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Old 06-06-19, 03:13 PM
  #226  
robertorolfo
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Originally Posted by cmh View Post
Robertorolfo - welcome to bike racing, and to the forum. Congratulations on your first race - sounds like it went really well. Your equipment is just fine to start racing - don't worry about it or what others think. You are right that it isn't holding you back at this stage. Your helmet is likely just fine, but you should check that it is approved for bike racing. Requirements and standards for helmets differ by use and even though it might protect you just fine, it might not be approved by cycling.
Keep at it and have fun.
Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement.

As for the helmet, it's definitely a bike specific helmet, I just call it 'skateboard style.' I think it was actually labeled, "Urban" or something. But I don't know if it's specifically racing approved. I'll check.


I just remembered another quick question I have for the group: when you get out of the saddle to accelerate (for an attack, to cover one, to sprint...) do you change to a harder gear right before? I found that every time I got out of the saddle, I was almost immediately getting to a cadence that felt too fast out of the saddle, without any huge burst of speed.
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Old 06-06-19, 04:06 PM
  #227  
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@robertorolfo Good job on your first race! Keep at it!

I hung out at about 3rd or 4th wheel the entire race.
A couple of observations: It was slow. No one wanted to lead. There was definite disorganization at the front. They looked at me to lead, and I noped out of that. I was playing it conservatively unless someone jumped. The hardest attack to reel in early was by the guy who won. I got his wheel, but he was strong.

No one in Cat 5 gutters people, it seems. Your lee side advantage goes away as you move up in the categories. If I had been leading on the back stretch, I would have guttered people --- ride right along the cones so there is no protection on the lee side. I wanted to conserve, however, and those lead guys were giving me protection. I was using it, too.

There were two guys who led for most of the race. Neither were in the top 5.

Generally, you don't want to dump a gear. Your first thing to do is increase cadence. Then, eat your handlebars. If cadence is too high here, dump a gear. Then come out of the saddle while eating your handlebars. You really don't want to lose a chain when you go fast, so find the gear that works before getting out of the saddle, for sure.

The whole point of Cat 5 is to get experience. You'll learn a ton of stuff just by racing; but there are also a lot of coaching clinics in the NYC area. If you're in the CRCA, they offer free coaching clinics periodically, and you also get an hour with a coach as a part of your registration.

Also, check out some podcasts. There are a few. I particularly like the trainerroad youtube videos as well --- they break down race videos with local pros and coaches.
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Originally Posted by Craigslist View Post
Note to you BLOWHARD MORONS out there: The fork is not bent. Most PEUGEOTS of the '70s forks DID NOT line up with the head tube angle. This is normal. The last pic is from the 1972 Dutch catalog showing this EXACT MODEL in diagram. Keep your comments to yourself......

Last edited by TimmyT; 06-06-19 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 06-06-19, 04:48 PM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post


I just remembered another quick question I have for the group: when you get out of the saddle to accelerate (for an attack, to cover one, to sprint...) do you change to a harder gear right before? I found that every time I got out of the saddle, I was almost immediately getting to a cadence that felt too fast out of the saddle, without any huge burst of speed.
The answer here is it depends. I usually feel like I get a better jump if I gear up a bit before I go, maybe because I tend to spin a pretty high cadence when in the pack. This is almost always the case if the jump is when the group is moving at an pretty easy pace (i.e. when there is a lull). Do be careful of over gearing before you jump as it is a common beginner mistake. You may think you can generate more power in that higher gear, but it might be less than you can at a higher cadence. This is something to practice and get a feel for what you like.

As an aside, you can often gauge when a rider right in front of you is getting ready to jump by a shift up (usually accompanied by other body language). You can be ready to react quickly and jump on their wheel.
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Old 06-06-19, 07:45 PM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post

I just remembered another quick question I have for the group: when you get out of the saddle to accelerate (for an attack, to cover one, to sprint...) do you change to a harder gear right before? I found that every time I got out of the saddle, I was almost immediately getting to a cadence that felt too fast out of the saddle, without any huge burst of speed.

