hshearer

Picture a cycle-fanatic (me) and her bike-ambivalent husband. Can we make a tandem work for us? Or is it a recipe for disaster? Here's where we're at:

Me:
-basically hugely bike-obsessed... I zoom around at top speed, I race, tour, I'm car-free, and cover about 10000 miles a year. However, I also love sharing the joys of cycling with less ambitious cyclists, so I do have it in me to be patient.

My husband:
-will use clipless on the trainer, not in traffic
-has fantastic balance
-has decent cadence (I'd estimate 70-80, mine is about 95)
-needs to develop his fitness (I'm a lot faster than he is, and I'm often happily chatting away at what feels like a low effort until I realize he's he's panting and feeling the burn)
-needs to become more comfortable with bike speeds over 30 km/h (he worries he'll crash). Oh, the good hills and tailwinds he has missed!
-is good about biking in traffic
-likes to coast. I only like to coast if I'm spun out on a good hill.
-is interested in becoming more fit, and is usually easily convinced to do short errands by bike
-thinks 5 miles (round trip) is a long bike ride, but has been motivated enough to go as far as 20 miles non-stop.
-will only wear bike shorts if he wears cargo shorts over top.


I've been thinking about a tandem for a long time, since it would let us travel closer to the speeds and distances I like, while allowing the level of effort (for him) that he likes, thus expanding our cycling world. I assume it's also easier to have a conversation on a tandem? We're about the same height, and I'm very strong, so I don't mind being the captain. I would forsee using it to extend the range of the bike errands we run (visiting friends up to 10 miles away, for example) and for occasional leisure rides. He's not interested enough in cycling (yet?) that it would be used for club rides or touring.

Would a tandem work for us, or would it be better to hold off until our skills are a little more closely aligned? Is a tandem (with clipless pedals) practical in stop-go situations if the stoker is still learning how to use clipless?

TandemGeek

Only one way to know for sure....

Seriously, that's the truth. From what you describe, there are definitely some issues to be resolve, not the least of which is who captains. From what you describe, you'd be bit of a back-seat driver and that's never good. Would your husband be willing to stoke? I actually think it's pretty cool when we happen upon a non-conventional tandem team where the gal's driving... in fact, we had just such a couple on our ride this past Sunday. They were awesome and we all had a grand time.

So, if you can find a tandem that you can borrow (thankfully, if you're the same size you can try it both ways), you'll know in about two days if there's a tandem in your future. However, you definitely want to give it a try on two separate days, both ways on each day. The first day is all about learning and getting some level of experience and comfort on the bike. The second day will actuallly let you figure out what's working and what's not.

hshearer

I'd TOTALLY be a back seat driver

No question that I'd want to be the captain at this point, but he's getting better with every ride. Good coaching, of course. I'd trust him enough to let him drive if he wanted to, though. I guess the question there is whether he feels better to be in control and to know when a bump, shift, turn, or brake is upcoming, or whether he feels better if all he has to do is trust me to call them and just go for the ride.

It wouldn't have occurred to me that maybe he'd prefer to drive, but that's a good thought to try both ways. As you say, we won't know 'til we try. Just wondering if there's hope... it sounds like there might be?

Unfortunately, I don't have any friends with a tandem, and I don't think any of the LBSs rent them out (we aren't exactly a big tourism center). If I rented one someday, I'm hoping my impression of tandeming won't be coloured by the quality of the rental (I'm assuming it will be fairly low-end and set up for casual riders on vacation).

vtrich

I was in the exact reverse position several years ago,...probably like most of the tandem teams here.
We tried a basic beach cruiser while on vacation. I thought that was a perfect introduction. Ya go slow,
and you don't go very far. You stop to have ice cream but still, you are on the tandem together and
you have to deal with the communication issues at the core of tandeming. Sounds like you guys have
a pretty good relationship, so I'd guess you'd both enjoy it.

Good Luck
Rich

WebsterBikeMan

For many on this list, that'll require some work. If I had a dollar for each time someone has described the reverse situation, I could get a new wheel-set.
Absolutely. Only in heavy traffic is it a problem, and it would be impossible on a pair of singles.
As far as I can tell there are two reasons why captains are usually the male of the team.

1) the male is so much larger that the bike can't be made to fit the other way around (hard to mount the stoker stem above the captain's saddle...). Also, it can be hard to hold the bike up while a much heavier partner gets into position, but that's a matter of strength and experience - it can be, and is done!
2) ego, or control issues, on the part of the guy.

