Raleigh Hate
#26
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You're kidding! ROTFL - have you built a Gazelle circa 1972. (This was after Raleigh bought Gazelle) I don't remember the particulars, but I think a shim behind the freewheel was required, and the spacers between the chainwheels had to be replaced. I could go on, but most of it's been covered all ready.
#27
~>~
Well designed for the USA equivalent of the well established French Randonneur tradition they were straight, well finished and extremely pleasant riding machines for long distances at pace on indifferent surfaces with a light load.
Nice kit.
-Bandera
#28
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No doubt, the Motos of the Boom Era were well packed for International shipment in short-pack front-wheel-off sturdy shipping boxes to survive delivery. What a concept? QC/QA were never (sorta) a problem.
Well designed for the USA equivalent of the well established French Randonneur tradition they were straight, well finished and extremely pleasant riding machines for long distances at pace on indifferent surfaces with a light load.
Nice kit.
-Bandera
Well designed for the USA equivalent of the well established French Randonneur tradition they were straight, well finished and extremely pleasant riding machines for long distances at pace on indifferent surfaces with a light load.
Nice kit.
-Bandera
Thank Ben Lawee for all that. He got stiffed by Raleigh (He'd been the West Coast distributor for Raleigh.) He had an excellent eye.
#29
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Yup, totally sucky lug work, really need to take a file to it.
#30
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Albert Finney's first movie, Saturday Night and Sunday Morning
He was a machinist on Raleigh Road, cranking out bottom bracket spindles
He was a machinist on Raleigh Road, cranking out bottom bracket spindles
#31
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Raleigh finish work can absolutely be casual.
Raleigh International 1971 by djk762, on Flickr
But the Internationals can be built up to take you far and wide in comfort and control.
Raleigh International by djk762, on Flickr
Raleigh International 1971 by djk762, on Flickr
But the Internationals can be built up to take you far and wide in comfort and control.
Raleigh International by djk762, on Flickr
#32
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I think what the early 70's Raleighs prove to me is that a lugged, steel frame is extremely durable, forgiving of manufacturing sins, and just a plain, sweet ride with relaxed geometries.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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#33
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For people who actually ride their bikes rather than just yacking about them on the internets, Raleigh made a huge range of bikes over 100 years. I love my 1950 Lenton Tourist, my '71 International, and my '84 Gran Course: three completely different bicycles that I have used for very different purposes.
#34
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By the 1970s, the bean counters knew that mass bicycle production was no longer to be in places like Nottingham or Chicago. There was no point in retooling these facilities or worrying about employee relations or quality control since they were phasing in offshore production. While this was terrible for the workers, us lovers of old fashioned bikes have the benefit of their production of what are essentially beautiful 1930s bikes all through the 70s when they should have been phased out years earlier. True, the 70s Raleighs do sometimes have issues, but nothing that can't be repaired.
#35
Semper Fi
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I can only speak to the two 70s Raleighs I owned, and absolutely loved. In 1979 I purchased a 79 Super Course and an NOS 74 International. I got a sum of money from my former employer, for vacation time that was unused, when I left to finish college, my senior year. Both were used for commuting to school daily, and for weekend rides with our club at that time. Neither one gave me any trouble, and no fit and finish problems were ever noted. I learned a good deal about bicycle maintenance and repairs by keeping both bikes pristine, and I enjoyed the many miles they both got.
I suppose it must have been our LBS/Raleigh dealer, a purely family business (as was our Schwinn dealership,) and their care in setting up each bicycle as it was assembled. I wasn't party to that, yet (eventually I worked part time doing bicycle assembly for them,) but I did get to observe their oldest son doing the assembly many times, he did an excellent job of carefully assembling bikes, he took nothing for granted. Perhaps his care caught any fit or finish errors, but I did not hear any customer complain.
I don't doubt the posts here about the poor work and details of this time period, I just didn't experience it. I owned both Schwinns and Raleighs during this time, both were dependable, well made lines, in my experience. YMMV.
Bill
I suppose it must have been our LBS/Raleigh dealer, a purely family business (as was our Schwinn dealership,) and their care in setting up each bicycle as it was assembled. I wasn't party to that, yet (eventually I worked part time doing bicycle assembly for them,) but I did get to observe their oldest son doing the assembly many times, he did an excellent job of carefully assembling bikes, he took nothing for granted. Perhaps his care caught any fit or finish errors, but I did not hear any customer complain.
I don't doubt the posts here about the poor work and details of this time period, I just didn't experience it. I owned both Schwinns and Raleighs during this time, both were dependable, well made lines, in my experience. YMMV.
Bill
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977
I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
Last edited by qcpmsame; 08-15-16 at 07:30 PM.
#36
incazzare.
I don't know if they're "revered," but I've had a few of the midrange to higher end Carlton built Raleighs, and they all rode very well. They also just exude "Englishness" if you're into that sort of thing.
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1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
#37
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#38
Friendship is Magic
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...all of these are pretty solid riders now. All of them required some frame and fork alignment when I got them. Were they sold that way, or did the alignment problems happen over the years ? Beats me.
