simmonsgc

Right! And that's a heckuva start. Mountain LX is nice kit, and smoke paint jobs rule.

FWIW, I rode a women's Terry Liberator saddle on a commuter for about a year, and thought it was really comfortable. Not sure what that says about my anatomy, but there it is.

Look forward to seeing this one come together. Love the paint.

EDIT - oops, see maybe you're already over this one.

due ruote 

I think my earlier comment about frame size was misconstrued, which was probably my fault as I wasn't very clear. I understand that everything else being equal, the seat tube length is irrelevant. What I was saying was that, in my limited experience, the overall geometry of an 18 or 19" frame has provided a platform from which I could achieve a good riding position without too much reach, while still allowing me to get the bars up where I need them. I think it's worth saying that for me, that's higher than I would normally put road bars, so simply trying to replicate my riding position on a road bike doesn't do it. On the drop conversion, I tend to spend more time on the drops than on my road bikes, where I ride mainly on the hoods. I think this is a fairly common setup.

I also think it's important to include in your calculations the specific bars you will be using as reach can vary quite a bit. The Midge bars I use have significantly less reach than my usual road bars, which is a bit of an offset to a longer ett.

mack_turtle

Excellent point. Some of these conversions are conventional drop bars, while others are dirt drops. Using either of those style have very different results.

fixedweasel

To due


My friend, this is the exact thing to try and avoid. In the first part of your comment you said the seat tube length is irrelevant. Then in the very next sentence you say that an 18"-19" seat tube will give you the right geometry. I have had literally hundreds of framesets through my paws and have seen/built up/measured/ridden many same "sized" frames with completely different geometries and tube lengths. And it becomes even more important for you since you are trying to convert a drop bar which is already is designed to be ridden upright and riding it even more extended in the drops than your road bike that you ride on top of the hoods.* Yes, please transfer your numbers from your road bike and apply it to your drop bar MTN and I bet for the guys who are on here, who are truly in a comfortable position on both, those measurements are going to be scary close.




*damn that's a long sentence**
**is that even a proper sentence

due ruote 

I’m understanding your points.

A couple things:
The pink Stumpjumper I posted below was purchased and converted not because I went seeking an 18 or 19” frame, but because I found it for $60 as a SS with suspension fork on CL and thought “I bet I can make that work.” I got it home and measured it. Specialized calls it a 19” frame and the ett is 57cm. My ideal for a road frame is right around 55cm, so when you factor in the decreased length from stem rise, I think it’s in the ballpark. Would the next size down (18”, which presumably has a slightly shorter tt) have fit me better? Likely, but I wasn’t ordering from a shop. This works for me as set up. Some of the parts may look a bit odd or forced, but it doesn’t bother me. To me, a foot and a half of seatpost looks just as goofy as a 60mm stem. One way or another these builds often involve some compromises, or that’s been my experience anyway. Oh - and the fit, while fairly close to my road bikes, is a bit more upright, especially if I am on the hoods.
This bike already has a short head tube. Were it any shorter, as it might be on a smaller frame, I don’t know that I would be able to insert the stem to the min line. I also don’t know whether a smaller frame would have a slacker head angle, which would also of course affect the fit.

wrk101

FWIW, my drop bar conversion key measurements are identical to the road bikes I ride. Smaller seat tube length on the MTB, yielding a similar TT length as my road bikes. As the 1980s progressed and into the 1990s, top tubes got longer and longer, making a conversion much harder.

vp1337

Here's my Marin Bear Valley SE 1992 finally in a ridable form:



Gonna change seatpost, seat, stem, and will level the bars a little.

neo_pop_71

mack_t-

What you had to say about bar selection is key and second only to frame selection in my opinion. Coming from a mountain bike background with a 55-65 bar to a road with 38-46 bar will definitely give a cramped or pinched feeling to the cockpit. If you run a traditional road bar as opposed to a dirt drop bar you will find the steering to be "dicey" or "extreme" as I've read from those running that set up. To each is own and I'm sure there are plenty that love it but I hated the handling.

I'm finishing up my Easton Reflex ALX Carbon dirt drop build... tall Salsa stem, On One Midge bars (my favorite all I've tried), Campy Ergo levers, V-Dapters (Sheldon Brown's favorite), and XT v-brakes with DKG brake booster. I think it will make for a fantastic handling front end... we'll see in about a week.

neo_pop_71

Sorry... no clue why it flipped the photo.

due ruote 

Upside down or sideways you do great work and I always like to see the bikes you’ve built up.

beicster 

The latest incarnation of my 94 Diamondback Apex. I stripped the orange rattle can paint I put on several years ago and attempted the bluing like Happy Feet did with his. Unlike him, I did not put a clearcoat on. It worked great on the fork but on the frame, a light coat of rust formed over two days. I don't know if it is a difference in the metal or if I did something different on the frame. Maybe I did not let the denatured alcohol dry off the frame. Yesterday, just for fun, I rubbed it down with boiled linseed oil. I'll check to see if it helps with the surface rust. If not, I'll figure out something else. If it holds off the rust, I am happy with the result.

