Dave Mayer

Tubular tires are no better than clincher tires, in terms of construction quality. However, the tubular rim/tire system is superior in multiple ways to the clincher system.

Several of these have been mentioned, particularly the safety benefits in the event of a sudden blowout. But the key benefit, and the reason why tubulars are used at the elite levels of the sport (past, now, and forever) is rim weight. See those 2 hooks on clincher rims required to hold on the tire bead on clincher tires? These are eliminated on tubular rims, saving at least 100g per rim, at the most important part on the bike (rotating mass).

These hooks, besides being heavy, are fragile (requiring a further bulking up of the rim), susceptible to impacts, and they are sharp, causing pinch flats.

BTW: I've had 2 clincher flats this week due to a rim strip failure. That's something you don't get on tubulars. Now that the weather is fine, I'm glad to be back on tubbies. When pre-injected with 20cc of Stan's, they are almost impregnable to pinprick-class flats.

DiabloScott

I did a little racing on silk sew-ups and 330g rims back in the day - They were just my race wheels though because they were expensive... most of my riding was on clinchers, and I was clinchers only for many years.

But now I ride the tough sew-ups and 430g rims on my winter bike because it makes riding in the rain and snow more fun, and it makes riding my vintage bike more fun. It is not at all about the weight, but the feel is really nice. I don't get many flats on these or my clinchers so that's not an issue either.




And I do have to carry a tire iron anyway, because I do really good glue jobs that are damn hard to get off.




I think I only had one puncture all season... and then a slow leak where the Stan's sealant finally failed from last year's puncture... got me home without changing on the road though.

randyjawa 

In my limited experience, tubulars do offer a better ride quality. They are, however, a buttpain in my opinion since maintenance and cost are somewhat prohibitive. That said...

I run clinchers on my riders and on anything manufactured after clinchers, alloy 700c units, were introduced. I believe that was around the middle of the 1970s. I run clinchers on my Cyclops and on my Jamaica Bianchi. And most of my bikes are older than that so sew-ups are the only way to go for me, if originality is the issue.

Would I waste my time and cash on a newer steed by installing tubulars? Not a chance even though I do like the ride quality. They are just not that much better than today's clinchers, which, believe it or not, I will be installing on my 1968 Legnano in a month or so...

crank_addict

Regardless of our beloved retro /vintage, its all about experiencing the ride.

As for those calling them a PITA, so be it and I differ. Weird as I'm changing more clincher rims and swapping to tubular. Honestly speaking, my new Veloflex Masters and other brand Vittoria w/ Graphene clinchers don't excite me much as tubulars.

The bargains are available for super nice and light weight lightweight tubular rims. Same for very nice upper tier tubular tires. Shopping today couldn't be any easier. For the heck of it, I just changed out the worn tubular tires AND decided to change the tubular Mavic GP4 anodized rims on my Colnago. Found a pair of NOS Fiamme rims plus Vittoria Squadre tubular tires- vintage of course- all in under $70.

Slowride79

ThermionicScott 

Yellow Jersey has a pretty good tutorial on their site: Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel

ksryder

I thought the reason to ride tubulars was for the sense of superiority. Kind of like cross fit.

specialmonkey

What about open tubulars? Here's how Vittoria describes them:

Open tubular is a type of clincher tire that uses the unique construction method of high-end tubulars. Vittoria open tubulars have exactly the same production process and properties as the tubular, except for the sown-in inner tube. Open are handmade with aramid folding bead for optimal fit on the rim.

Best of both worlds or clever marketing?

ThermionicScott 

Misleading marketing term. They're not tubulars. We don't need to open that can of worms here.

squirtdad

Pretty sure @Wildwood has tried these both in clincher with latex and in tubular........ IIRC he noted the clincher was getting close, but still the tubular was still better ride and clearly better in corners

crank_addict

Above is steering you in the right direction.

Pre-fit the tubular to the rim and leave it for a few days.

A few pointers I've adapted is in cleaning rims. Absolutely no longer bother with chemical or cleaners. Rather simply use 3M type scuff pads. Green ones work well. The rim should be in a cooler room or environment and then scuff off. It doesn't have to be fully cleaned and only for old dried adhesive. Otherwise, leave it and re-apply your fave glue.