I think of these bikes like the cars I drove in the 70's and 80's. They were serviceable transportation as sold originally, and a good platform for some tinkering if you were into mechanical stuff and bicycling.
I think of these bikes like the cars I drove in the 70's and 80's. They were serviceable transportation as sold originally, and a good platform for some tinkering if you were into mechanical stuff and bicycling.
#40
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I loved my Raleigh Record in the early 70s and cheap though it may have been, it did provide many miles of faithful service. Left it behind when I went out to find my place in the world and didn't ride for the next 30+ years. When I started riding again I wanted an older Raleigh and found an 81 Team Pro at a local shop. Reynolds 753 from the SBDU shop. I really love the ride.
So I've got a soft spot for the brand. (But yeah, they did sell a lot of crap under that name over the years.)
So I've got a soft spot for the brand. (But yeah, they did sell a lot of crap under that name over the years.)
#41
Get off my lawn!
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Yes is it. I also have Calton built GS with equally fine workmanship, both lovely riding frames.
#42
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My first road bike was a 1980 Super Course 12 that had mostly original components when I purchased it about a decade ago. I have stripped it down to almost bare metal and restored it once and plan to do so again along more authentic lines. It was made in the Carlton factory from double-butted 531 tubing, and despite being a couple cm too large for me (63cm c-c) it was always a sweet riding bicycle. I can't say that I've noticed any flaws in the workmanship and will give it a careful look over the next time I strip it down.
#43
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re: Raleigh Hate
You are mostly right. I worked in shops from 1980 - 1993. The Carlton frames, such as Gran Sport, Competition, Comp GS, International, and Pro, were well made and beautiful. But the Record and Grand Prix were far worse than what you could buy from Taiwan at that time, and cost far more. Parallel dropouts?? Hah!!! But I've always had fond memories of Raleigh, in 1970 I went from a Schwinn Varsity to a Raleigh Carlton made in the sixties that apparently pre-dated the Super Course. Quite the improvement, eh???
#44
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Nothing but love
If there were ever any alignment issues, they were taken care of before I bought it; sometime during the first 40 years of this bike's life
Just don't examine the joins too closely
If there were ever any alignment issues, they were taken care of before I bought it; sometime during the first 40 years of this bike's life
Just don't examine the joins too closely
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● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
Last edited by Lascauxcaveman; 08-15-16 at 10:27 PM.
#45
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#46
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I had an 81 Super Course 12 and it was pretty sloppily put together. Of course, I was blissfully unaware of this until I turned up at my first race and saw true examples of high-quality finishing
Funny, I was just talking about this subject with a forumite yesterday afternoon. And I still think the Team bikes are exquisite - because they are.
DD
Funny, I was just talking about this subject with a forumite yesterday afternoon. And I still think the Team bikes are exquisite - because they are.
DD
#47
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I have 6 Raleighs , my first was a Gazelle built 74 Grand Prix, nice comfortable ride. I also have a 76 Grand Prix and a 73, 77 & 78 Super Courses. And a unknown Raleigh record.
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#48
over the hill
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My first bike was a 60's LTD 3 speed-dependable and shiney Hence the reverence. Maybe 'boomers' are just a different sort.
#49
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The Raleighs that we love and some apparently love to hate were the world's benchmark production bikes. Considering the size and distribution of their production, it was a pretty good feat. Japanese bikes at that time were heavier and carried an inferior cloud with them. Were top-line Motobecane better than top-line Raleigh? Not really - bottom line? Not really. Japanese components were moving ahead then, but Euro was cool. It wasn't until about 1976 that Japan-made bikes really were better and another few years for people to accept it. Fuji S10 just wasn't Raleigh.
#50
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I don't hate Raleigh bicycles but I do challenge the company that builds them. To me, and I have seen a lot of Raleighs, the represent the poorest workmanship that I have run across. Would I ever buy a vintage Raleigh? It would have to be pretty inexpensive and close to top of the line.
That said, even this close to top dog from the Raleigh kennel, sported questionable workmanship. A close look at the International's chrome head tube lugs reveals file marks and rough lug edges - not the sort of thing one would expect from a high end road bicycle. That last comment, of course, is my opinion...
Sadly, the same poor workmanship ran rampant with the lower end models. Nope, no longer interested in a Raleigh although some later model, the Asian examples from the eighties did display better workmanship quality. Gotta hand it to those robots.
In all fairness, though, the sloppy workmanship seemed to be common on other brands also, however; generally, top dogs from other makers did offer more cosmetic appeal.
That said, even this close to top dog from the Raleigh kennel, sported questionable workmanship. A close look at the International's chrome head tube lugs reveals file marks and rough lug edges - not the sort of thing one would expect from a high end road bicycle. That last comment, of course, is my opinion...
Sadly, the same poor workmanship ran rampant with the lower end models. Nope, no longer interested in a Raleigh although some later model, the Asian examples from the eighties did display better workmanship quality. Gotta hand it to those robots.
In all fairness, though, the sloppy workmanship seemed to be common on other brands also, however; generally, top dogs from other makers did offer more cosmetic appeal.
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"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
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