Rob_E

I have an old Sears Tote-Cycle that splits in two. Because it splits in two, there are no lines that run from the back half of the bike to the front half. The rear wheel has only a coaster brake, and the 3-speed shifter is mounted on the seat tube.

The coaster brake isn't that great, and I may be replacing that hub anyhow, leaving me with no rear brakes, so I'm going to be beefing up my stopping power in the front. First step is to replace the warped, old, steel wheel with something straight with good, grippable machined walls for the caliper brakes to grab on to. But I was also considering adding a drum brake hub, to give me an additional stopping option, but I'm not sure if there's any actual benefit to having two brakes on one wheel. Any thoughts?

And if I only go with one brake, which is better for a 20" wheel? I've heard on a small tire drum brakes can be quite effective, and certainly my old caliper brakes could use improvement, but I expect a lot of that will be addressed with new wheels and new brake pads.

Jeff Wills

You're correct on all your points. The only downside to having two brakes on one wheel is that it can be dicey trying to stop with a flat tire on that wheel. Nevertheless, this is done on many racing tricycles:
https://www.tricycleassociation.org.u...d428b13799d24c

BikeManDan

Seems like serious overkill
One working brake per wheel is plenty. Drum brakes work pretty damn well

alecw35

My mum had a Pashley trike that had a hub brake and a rim brake.

Is common on trikes.
Think tandems did it too.

dont know how it would work on a short and lighter bike

Rob_E

It may be overkill, but we're not really talking about two brakes per wheel. I'm considering two brakes on the front and no brakes on the back. The back can really only take a coaster brake. The original coaster brake didn't do a whole lot for me, and some rear hubs I'm considering have no brake at all.

Your point about stopping with a flat is a good one, Jeff, and something I'll definitely keep in mind if I go that route.

Knowing that it's been done on other bikes is good, too. That means it's feasible, and that it probably has some value for stopping purposes, or it wouldn't have been done. And I'm guessing with trikes it was for the same reason I'd like to do it: it's easier than trying to get brake on the rear.

When they go this route on tandems, do the front brakes then become the only brakes? Or is it done as a supplement to a normal, one brake per wheel system?

Thanks for you help, y'all. I'm getting a more clear picture of the pitfalls of this, but I'm also seeing where it might be the solution to my problem.

ericthered

It seems to me that if a brake is effective, it can ussually lock up a tire into a skid. Once skidding a second brake on the same wheel is useless. The limiting factor seems to be road to wheel contact, not brake to wheel. The modulation of the brakes force might be odd as well. A would also think a 20" wheel would be easier to lock up since it has a shorter moment arm.
Eric

Rob_E

That's one of the main reasons I was wondering if there was any value in it: a stopped tire can't actually be stopped twice. But I've heard (although not tried) that the front tire is unlikely to lock up. So if one brake is unlikely to bring the tire to a full stop, a second brake might have some function in increasing the stopping power. A 2nd brake applied to an already skidding tire wouldn't be useful, nor would I think a skidding tire is desirable, but the ability to bring your front tire to a complete stop may result in faster braking. Or it seems it may lead to you taking a header over the handlebars. Decisions, decisions.

Perhaps, even though it would cost more in the long run, the safest thing to do is get a 3-speed coaster brake and, for a while, use it in conjunction with a rim and drum front bake set-up. If I decide I can't live without the coaster brake, I'll know not to waste my time looking at better IGH options for the rear hub. If I find that the coaster brake really isn't helping me out, I can swap it out for 8 speeds. Means potentially buying and lacing two rear hubs, which I'd rather not do, but I guess safety deserves some consideration.

Joshua A.C. New

The front will lock on sand, ice, or mud. Then you're boned.

Might I suggest at least making the back wheel fixed? Or replacing it with another coaster?

I use my front brake a lot, but I've been happy to have a back brake when banking on what turned out to be an unsatisfactory surface.

da07079

On tandems, it is not unusual to have a supplemental drum brake on the rear wheel. This brake (sometimes called a "drag brake") does not add stopping power, but can be continuously applied on downhills to slow the bike or prevent the accumulation of unmanagable speed without overheating the rim and brakes (potentially causing loss of braking or blowouts).

As Sheldon Brown says:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tandem-brakes.html

EricJ

Highly dependent on tire and road surface. It's likely with good brakes.

If that were true, there would be no need for ABS brakes on aircraft, autos and motorcycles which are designed to prevent skidding by not allowing the wheel to completely stop. A skidding tire, by definition, is stopped and not braking at all!

I would work on having one effective front brake that can be modulated by hand in the same way that ABS brakes are modulated automatically. Then rebuilding the rear coaster brake for those conditions when a front lockup (very dangerous) is possible (loose surfaces).

Eric

Rob_E

Yeah, I'm leaning towards getting another coaster hub. I like my gears, so I don't think I want to go fixed, although I have considered this as a solution to my lack of a rear brake. The main reason for not going with another coaster brake is that a coaster brake maximized my gears at 3. I haven't found an 8 or 5 speed with a coaster brake, or at least not one that fits my rear spacing. But three speeds and being able to stop may turn out better in the long run than 8 speeds and landing on my head. ;-)

BikeGarage

OP, what you may want is a rear brake and a cable splitter that will allow you to take your bike apart. Here is a link to the device.

Rob_E

That is perfect! It may not solve my problem, but it certainly expands my options. Now I can expand my search to include rear hubs with drum brakes. I believe most of those will also run a little wider than my available rear spacing, but some may fit, and I'll still be able to split the bike for transport. Thanks for the tip!

Rob_E

Okay, y'all have convinced me that a rear brake is not something I should do without if I don't have to, and I don't have to. The only two hubs that seem to both fit my spacing and have an integrated brake are Sturmey Archer 3-speed and 5-speed hubs. The three speed comes in a coaster brake model, eliminating the need to run a brake line where a brake line was not intended to run. The five speed model is available with a drum brake and is 3 times the cost of the three speed. Plus I'd have to run cable, get an extra brake lever, and use the nifty Bike Friday brake cable splitter, so when it all gets added up, I'm probably paying close to $200 for a five speed vs. just over $50 for a three speed. I guess two extra gears don't really merit the extra money and the extra hassle. This is really the info I needed, and I thank you all for providing the input to get me here.

sivat

Is there no spot to mount a rim brake on the rear wheel using a cable splitter?

Rob_E

I wouldn't say it would be impossible. If I find that I enjoy riding the bike a lot, but can't stand the 3 or 5 gear range, I may give that a shot, but there really isn't a place designed for a rim brake to be mounted. There is one cross piece that acts as a fender mount. It might be possible to repurpose that and make it a caliper brake mount, but it's a little on the thin side as it is, and I'd have to drill a hole into it, making it weaker. Maybe it's stronger than I give it credit for, but it does get into modifying the frame some, which I'm trying to avoid.
But it could happen in the future if I find I really want the extra gearing. I suppose I could also put a front deraileur on there and get a few more gearing options that way, but again I'd probably be running lines across the split in the frame. As it is, the bike is nice and simple. Two wing nuts split it in half and the gearing, though limited, is straight-forward. I was hoping to increase the gearing without losing the simplicity of the bike, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, and I'm okay with that. And, since I'm not making any permanent changes to the bike at this point, if I end up not being okay with that, I can always revisit some other potential solutions, like a derailleur, a rear caliper brake, or widening the rear dropouts to accommodate a wider, drum brake hub.