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Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

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Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

Old 07-05-17, 05:43 PM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
But it doesn't look like they are buying much of the urban life. It seems as if they aren't buying much of anything but rather moving in with friends or parents, wherever that might be. Millennials Have Jobs But Still Live at Home | Time.com
Like eaglets... fully feathered and able to fly but not about to leave he nest so long as maw and paw keep dropping off the fish? It's easier and cheaper than living in slab city and... free WiFi! Different mindset for sure. Perhaps they could do with a touch of car cult thinking to liven up weed-dampened aspirations-- pretty sure the idea of riding a bike to work to avoid car payments ain't 'gonna do it.
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Old 07-05-17, 06:07 PM
  #427  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
As discussed in this thread, cities are growing both up and out, so not just out, as they did in the latter 20th century

see eg. Millennials Continue Urbanization Of America, Leaving Small Towns : NPR
But the real changes are marginal and certainly aren't fundamental changes to age old model.

Sure, we're doing a bit better at controlling some of the more hideous aspects of poorly planned growth than we were 40 years ago, but not in any way that will radically alter the landscape in the foreseeable future.

I don't think making cities larger is really the answer. And they will continue to grow more out than up as urbanization if fine for youth but they're going to move out as they breed. I'd prefer to see the small towns revived and increased in size by manageable degrees. Linked to larger cities by high speed rail. Technology has changed what we need in our living arrangements and I think we should start planning for that rather than just rearranging what we've been doing for centuries. But as I said, on reflection I realize that isn't going to happen. We are just going to keep doing the same thing. So you're probably correct that we should just cheer when we do it a bit better.
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Old 07-05-17, 08:27 PM
  #428  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Like eaglets... fully feathered and able to fly but not about to leave he nest so long as maw and paw keep dropping off the fish? It's easier and cheaper than living in slab city and... free WiFi!
Better yet, can always borrow one of the family cars and maintain the fiction of being an LCF crusader if that floats the eaglet's boat.
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Old 07-05-17, 09:43 PM
  #429  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
But it doesn't look like they are buying much of the urban life. It seems as if they aren't buying much of anything but rather moving in with friends or parents... Millennials Have Jobs But Still Live at Home | Time.com
I had to dig to find the source report, and TIME has kind of overblown the issue. The proportion of millenials living at home has gone from 24% to 26% since 2007, so 3/4 of them don't live at home.
Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
wherever that might be.
What it would be interesting to know, is how the parental location figures in. For example is one reason for living at home that the parents live closer to downtown than the kid can afford? In my daughter's case that might be one reason. She had a room-mate lined up but they wanted a more suburban location for lower rent, and so they decided not to share.

Last edited by cooker; 07-05-17 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 07-05-17, 09:57 PM
  #430  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
But the real changes are marginal and certainly aren't fundamental changes to age old model.

Sure, we're doing a bit better at controlling some of the more hideous aspects of poorly planned growth than we were 40 years ago, but not in any way that will radically alter the landscape in the foreseeable future.

I don't think making cities larger is really the answer. And they will continue to grow more out than up as urbanization if fine for youth but they're going to move out as they breed. I'd prefer to see the small towns revived and increased in size by manageable degrees. Linked to larger cities by high speed rail. Technology has changed what we need in our living arrangements and I think we should start planning for that rather than just rearranging what we've been doing for centuries. But as I said, on reflection I realize that isn't going to happen. We are just going to keep doing the same thing. So you're probably correct that we should just cheer when we do it a bit better.
As I've said before, old-style small towns were a form of density - everybody lived just off main street and your 4 year old could run to the corner store with a nickel to get your newspaper, but now even they have massive sprawl and everyone drives everywhere. An updated version of walkable nodes distributed along rail lines would be the most efficient use of space - everybody who wanted to could live close to nature and also have ready access to urban amenities.
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Old 07-05-17, 10:03 PM
  #431  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
I had to dig to find the source report, and TIME has kind of overblown the issue. The proportion of millenials living at home has gone from 24% to 26% since 2007, so 3/4 of them don't live at home. What it would be interesting to know, is how the parental location figures in. For example is one reason for living at home that the parents live closer to downtown than the kid can afford? In my daughter's case that might be one reason. She had a room-mate lined up but they wanted a more suburban location for lower rent, and so they decided not to share.
Huff post had the number at 36 percent have moved home and aren't buying homes either. So now that they have merged the burbs into the Urban basket it is easy to say the Millennials are more urban. Still it is pretty much accepted by many reporting sources including the BBC. A third of US millennials still live at home, census report finds - BBC News

