheel removal tool to get the old one off. This Maillard French threaded FW looks similar to what I remember as being the Shimano type FW remover. A Malliard FW is shown in this https://www.ebay.com/itm/166289021292 . It is far easier to find vintage parts on eBay than elsewhere but they are not cheap. I owned a 1973 Motobecane Le Champion road bike. It did have French threaded bottom bracket and headset but I had built my own wheels using a Japanese threaded (same as English thread) rear hub. It may make more sense to find a used 27" rear wheel with a 5 speed freewheel already on it. It should be interchangeable as was the wheels I made using Japanese components fit.

zaroba

Yea, it's sad that it can easily be cheaper to buy a new bike than to repair an old one. But that's most things nowadays, we live in a disposable society and it even effects older stuff that the time that it was cheaper to repair. I have thought of just buying a new bike, but I take pride in fixing up older stuff so it still works. Just personal accomplishment since there's no other gain in the long run, can't easily sell it to get your money back if somebody can buy a new bike for less unless you can find somebody with an interest in old stuff that works, a niche market.

On a side note, I have had people comment that my bikes look nice. Probably just because they are old models that they don't see anymore, it's something different to them.

zaroba

Ok, I won't deny you some bike pics.

Bike, Peugeot road bike. According to people here it's from the 1970s. Not to much done besides replacing the frame mounted shifters with thumb shifters on the handlebar and running new cabling and replacing the rear derailleur. Replaced the front bake pads but still need to replace the rear brake caliper and replace/fix the crank. Crank works but is loose, special bolt missing from one of the crank arms so it has a little play when pedeling, debating on getting clamp on crank arms or just replacing the entire crank, I know replacing the whole crank will involve taking measurements to ensure I get one that fits properly.



Front derailleur that broke a few weeks ago, been using a different bike since then. Simple clamp on derailleur, it was just the top/bottom swing terms that confused me since I've never seen them before so wanted to ask about them.



Rear gearset. Wheel has some spokes broken at the hub on the gearset side. Just going to buy a new wheel so was questioning if this gearset could be compatible with a new modern wheel.

smd4

I'm not sure that bike is worth sinking a whole lot of money into. You could get something light-years ahead in terms of function even if you went used for the money that you're going to spend to get this rideable--maybe. Additionally, that bike may not even be the right size bike for you.

If you go further, this will be a "learning bike" for you. Expect to be greatly frustrated when it doesn't work as you expected, after running into problem after unexpected problem.

zaroba

The frame certainly is big for me, I need the seat all the way down to ride it properly.
Based on my possibly outdated knowledge, when the pedal is all the way down my foot will sit flat with my knee only slightly bent.

Seat vs handlebar position is comfortable for me. Only issue is how narrow the handlebars are, but that's because I only started riding again 6 months ago after being off a bike for over 20 years so still getting used to things. So far just using my bikes to commute to/from work a mile away. Hopefully this year I can start riding more. I miss my younger days when I could (and loved) riding rough trails for dozens of miles on a mountain bike (and I still have that mountain bike, 30 years old now and still works great, but riding it on roads is like pushing a boulder).