I still have not decided what color tape to go with.

[IMG]Untitled by Andy Beichler, on Flickr[/IMG]

neo_pop_71

Thank you due ruote for such kind words, very flattering and much appreciated! I'll do my best to exceed your expectations. Here is a side view of the progress, I love what you don't see... internal cable routing! Thanks again!

neo_pop_71

Oh my god... you've got to be kidding!

NocoRider

Mac - just a couple more thots on sizing...

I have a 4' level with a measuring tape so I can somewhat easily measure stack and reach. IMHO these are the two most important measurements in checking a new prospect for fit. As others pointed out, since the early 90's the mtb frames have started getting much longer toptubes (more reach) which is needed for a good mtb position. In short:
- Stack will indicate the length of seatpost and stem height to match your current bike(s).
- Reach will guide to the stem length (extension).

To your question, yes ETT of mtb's (since the early to mid 90's) are going to be longer exactly as you've observed.

Unfortunately stack and reach dimensions are new so vintage 26'ers will not have this spec'd.

There are a lot of 26'ers with reasonably short top tubes and sufficiently tall head tubes to make a good fit. Because of the slack mtb headtubes, as one raises the bars this will bring the bars back and shorten the reach.

Measure dropout spacing - I prefer 135mm so I can upgrade to cassettes with 8+ cogs. Mtb tube sets are stiff so it's difficult at best to squeeze a 135mm wheel into a 130mm spacing.

I cold set an '89 Stumpjumper Comp from 126mm to 135mm - it's not rocket science but it doesn't always go well. Having access to a frame alignment gauge is nice but if one has a good set of calipers it's possible to accurately check alignment.

Happy shopping,
Greg

vp1337

Fixed that for ya buddy, looks absolutely amazing! Make sure to keep us updated on this, super rad!
.

Wileyone 

What a great thread.

I recently "found" two Frame sets in my size. A Rocky Mountain and a Stumpjumper both Tange Prestige (late 1980's). looking forward to building them up. First MTB in 30 Years. This thread has given lots of ideas.

Keep em coming.

mack_turtle

Curious- how much $$ did you guys put into converting an old mtb/ hybrid into a dropbar bike? I started doing this with an old Specialized Crossroads hybrid and, in the absence of a personal collection of spare parts, this is starting to see more expensive than it's worth.

I spent several hours at the local bike co-op looking for some appropriate drop bars, an upright quill stem that fits on the bars, levers (the drop bar brake lever box contained about 30 right levers with now matching lefts. Damn fixie kids!), cranks that have a serviceable BCD for a single ring, etc. finding shifters was a joke so I planned on singlespeeding it. I did find some tires and shift cables to rebuild the bike into a functional state though.

After that, I knew I would want some better wheels, a saddle that is not a tractor seat, some mini v's or better canti brakes, and some decent dirt tires. I added it up and I can't find a way to make this work for under $300. I am well on my way to buying a new bike and over halfway to a decent used CX bike. As much as I love to tinker, I'll be screwing around with this months before it's rideable.

Where do you draw the line?

kingston 

I added everything up and it came to around $700. Good thing I didn't add it up before I bought everything or I never would have done it. That happens to me every time I build a bike.

Jadesfire 

I also converted an early '90s Trek hybrid. It was only my second project so I had to also buy a few more tools than what I had on hand, and I took a long time shopping around for parts. I think I ended up at about the $300 mark myself, maybe $375. The way I look at it, I still came out spending less than a new cookie-cutter bike that would still have low-level modern components, and I know how to work on every inch of it myself. It's a hobby for me, and I'm not in it to try to make money flipping machines. I'd draw the line if it wasn't fun anymore, or if I needed than discretionary money for something else more important. Also, I think it takes time to build up a decent parts and consumables stash to make a conversion like this a real steal of a deal anyway, so I've accepted that I'm not going to be saving huge amounts of money (relatively speaking). Just my .02.

due ruote 

I think the best way to keep the cost down is the same for any build - find something as complete as possible. Lots of mid-upper level mtbs came with some level of Deore which ime is pretty bulletproof. So bars/stem, shifters and probably tires and saddle usually are additional costs but not much else.

