RobbieTunes

The Ironman was pretty much a train on / race on / century on bike. It was affordable, steel, and well balanced, with excellent quality across the spectrum of models. It was offered for 5 years.



The Ironman did not evolve with the times, but perhaps, if it did....it might be this:

Keeping the flame alive, Adam Eldridge of Stanridge speed decided to make a frame affordable, steel, and well balanced, with excellent quality across the spectrum of models. He's now in his 5th year, I think, with Wraith.

squirtdad

more like steampunk alternative gruppos

DiabloScott

Delta disk brakes!

seedsbelize 

Give it time. Time heals all perfection.

non-fixie 

There's that, of course.

noglider 

In my view, MAFAC went out of business because they didn't update their products frequently enough. People want new stuff, and it's necessary to grab their attention. The trouble is, bike brakes were pretty much perfect already, so MAFAC didn't see the need.

RobbieTunes

jeirvine 

I've wondered whether friction shifting would have persisted had Shimano perfected it's hyperglide cogs before they got into SIS. A 7s HG freewheel with Simplex or Doppler retrofriction DT shifters is pretty much unbeatable.

seypat

Not C & V related, but,........

Since we already have some wireless electronics on the bike...and we evidently have disc brakes that require very little physical pressure needed,....

Why can't the shifters and brake levers be eliminated completely? Replace them with handlebars embedded with sensory pads or something similar. Maybe a thumb pad for braking and a couple of finger pads for shifting? Maybe a strip that runs the entire length of the bar that controls both? Maybe a "smart" handlebar. The technology is there. It will come in the future.

masi61

+1 to that. Those of us in the "classic and vintage" category often times are rabid collectors. I know I am. But we're often damn good bike riders. Being a bit iconoclastic in our choices makes it kind of fun to make these subtle parts substitutions . We're mechanically inclined enough to know what it takes to execute/implement the build we're setting out to implement. I'm from the birth place of the Wright Brothers and their bike shop! We're innovators, its in our blood. Steam-punk, YES! If I could use more brass parts, titanium parts, brushed unpainted, stainless, chrome plated - all that stuff tastefully done but functional. We've seen it done and note its absence today. So we set out to set the record straight.

I'm just waiting to set my next wheel build into motion using Winner hubs. Not SunTour Winner but Winner (manufacturing?) from California. These odd needle bearing, zero backlash hubs have an 8 speed Dura Ace Uniglide freehub body. They are very high quality. The few reviews of these that I have seen on-line, are negative. They says they can't handle riding in the rain and that the clever zero backlash roller bearing freehub "pawl-less" design isn't durable. Odd thing is - I still want to try it out for myself. I'd love to order some Araya Super Aero polished aero profile rims from Japan to put an exclamation point on the wheel build.

RobbieTunes

noglider 

@seypat, how are you imagining the brake actuation? We need to modulate the brakes, so are you imagining finger pressure will indicate the amount of braking needed?

We already have electronic shifting, so is your proposal to have it accessible over a greater area of the bar?

CliffordK

I've wondered about that. I friction shift 9-speed, and it works fine. I also friction shift 11-speed on one bike. Again, no major issues (other than cable pull issues that I'm still dealing with).

In fact, in some senses, friction works better than indexed as one naturally selects the gear and adjusts as needed.

CliffordK

Microshift seems to be picking up the slack in a few places that Shimano is dropping the ball.

Perhaps it would be worth sending them a note.

As mentioned below, I have have vintage 9-speed shifters in use on one bike. It seems like just about anywhere I throw the lever, I'm in gear. I'm quite pleased with the ease of use.

I've been also experimenting 11s using bar end shifters (+ M8000 RD). I had some cable pull issues with my Suntour shifters. So, I have been using a right Shimano really springy shifter. It does reasonably well, except it uses the full range of motion, and is too springy on the high end, and not springy enough on the low end.