Outside of that the primary considerations of who captains - like in your case - would be if one partner has significantly more experience and skill at bike handling (esp. in traffic), or if one is substantially stronger (in the legs) than the other. If they are equal in size and skill, the stronger rider can stoke, and produce a slightly more efficient power transfer to the drive train. Or so they say - I've not analysed it to death. The stoker needs to be able to trust the captain. If he is more likely to trust you than you him, then you are better off as captain. And people who know about the stronger of two similar sized riders taking the back will just assume he's stronger. Nobody need be the wiser
The majority of stokers clip in while the captain holds the bike, and remains clipped in until the end of the ride, never putting a foot down at a stop. Clipless pedals are (nearly) a non-issue for the stoker if you use that approach.

hshearer

Thanks for the great advice! I was hoping to hear that the stoker doesn't usually have to unclip. This could actually be a nice way for my husband to practice using clipless in the real world. I was also thinking that the stoker might have it a little easier in terms of being able to stretch and look around... not that we're doing any epic journeys, but I imagine his neck, hands, and shoulders are just as unaccustomed to bikes as his legs.

"And people who know about the stronger of two similar sized riders taking the back will just assume he's stronger" I'll let him know that! He doesn't have any ego issues about letting me drive, though, and I'm sure he'll just say he prefers the view if anyone asks!

hshearer

A plan is beginning to take shape in my head. My family lives in tourist-dense Ottawa, so the next time we visit, I'm going to propose a tandem rental. We'll cruise the ample, beautiful MUPs along the river, and tour the market, stopping for a rest at a patio bar. Yes, this could work out nicely. He'll be having fun before he even knows what's happened

WebsterBikeMan

So, people aren't beating a path to the Diefenbaker Centre? And I guess the Canadian Orienteering Championships a couple of years ago didn't put the UofS campus on the map...
Interestingly, I have seen some pretty decent rental tandems. There is a place in Ottawa that has two different models, one that ought to be good enough for the purposes you have in mind (actually some would say either would be). Last time I was in Banff and Lake Louise the folks renting tandems there had "real" bikes. I guess anyone not sufficiently hard core to insist on such a bike probably doesn't really want to be riding there anyhow.

Our first tandem experience was riding from Lake Louise to Jasper on a rental. Amazingly, it worked for us, but I can't say I'd recommend it.

I don't know that you need two days worth. The MOST important question is how is your relationship, and do you communicate well? They say a tandem will take your relationship where its going twice as fast.

WebsterBikeMan

With that additional information, RentABike.ca in Ottawa has/had a Burley Rivazza for rent/sale. Presumably for rent until sold. Failing that they definitely have a couple of KHS Alite's in two different sizes. Given the kind of riding you have in mind, there are many who would recommend the KHS as a good choice - it's an entry level bike, but not department-store grade. Given your description of yourself, you may find it hard not to ride something further up-scale.

Retro Grouch 

Depends.

I've heard it said that, whichever way your relationship is headed, a tandem will get you there quicker.

TandemGeek

Good grief; you're only out from under snow for what, 1/2 the year at best and even then isn't it pretty darn cold for another 2 - 4 of those months when it's not iced over????

WebsterBikeMan

It may come as some surprise, but Saskatoon, unlike Atlanta, has this innovation called "snow removal". And what's more, it's pretty dry in those parts, being shadowed by the rockies. So while they are further north than we in upstate NY, the average snowfall is less than half of ours (our quantity in inches is almost as high as theirs in cm). It's cold, 'but it's a dry cold'. I don't know I could ride in 'a dry' -40, but perhaps with enough clothing...

I'll admit that I'm not car-free, but I'm seriously considering getting a 'winter bike' so I won't be limited to dry roads. For the cost of keeping one of our cars on the road for just one year, I could get a pretty nice bike.

TandemGeek

That's really what I was poking on...

There are some ADV Rider, BMWMOA and BMWST forum members who live up that way and talk about the length of their motorcycle riding season and "challenges" with the cold weather. Stuff simply freezes when the air is that cold.

From YouTube: A man throws boiling water into the air in Saskatchewan during a typical mid-winter, -40c day.


Yeah, there's a bit of 'trick' to it, i.e., you must use boiling water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect

zonatandem

Bet there are not a bunch of tandems in all of Saskatchewan?!
Rent one locally (if that'spossible) or wait till you visit Ottawa.
The only very dedicated Canadian tandemists we've met (way back in the late 70s) were David and Brenda Vandevelde (who are still riding and sell tandems) in Mississsauga, ON.
vandervelde@sypatico.ca (905)824-9364.
You've got the right spirit. . . go for it!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

DCwom

Given your "passion" for riding, I think a tandem will be big compromise for you, so I wouldn't expect it to be more than a opportunity for spending time together and not a replacement for your time on a single. With that said you definitely need to try a tandem for a day or two to see if it will work, otherwise you may end up with a low mileage tandem hanging in the garage.

