bubbagrannygear

My ride is about 9 miles each way through suburban subdivisions and connector roads with light traffic in the mornings and heavy at night. The connector roads have dark spots with rough patches that are nice to see and avoid. I have been getting by with a 1/2 watt planet bike superflash in the mornings which are already dark but when I loose the evening light I want a light to see rather than just be seen. Problem is I have no frame of reference for how much light I need.

I am looking at the cygolite mitycross 350 which has an external rechargable battery and the mitycross cygolite milllion 200 which is attractive to me because it has an internal rechargable battery so it seems less of a hassel to put on and take off.

1) does anyone have any experience with either of these lights ?

2) how many lumen do I need to see ? (Does this include seeing the road in the face of an oncomming car headlight)

Thanks

ItsJustMe

If you only need to see, I've found that the more ambient light, the more light you need to see. When I'm riding in rural areas where it's pitch dark, assuming pavement and not gravel, I hardly need anything to see.

When I get into town where there is ambient light that messes up my night vision, I need a lot more light to see in the pools of dark between street lights. Probably 200, though I'd prefer more.

If you really want to actually be able to see the road with car headlights shining in your eyes, at least 500 lumens IMO, probably more. I like a P7 light in high mode in that situation, though even that is sketchy due to the glare, especially if the idiot has his high beams on.

itsthewoo

I have a Cygolite 300 (which I love), and the second brightest setting (maybe 250 lumen?) is plenty bright for me.

PaulRivers

In my opinion, the minimum is about 200 lumens. Though it's still messy, because some manufacturers use a "theoretical" lumen output that's 40%-50% of what you actually get on the road (Magicshine), and other use a more realistic number (Dinotte, Light and Motion).

I'm afraid I'm not sure which category the Cygolite falls into.

Doohickie

I have a 250 lumen cygolight and it works great. 200 would probably be okay. (I usually use mine in the 2nd to brightest setting to get more life out of the batter anyway.) It's been plenty bright enough for riding on dark trails and riding in traffic.

no1mad 

Okay, in true interwebz fashion, the one who has next to none experience riding at night, shall now attempt to sound like he knows what he's talking about.

1. Night vision will differ from person to person, so lighting requirements will vary accordingly.
2. Your style of riding is something to consider, not just your environment. A faster rider will need more 'throw' than a slower rider.

Take some time to read what Peter White has to say- lots of good stuff. He's got beam shots of most of the products he carries.

cyccommute 

Not bad, Grasshopper. However, if you are using any kind of light (or exposed to any light for that matter) at night, your night vision is shot anyway. The rod cells in your eyes can detect very low levels of light but are quickly over-saturated in bright(ish) light. And your night vision isn't all that good for seeing details that you need to operate a bike above a couple miles per hour. In the middle of the night, I can navigate through just about anything on foot with only stars for illumination. Turn a light on and then turn it off...only for a second...and you won't be able to navigate anything safely for several minutes. Bike lights, car lights and streetlights all work to over-saturate your rod cells and make your night vision essentially useless.

bubbagrannygear

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I could get by with the 200 but working on the more light required for well lit areas theory, I will probably pull the trigger on the 350. My only concern is the hassle factor of putting on and removing the light and the separate battery. ( l leave the bike at a train station during days so I have to remove everything)

Am I over thinking this ?


itsthewoo (or anyone else)- how long to take off or put on the cygolite 300 or similar ?

thanks again

Richard Cranium

I don't like the design or price of either light. I mean they are cool lights, but I doubt their specs, especially run time as well as the "cross pattern" flood. That's just a waste of light where you don't need it.

But hey get what you think will work for you. There is so much "light" available today -that it is hard to stay in the dark.

PaulRivers

From the cygolite website -

MityCross:


MiliOn -

sevenhills

+1

PaulRivers

Yes.

BUT.

When we start talking about "night vision", a lot of the people in the discussion aren't talking about that very specifical segment of low light that your eyes can see only if there's no ambient light. There's 2 different categories when we're talking about "night vision":
- The specialized term that applies to extremely low light where your eyes will take somewhere between several minutes and 30 minutes to recover, and as you would say even a streetlight will ruin it
- The range (assumably your pupils contract) where you cannot see because you're looking at a bright light, but you within several seconds of that bright light being turned off you can see things in the dark much better again. For example, if car comes around a turn with it's high beams on that shine right in your face, you can't see anything else. But as soon as it passes, you can see a lot more again. This is the night vision that most people are concerned with, because as you say any light bright enough to light up the road with destroy your "night vision".