NocoRider

I always look for a complete bike -OR- if I have a frameset I look for a bike with a trashed frame but good parts.

If the frame is good, the minimum cost is:
$30 - New cables
$10 - Handlebar tape
$10 - Used bars from Co-Op... New 25.4mm (1") bars will set me back $40 to $50
$10 - Used stem from Co-Op
$90 - New bar-end shifters
$150 - total

On top of this start adding in the "extras"
- low cost single color fresh powder coat
- Replace tires, tubes & rimstrips if needed
- Replace saddle
- New brake pads
- Cassette (replace worn unit or for "better" gear selection)
- Replace chain
- High rise stem (such as the Dirt Dropper) for a better fit

There are lots of inexpensive "garage queens" from the 80's and 90's which make excellent donor bikes. It really helps to be familiar with compatibility of parts and frame dimensions. For example all of the older Shimano indexed derailleurs and shifters are compatible with the notable exception of Dura-Ace 7spd and 8spd. For example I have used a 6spd XT derailleur with 9spd bar-end shifters and a 9spd Deore derailleur with 10spd brifters.

Cranksets are fairly compatible from 6spd thru 8spd. The 9 speed chain is too narrow for an 8spd chain and similarly 10 speed chain is too narrow for 9. Fortunately 10 and 11 speed cranks/chains are compatible.

Bottom brackets are compatible with very specific brands and vintages of cranks. Thus I try not to change cranksets as this often necessitates a new crank. Most older mtb's have standard British (English?) threads which helps a lot on compatibility. Campagnolo cranks have a different taper so they are incompatible with (almost?) all other brands.

When checking out a potential purchase, I always have my chain gauge. A worn chain will trash the cassette. Chainrings will also wear but unless they're completely worn out they usually work fine.

Mtb's have 1" handlebar clamps which is perfect for a 25.4mm road bar. There are lots of used 26mm drop bars for sale cheap, but these will require a road stem.

In the late 80's mtb's started getting 1-1/8" steerer tubes but were threaded and used quill stems. There are 1-1/8 quill stems available - but these are all for 1" mtb bars.

My experience with 26mm drop bars is to use a road quill stem if the bike has a 1" threaded steerer, or if the bike has a 1-1/8" fork I'll use an adapter to convert it to a threadless road stem.

Bottom line, yes it can take a fair bit of $$$ to get the bike up and running. But having said that, I find myself riding my Frankenbikes more than my ti CX bike.

merida

I think the question is how to avoid sinking money into something you end up not riding. I've made several of these conversions over the years, and always end up spending much more than the bike is "worth". But to me this is a hobby, I enjoy the creative process. And all hobbies cost money.

My best advice is to start with the right bike, a nice one that fit and will work with drop bars. Bring a tape measure. Try to find one thats in ridable condition as is. A good place to start is something with 1" fork, cantilever brakes, a 48/38/28 triple and 7 speed cassette. Then go buy a Nitto dirt drop stem, an 80mm is propably what you want. Find some drop bars with short reach and not too much drop. I love the Nitto randonneur. You will be able to sell these at a good price if things dont work out, or keep them for your next build.

Then some brake levers, any drop bar lever will work with cantilevers. Then some shifters, -stem shifters are a cheap way to get it up and running. Then go for a ride!

If you enjoy it: build it up the way you like. Better, lighter, shinier wheels, tyres, levers, gearing, saddle, whatever
If not: remove everything and start looking for a better bike

mack_turtle

Thanks for the feedback.

I was never interested in the "creative process." I worked in bike shops for six years and spent three of those also running a bike co-op. That experience spoiled me in that really nice bikes have always been financially out of reach and old "project" bikes were virtually free. It does not seem worth the effort and cost any more. I am also burned out on tinkering on bikes when I am not being paid to do it in a clean, warm, organized shop.

I was interested in a bike (steel, singlespeed, comfortable for long mixed terrain rides) I would just ride that would be an alternative to the only other bike I own, which is a heavy mountain bike. I didn't want not spend months and hundreds of dollars screwing around with it. For about $500, I could get a State Warhawk, Traitor Crusade, or something like a used Crosscheck and be done with it.

I totally understand the fun of multiple project bikes, but I only have the space and the budget for one bike. Adding a second bike is already pushing it. Hopefully someone will enjoy the Crossroads now that I have fixed it up.

kingston 

Building a bike is always more expensive than buying a comparable used one complete and usually more expensive than you thought it was going to be. I've seen bikes from this thread sit on craigslist for a fraction of what I know they must have cost to build.

jj1091

Yep. That's how you end up with a "collection".