Retro Grouch 

On the other hand, it's hard for two people who have different physical abilities to ride together on single bikes - one tends to feel like they're not doing anything and the other feels like they're chasing all day. A tandem equals that out.

I was semi-serious when I made the comment about which way your relationship is headed. If your primary goal is to spend some quailty time together, a tandem can be a love machine. If you focus on your partner's differences, a tandem will provide a new resentment to build on.

Onegun

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet .... do be aware that a tandem exists that ALLOWS him to coast while you continue pedaling. See daVinci tandems.

Good luck with it all!

mchell

+1 to Zonatandem, again. Check out the Vandevelde's website. MBS Tandems. We've been dealing with this couple since we bought our tandem from them 7 years ago. Brenda stokes when she rides with her husband, but I've seen her captain when she rides with her grown family. If you can link up with Brenda on the phone, you will have a wonderful, informative conversation. They also have tandems, a good variety, to "test-ride". Mike

WebsterBikeMan

Then again, Ottawa to MBS is a good five hours drive. Could be six if you cross Toronto at the wrong time. Kinda like Tucson to Palm Springs, only passing through Toronto is not in the same league as passing through Phoenix. And if you're used to Saskatoon, just the Toronto part will feel like 3 hours, even if you're lucky enough to get across in 1 1/2 to 2.

I'm assuming you fly to Ottawa. If you're driving, via North Bay, the detour is maybe 8 hours, rather than 10-12. If you'd normally go south of Lake Superior, no detour to speak of.

JTGraphics

If he lets you drive him around in a car he more than likely would let you Captain, everyone has given you great advice, hope it works out for you.

merlinextraligh

What are your respective weights? IMHO, there's a substantial case for the heavier rider to be up front, particularly if that rider has more upper body strength.

In our case I'm over 200lbs, and my wife is around 130. We work pretty well as a team, but on those occassions where we're not both on the same page, and tuned in to the exigencies of the moment, I, as Captain can make the bike go where it needs to by shear force.

Conversely when we've tried it with her in front, any lack of coordination is a much bigger problem, because she cannot overpower me.

If you're both around the same size and upper body strength, the more experienced cyclist should be in front. But if there's a big weight upper body strength descrepency, a less experienced, but heavier stoker in the back may not work so well.

zonatandem

Have ridden with many stokers and the biggest guy I had ever stoke for me was well over 250 lbs with me as captain at a full 135 lbs.
As long as he did not attempt to do the hula back there, we were fine!
However, my stoker Kay, at 112 lbs, can make the tandem veer in the direction she wants to go . . .
Riding in tandem is a question of proper communication and cooperation.
Peda lon!
Rudy/zonatandem

hshearer

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm picturing a tandem as a replacement for the family car on some local trips... a chance to go somewhere together using my favourite mode of transportation, but without my husband working harder than he wants to. I'm so accustomed to towing my trailer on a bike with studded tires that we could even install some footrests for him, and I honestly wouldn't care... bike=happy. If I'm lucky, recreational cycling might even catch on with him, and he'll join me once in a while for those rides, too. The ?good? news is that I slightly outweigh him, so me as captain shouldn't be a problem, weight-wise (he's one of those guys who eats nothing but fast food and has about 5% body fat ).

Yes, it's a dry cold... we only had one major snowfall this winter, and probably not much more than a foot of snow in total all winter. I was able to do recreational trail rides into January, and it's been an early spring, so I'm off to do my first group road ride of the season in a few hours! So, that's about 8 weeks without a recreational ride, just long enough to get excited to start up again! Cold is a lot easier to deal with than wet, I think.

BobKendallGB

I hope it's OK if I kind of side track this thread. I'm in a similar situation, except I'm the husband. I love to ride and I ride about 20 miles several times/week. My wife has a nice Cannondale but only rides about once every 2-3 months. She did ride the 72-mile ride around Lake Tahoe a few years ago so she's not a novice, but as you can guess our fitness level is not the same. So I'm exploring the idea of a tandem.

We borrowed a tandem from friends years ago and nearly got a divorce in the first 10 minutes. I felt every wiggle she did and didn't know how to interpret it and she was scared not to be in control (I was being careful, I promise). So my question is - what advice can anyone offer to get over these problems. Are there standard communications that need to take place between the captain and the stoker, such as 'turning left', 'braking', etc? It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the stoker doesn''t unclip when stopping - that's a great tidbit that I wouldn't have guessed. Any other such suggestions?

Thanks,
Bob

mickjordan

Sounds like you are like my wife and I except reversed in your relative abilities. We chose a da Vinci with independent coasting and it works great for us. I do 2/3 of the work and she coasts a lot. Fine by me, as we'd never be able to ride together any other way. She also has the reversable SPD pedals so that clipping in is optional.