As soon as we're talking about bike lights, that specialized band of "night vision" is a bit of a red herring - you can't use it if you have any light whatsoever anyways. Most references to night vision, within the context of bike lights and riding at night, really only refer to how much you can see with your regular non-specialized vision at night. I believe a persons ability to see at night does vary from person to person even with their "regular" vision.

bubbagrannygear

Funny - one of the things that attracted me was what appears to be a pretty good lumen per dollar ratio. I'm not interested in the magicshine, but I'm not married to cygolite either, so if you have some suggestions I'm willing to listen.

Richard Cranium

There are number of specs - "things" about each light that run counter to my experience.

As far as the "cross beam" thing, I guess if you are in a turn or want to trail ride it's a possibly a good idea. But for street, high speed or just plain old common sense you want "extra light" down the road or down the trail. Other "things" - a 3.8V battery system???? If this is true, there is no way you can get much battery life at high power.

As far as convenience, they look like neat lights, but for $300 you could get many products providing higher quality light patterns . If you just commute, don't need long run time, and want slick looking systems they could fill your needs. But gee-whiz, a dual Magic Shine at $130, add another battery and a helmet light for $60, tax and shipping - would blow almost away for about $220 delivered. And believe me, if you want to exotic go get a Fenix TK40 and 16 "AA" cells and a charger for about $240 and simply blind everything in your path. I can ride with a Fenix LD20 mounted with home made rubber bands by itself and "see" everything I need to. - that $60 plus charger and batteries. Go see my post about "goofy light setups.....

a1penguin

I'm cheap :-) For about $100, I bought cheap DX flashlights that run on 18650 lithium ion rechargeable batteries. I have a 900 lumen (probably about 400 real lumns) P7 flashlight (wide, throwy beam) on the bars and a 200-250 lumen Q5 (narrow, throwy beam) flashlight on the helmet. I have about a mile on a dark paved path and the rest of the ride is road with some lighting. I never thought I would like a helmet light, but it's great for pointing in any direction. Also, there are no gangly battery pack to have to attach someplace. I just stick a spare 18650 in my seat pack. My ride is abut 35 minutes and I can just charge my batteries after every two rides. When they come out with new emitters, I can spend another $30 and replace the flashlight. I also have a standard P60 host and so I can upgrade the emitter; no need to spend hundreds of dollars upgrading. I'm happy with the cheap solution. YMMV.

ItsJustMe

Even though I've mentioned some unreliability in the Magicshine in other places, I have to say that my DealExtreme MTE P7 flashlight is far worse for reliability.

The Magicshine sometimes flickers a bit on very rough road if the connectors are dirty, and I have had to replace one connector so far. But the P7 flashlight, after 3 or 4 months of use, started flaking out regularly, switching modes, flickering and even refusing to come on at times. The problem in each case was either the endcap switch or the LED die getting loose in the case. I've had to open it up about 6 times now and tighten things up to get it working again. Several times I had a flaky light that flickered and changed modes, once it just refused to come on even if I beat on it.

I have found that with a P7 flashlight, it's a spot pattern and I might want a helmet light. But with the magicshine, it's enough of a flood that I don't really have any use for a helmet light.

dougmc

Why aren't you interested in the Magicshine? It's a good light with a very high lumen/$ ratio. You can spend more money for more reliable or brighter lights -- but you'll be spending several times more money for it.

The only thing with a higher lumen/$ ratio is https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16501 (they do sell other similar lights, and some are slightly cheaper, but this one is the best that I'm aware of in this class of light) and while this does get you more lumens/$$ (even when you factor in a charger, batteries and mount) it is less reliable than the magicshine (vibration can vibrate things inside loose, for example.)

The best deal may be two of the flashlights I mentioned, two mounts, two sets of batteries, one charger for about $100 total. Aim one light ahead of the other, put both in medium mode most of the time. You'll get about 4 hours of light, and you've got two spare batteries in your pack if you need more. If you need more light, put them on high for a while. With two, any reliability issues become minor (they're usually easy to fix, but you don't want to do it while riding).

But don't dismiss the Magicshine. It's a good light and a great value.

bubbagrannygear

Thanks to all who replied. At the end of the day I pulled the trigger on a cygolite expilion 250. Thinking was that 250 lumens is adequate and I didn't want the hassle of mounting and removing (and carrying ) and external battery pack for every commute. If it's not enough light I figure I can go for something with an external battery and the cygolite will be small enough to carry as a spare.

As for the flashlights I was concerned about things I've read on bikeforum concerning them moving around on the mounts and switches. Anyway thanks again.

Richard Cranium

Good for you. And in most commuting situations, you don't need "light up the road" power anyway.

Hope you write up a detailed review after using it a while.

ItsJustMe

250 lumens should be fine. I rode with a Dinotte 200L for a year or so until picking up a Magicshine, after which I sold the Dinotte. But they both had external packs, so the flashlight is more convenient. I don't have any theft worries though, I don't remove anything from my bike other than my wallet even if I leave it parked (unlocked) in front of the library.