Anyway, friction will work with the 11s. The MTB derailleurs take a little extra cable pull which may be a good thing, but is hard for some of the vintage levers.

seypat

I didn't say that would be positive for my riding experience. It would be a big negative for me. I'm just saying that is the direction the industry is going.

seypat

Yes, as much as I hate to say it. I don't think it would take long to adjust/get used to it. Think about this. You get off you bike with hand brake levers and go for a ride in your car with foot brake levers, clutch and gas pedal. You never skip a beat. Then you get out of your car and hop onto your motorcycle. That vehicle has both foot/hand brake levers, a hand clutch and a hand twist gas throttle. The shifting between the 3 also is different. Yet people can do all with ease. I don't think it would take long to get used to it.

For me, it would eliminate a lot of the enjoyment from the riding experience. It would not be something I would use. But, I think the industry is moving in that direction.

Darth Lefty 

RobbieTunes

Servo, and ABS, powered by the front wheel dyno?


The "fly by wire" of birds like the F16 is, of course, now "old," but there are joysticks out there that don't actually move, instead responding to pressure, like any laptop mouse pad. I supposed this could be made to work. But heck, if going that far, just program a helmet with heads-up display and use a power meter/cadence sensor/biometrics to set automatic shift points and speed/altitude sensors to modulate braking.

All customized per the rider. Solving Pat's climbing issues.

But wait, since it can be optimized for one rider, it can be predicted for others, and tactically programmed in real time. Which is about where they are now, with Bluetooth shifting controlled by a pad in the team car, based on what software has predicted other riders are capable of doing. A lot of riders simply ride and do what is told via their earpieces. Perhaps they'll just be asked to pedal, and be considered an engine on a bike, to be controlled like any RC car.

Teams have a lot of statistical data on what other riders can do, analyzed vs. the data on what their riders can do, and orchestrated in the team car.

And a chimp wins the TdF. Beating other chimps.

RobbieTunes

Hey, this is a family forum.

seypat

Dang auto correct.

seypat

I forgot about ABS. That should be here soon. As for the rest of your quote, I sadly agree. Riders will become hamsters on a spinning wheel controlled by the team car. Or chimps as you say. Or rented mules, whatever beast of burden comes to mind. Maybe that "dancing chicken" at the traveling carnivals back in the day.

The only thing that will solve my climbing issues would be an E-bike.

noglider 

But braking requires modulation of pressure. It's not an on-off function.

seypat

Elecronic controls/functions are replacing mechanical functions in all kinds of areas. Medical, military, etc. etc. The video game industry now designs/tests a lot of Military applications. Driving a tank or flying a drone is just like playing a video game. Here is a somewhat humorous example.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/18/1...box-controller

https://medicalfuturist.com/the-tech...ure-of-surgery

seypat

Speaking of discontinued/dying product lines, my opinion is that the industry will move back to 3 rings in front/less cogs in the back eventually. If, if, electronic shifting becomes good/fast enough where the system/computer takes over the shifting of the FD, then I think we will see 3 or 4 ring cranks with 6-9 cogs in back. If the rider is not shifting the FD anymore, why do they care how many gears are in each place? If there is no weight penalty, that is no longer an important issue. The industry could go back to a rear spacing in the 115/120 range and have plenty of future room for disc guards/ABS, etc, etc. The current rear spacing issues are holding back frame evolution now.

RobbieTunes

CVT is now becoming fairly common for cars, after a lot of attempts, products, etc over the last 80 years.

Perhaps the synergy of all this technology, biometrics plus CVT, power meters, sensors, etc, will develop the automatic bike. You set your power/cadence, and ride. The bike shifts when it senses that changes need to happen.

I was once a guinea pig on a treadmill, in a human performance laboratory. After fairly controlled benchmarks were set (VO2), the computer was set to run me at 80% VO2 Max until I dropped. Not sure how that worked, but if I got into a groove, the computer both sped up and raised the treadmill, and if I had a problem, it lowered and slowed it down. It was perceptible, but hey, it was 1986. 30 years later, no doubt the same can be done with cycling, at a much more precise and consistent level.