I do wonder how they will do once they get back into a full employment society? But if a third are moving home, be that the burbs or the city, it isn't a property growth spurt making the city bigger.
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Old 07-05-17, 10:09 PM
  #432  
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Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
Huff post had the number at 36 percent have moved home and aren't buying homes either. So now that they have merged the burbs into the Urban basket it is easy to say the Millennials are more urban. Still it is pretty much accepted by many reporting sources including the BBC. A third of US millennials still live at home, census report finds - BBC News

I do wonder how they will do once they get back into a full employment society? But if a third are moving home, be that the burbs or the city, it isn't a property growth spurt making the city bigger.
The US census study reported by the BBC included college dorms as "home" - although in a way I suppose that is fair, as they don't have a permanent home and presumably go back to the parental home on break. The bit about the burbs being urban is a non-sequiter as we don't have data on where the majority living away from home have settled - inner urban or outer urban if you will.

EDIT: actually one of the cited articles said the DC suburbs of Arlington and Alexandria were among the most popular locations for millenials - I don't know much about them - are they more urban dense or suburban sprawl?

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Old 07-05-17, 10:25 PM
  #433  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Better yet, can always borrow one of the family cars and maintain the fiction of being an LCF crusader if that floats the eaglet's boat.
Well played.
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Old 07-05-17, 10:33 PM
  #434  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
The US census study reported by the BBC included college dorms as "home" - although in a way I suppose that is fair, as they don't have a permanent home and presumably go back to the parental home on break. The bit about the burbs being urban is a non-sequiter as we don't have data on where the majority living away from home have settled - inner urban or outer urban if you will.

EDIT: actually one of the cited articles said the DC suburbs of Arlington and Alexandria were among the most popular locations for millenials - I don't know much about them - are they more urban dense of suburban sprawl?
I might agree that urban and suburban doesn't matter as long as that is how people feel. But if the blanket statement is made that Millennial youth are moving into the urban repopulating the cities it loses some of its impact if that urban area is in the Suburbs where the "rents" already were living and the kids grew up there. I don't think that model is what Oslo is looking for at all. And as prices increase will they be able to afford to move our and stay in a city Like Oslo or will they be driven out like they are with the costs in Copenhagen?
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Old 07-06-17, 11:05 AM
  #435  
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Imagine for a moment the TdF and no cars. Bicycling star Mark Cavendish drives a McLaren and owns a second home in Italy. LCF means depending on your bike like most depend on their cars. I guess the same could be said for Cavendish who also depends on his bike to afford homes and cars.
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Old 07-06-17, 11:53 AM
  #436  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Imagine for a moment the TdF and no cars. Bicycling star Mark Cavendish drives a McLaren and owns a second home in Italy.
Unfortunately I can now imagine the TdF without Mark Cavendish. sad.
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Old 07-06-17, 12:08 PM
  #437  
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Originally Posted by McBTC View Post
Imagine for a moment the TdF and no cars.
It certainly wouldn't look like the current TdF which looks like a goat rope of motorized vehicles and bicyclists weaving in and out of each other's path.
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Old 01-30-19, 09:32 AM
  #438  
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Bumped because when we last discussed Olso's downtown car-reduced redesign, they were in the throes of start up stresses and conflicts; so here is an update on how it's going now.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90294948...cally-car-free

"But while business owners initially worried about the city creating a ghost town that no one would visit, the opposite seems to be true; as in other cities that have converted some streets to pedestrian-only areas, the areas in Oslo that have been pedestrianized are some of the most popular parts of the city, Marcussen says. Last fall, after hundreds of parking spots had been removed, the city found that it had 10% more pedestrians in the center than the year before. “So that is telling me that we are doing something right,” she says."

Hopefully the Danish guy will revisit the thread and continue to tell us how bad Oslo is compared to Copenhagen

EDIT: there is a new thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/living-ca...free-oslo.html

Last edited by cooker; 01-30-19 at 04:35 PM.
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