Yes. Pretty much always. Easier to shift before sprinting than it is while sprinting (though you get used to that, too).
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Old 06-07-19, 06:12 AM
  #230  
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Regarding the helmet, as long as it meets all CPSC safety requirements, it is fine for racing.
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Old 06-07-19, 01:16 PM
  #231  
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Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna practice getting out of the saddle quickly on a few of my regular rides (well, commutes really, because that's pretty much the only time I ride, but I try to ride them hard where I can).

I actually really like the Campagnolo Powershift levers for this, because the button/lever is actually easier to reach from the hoods than the Ultrashift, and it just seems to click in easier because you can only do one gear at a time.


Originally Posted by TimmyT View Post
A couple of observations: It was slow. No one wanted to lead. There was definite disorganization at the front. They looked at me to lead, and I noped out of that. I was playing it conservatively unless someone jumped. The hardest attack to reel in early was by the guy who won. I got his wheel, but he was strong.
Hmmm, I was kinda worried that it was a slow race and I had it too easy my first time out. The first lap was probably the hardest for me, because I nearly fell off the back at the very start, and I rode the whole lap pretty upright on the hoods/tops (and on that bike my bars aren't set very far below my saddle). I had no idea what to expect so I just wanted to stay in the back (but in contact) and get a feel. I also didn't show up early enough to do even a single recon lap (or whatever you might call it), so the first lap of the race was my first lap of the course.

After that, though, I definitely didn't feel like the subsequent laps were super hard, up until the very end. I had no idea what was going on at the front, partly because I wasn't really concerned about that, partly because there were some seriously big dudes that were simply hard to see in front of, so it's interesting to hear that perspective. I guess that you can't really expect too much cooperation if there are no teams, but I don't know if it will be like that in other races.
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Old 06-07-19, 02:51 PM
  #232  
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^ A pack finish with the rubber side down on your first time out is a success. You did well. It doesn't matter how fast the peloton was going.

Edit: and in my experience, there is very little cooperation in Cat 5. You can cooperate with people who you familiarize yourself with. I will definitely cooperate with the guy who won in the next race. It's a part of my plan to get better. He's good, and I think I can use him to establish a break.
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Originally Posted by Craigslist View Post
Note to you BLOWHARD MORONS out there: The fork is not bent. Most PEUGEOTS of the '70s forks DID NOT line up with the head tube angle. This is normal. The last pic is from the 1972 Dutch catalog showing this EXACT MODEL in diagram. Keep your comments to yourself......

Last edited by TimmyT; 06-07-19 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 06-07-19, 03:06 PM
  #233  
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In the A crit I do, they gutter like crazy. It's something you have to be thinking about all the time. Doesn't happen as much or as fast in the B crit. Great job having the fitness to be there. The next question for yourself is about that last lap fitness, because that's where races are won and lost. You'll get a good feel for it soon with more experience. And the more energy you save, the more you will have at the end. Of course, maybe you are a TT guy, and your best bet is an early attack. And catch out all the sprint-types.
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Old 06-07-19, 04:49 PM
  #234  
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My season got off to a slow start due to work travel, family and a bad cold at the wrong time. So I was fairly out of shape, but improving at the start of May for my first race of the year. My plan was to use the Tuesday night races we have through the season in Portland as training and motivation to get back into shape, and progress has been good. The course is a 1.9 mile auto race track that is flat, and with no hard corners. Very often it is windy, and it is almost always a fast race with many break attempts, at least in the P123 field. It is also run as a points race which adds to the fun and the attacks. My three races to date:



5/7: The plan was to sit in, get back into the feel of the pack, and maybe move up a bit towards the end if I felt good. The result was to plan. I didn’t do any work at all. At times it felt pretty easy, but at other times it was incredibly hard. I had no influence at all on the outcome of the race so it was more riding in circles than racing. Finished mid pack (33/~60).