As for glue up, buy a qty. lot of disposable glue brushes, (Harbor Freight for a couple dollars). Apply 'sparingly' in light coats on both rim and the tire base tape. Slowly dab on the rim or base tape and then use the disposable brush to evenly spread, all the way edge to edge of the rim. You want even and full coverage. Skip near the tire valve but also I've know a few rides who skip an area opposite the valve. This done to speed up and help in first upon removal.

Two coats or two 4 oz. tubes per wheelset pair is plenty, leaving a 1/2 tube remaining is my usage. Let it set up for a few hours at minimum. You'll notice within 10 minutes as it becomes very tacky.

To get the last part of the tacky tire stretched over, I typically 'roll' it on vs. attempting to stretch. Believe me, they never 'stretch' on. You might consider practicing the technique before your first glueing.

Ps. Tape is an alternative but make sure its NOT too aggressive to your tire selection. Tufo tape in particular. Known to ruin some base tapes.

Bad Lag

JMO -
They have the best possible ride characteristics.
They are light!
They are NOT messy.
Flats are NOT difficult (because you swap tires).
It is more difficult to repair a flat than on a clincher but it is VERY do-able.
Good tubular tires are expensive but so a good clinchers.
Tubular wheel sets can be inexpensive to buy, partially offsetting some of the tires' cost.
Pinch flats are not eliminated when riding on pot-holed roads with no option to avoid the hole (aka, NYC).
Super light rims and spokes are not robust enough for many riders (me).

YMMV

Salamandrine 

1) FYI. Rims do not need to be cleaned of old glue every time you glue or reglue a tire. It's a huge hassle and pointless, and a major reason that many folks get turned off of tubulars. Do however clean the old dried up vintage glue on your newly acquired vintage rims, the first time, once. There are many methods. Search the archives. If it's really dry and crispy, a wire brush wheel is fast. You can also use a heat gun, and scrape it off like paint. Or use solvent. Acetone or mineral spirits typically. One or the other can work better depending on the original glue. Solvent is messy. Lastly paint stripper can work. Do that outside for sure, with a respirator.


2) the Yellow jersey tutorial is fine. There are many others on youtube. Follow the directions on the glue that you use. They are slightly different depending on the adhesive brand chosen. Don't be stingy with the glue.


RE the OT: I rode tubulars exclusively (mostly) through the 80s and 90s into the aughts. Mostly because clinchers sucked. Like noglider, I remember people saying tubulars were over with as long ago as the mid 80s. People said clincher were just as good, but they were not. Not even close. Clinchers have gotten better now - really, and that's what I ride. The rims are still heavier but the tires roll nicely now - at least as well as a nice training tubular anyway. I can certainly undertand those that still prefer tubulars for the zippy feel. Also, historical racing bikes should really have sewups, just the right thing to do. It was part of the experience.


The hassle factor is exaggerated IMO. It's mostly a matter of familiarity. Tubulars are much much faster to change on the road. Rip off the old one, pull on the spare, pump it up and go. Takes a fraction of the time that it takes to swap a tube, and no tools are required. Even patching a sew up isn't a big deal after some practice. I can do it in 10 minute or less. Typically this is done while warm and comfortable at home, not on the side of the road somewhere.


Main hassle with sew ups nowadays as that the required accessories are sometimes hard to find. Jevelot latex is gone. Velox patch kits still exist, but probably need to be mail ordered. Your LBS may have rim glue, but a good chance they don't. Also, I preferred the old red Clement glue and it's extinct. Conti type glue is the only choice now. On the plus side, the injectable gooey flat repair stuff available now is reputed to work. The early versions of those things most certainly did not.

noglider 

@Slowride79, don't clean the glue off rims. There is no point, and it is very difficult.

flyingPiggy

+1 on this.

Experience is key word here I think. If you want to experience classic and vintage ride... go with tubular. In my humble opinion which based on my humble experience, I do prefer tubular on my classic and vintage rides. I think it has to do more about intangibles... such as emotion and feel, rather than the numbers on a spread sheet. Well, at least for me it is... So in the end.... it is up to you.

SJX426 

Clean up is easy if you use a brass wire wheel. Comes clean without removing anodizing. Works really well on the dried Clement glue.

HTupolev

High-end tubulars have historically usually been constructed using cotton or silk fabric a the casing, with the tread rubber glued on. By contrast, most bicycle tires use synthetic fabrics, and the the layers of the tire are bonded together in a hot mold. Clinchers can be built using cotton fabric with the tread cold-glued on, and some of the manufacturers who do this have taken to calling such tires "open tubulars."

So "open tubular" is basically confusing marketing speak for some higher-end clinchers.

SamSpade1941 

3alarmer 

Wildwood 

What size rider?
At 200#, a Veloflex 28mm (Valanderan???) at 100psi is plenty cushy for paved roads. It's those supple sidewalls that do the trick. I've found sales at $52 Per tire.

The cyclocross type tires at 32/33mm can be softer riding but it's not a road tubular type of ride.
If you just want softer, go 650b with 42mm tires - just not lightweight.

Oh - I was a dyed-in-th-wool gluer, but now use tape..

Wildwood 

@squirtdad has it close.
i'm running the Vittoria Corsa Graphene clincher with latex tubes and love the ride. My only high-end clincher wheelset. I do not have the tubular version.

For tubies = Veloflex 25mm + 28mm, Specialized Turbo 24mm (couple of years old), Conti Sprinters 22mm + Giros 22mm, Schwalbe Big One 30mm. Schwalbe Racing Ralph 33mm (cyclocross)

I recently weighed a bunch of my front wheels. I chose fronts to eliminate the freewheel variances. All my clincher front wheels with tires were heavier than my tubular ones.

I have concluded that the primary advantage to very good tubulars over very good clinchers with latex tubes is wheel+tire weight. I personally believe a tubular also offers a rounder tire profile which may result in smoother cornering (but there are a ton of other variables in smooth cornering - mostly rider dependent).

ryansu

I used the Tufo tubular clinchers on my Cannodale R800 I recall them being a bear to get on the rim and don'r remember them being outstanding they were fine and probably as good or better than the gatorskins I usually ran on that bike but I don't recall a wow factor. YMMV -one of them fell victim to an enormous shard of glass and I don't recall going back to them after that. .

79pmooney

There is zero reason to remove glue unless it is too lumpy or it comes off easily. I never liked new rims, Even after cleaning, I didn't fully trust them until I had mounted several tires and I had glue on the rim that wasn't going anywhere. Fresh glue sticks really well to old glue. Fresh glue sticks OK to clean rims, poorly to bare rims that have seen any king of oil. (Probably including from your hands.) I can see using a wire brush to knock off loose stuff and high points, but would be scared that it might be compromising the bond if I got the glue too hot. (Don't know this as I have never wire brushed a rim and in fact very seldom did anything to remove glue.)

I did 95% of my perhaps 100,000 miles of tubular riding on Tubasti glue. I see that it is still going strong although my first 10 hits or so were in Italian. Tubasti is a glue that does not set up hard. Not a true racing glue though I rode all my club races on it and more than a couple of open races (plus my spare wheels). Not for very high temperatures but just fine in anything New England has to offer. With Tubasti, the 5 minute tire change and a reliable ride inside the first couple of miles was just something I took for granted. I would try to remember not to corner hard that ride, but pulling off the tires mounted dry when I got home was never easy.

So ... don't clean rims. It is just looking for trouble and if you work that hard, you will probably find it.

Ben

SJX426 

One of the contributors to the unique ride characteristics is the shape of a tubular on the rim compared to a clincher. The deformation during a corner as well as straight up riding is different as the tube simply deforms like you would expect a tube to do. Much like a balloon. Consequently the contact patch gets uniform stresses on either side.

Clinchers are like deforming a U shaped structure with the open side fixed. The deformation can only occur on the bottom of the U. The closer they patch gets to the fixed end (bead and rim) the stiffer it gets. Not so with a tubular. The stiff part of the tubular is the seam in the center of the rim and not at the edges except for the glue forces.

JMHO.

63rickert

You are all paying too much for tubulars.

https://www.merlincycles.com/velofle...re-102404.html

You'll have to buy two for free shipping.

I just bought 4 silk tubulars for $100 (the four, not each) at the Madison swap. Everyone saw them, no one wanted them. Did not need to be early or sharp, just had to say yes.