5/21: I stepped it up over the first week’s race and moved to the front during the second hot lap (about ½ way through the race). I didn’t try for points, but instead went with the attack that usually follows the point sprint. I was away for half a lap with one other rider, that grew to 4 riders and then was caught before a lap was up. That effort just about did me in and I had to recover in the pack for several laps. In the bell lap, knowing I wasn’t going to contest the sprint I worked my way to the front and took a hard pull for ¼ of the lap to keep the pace as high as I could. It wasn’t a lead out for a team mate or anything, just riding fast to keep it safe and for the training. Rode in at the back of the pack for 63/73.

6/5: This week I really raced. I went with 2 different break attempts, although neither lasted more than a lap. I worked to bring back 2 breaks that didn’t have any teammates in it, and I was generally near the front. I found myself able to recover in a lap or less in the field even after a really hard effort. In the final sprint I managed to get good position, but couldn’t hold the wheel of the fastest 4 sprinters in the pack when they really went. Finished 6th in the sprint for 9th overall of ~45 riders in a fast race (my garmin showed 28.5mph avg for the 30 mile race, 39.7 mph peak in the final sprint, which had a slight tailwind).


Overall I’m happy with my fitness improvements and motivated to keep working.
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Old 06-07-19, 06:47 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by cmh View Post
In the bell lap, knowing I wasn’t going to contest the sprint I worked my way to the front and took a hard pull for ¼ of the lap to keep the pace as high as I could. It wasn’t a lead out for a team mate or anything, just riding fast to keep it safe and for the training. Rode in at the back of the pack for 63/73.
.

**********????

Why????

If you could get to the front on the last lap and pull for 1/4 of a lap, you sure as hell could have stuck yourself in to the front of the group and gone for the sprint. "Keeping it safe and for the training" is a sucker's move. You played yourself out on that one. Why sacrifice your race for everyone else?
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Old 06-09-19, 07:19 PM
  #236  
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Junior won CO Cat 1 State (crit, I think). I didn't know he was doing it.
He got registered as LUX U23, road the UASFA kit and gets no jersey as while he lives in CO, LUX is CA.
How you register matters.
Next week is the CO ITT, then the Nats ITT on June 20. I had been pushing him to do nats Cat 1, but he is doing U23. Oh well.

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Old 06-09-19, 09:39 PM
  #237  
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Wyoming is bunched in with Colorado? That sucks for them. You know there's some mom in Laramie bragging, 'My son is the fastest cyclist in the state, someday he's going to be State Champion. The only ones better than him are those kids from Colorado...'

Nice, I'm sure he'll be fine with just the win.
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Old 06-09-19, 10:13 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
...

Nice, I'm sure he'll be fine with just the win.
Thanks FF. You often reply to my posts, I appreciate that.
SoCal is mixed in with Nevada. I mean, Lemond was Nevada right? So maybe NV and WY should unite.
I think he got the prize money and a nice set of new Mavic wheels with tires.

I'm sure the smack talk is not appreciated, but it again confirms you don't need a lot of hours on the bike for short distance/time races. I think he's 3-4 hours / week on the bike. More in the gym, and other very physical non-cycling stuff.
He commented all the good guys were at Tulsa Tough racing for cash.
This was a tune up for nats where he will only be doing the ITT. Fly out Wed, return Thurs.

The race report went - there was a break of 3. I decided to bridge up, we stayed away, I finished first.

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Old 06-10-19, 09:50 AM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
but it again confirms you don't need a lot of hours on the bike for short distance/time races. I think he's 3-4 hours / week on the bike. More in the gym, and other very physical non-cycling stuff.
It only confirms that HE doesn't need a lot of hours on the bike.

Take anyone else in this forum, give us those hours, 2x the hours, 3x the hours, whatever, and it still won't make us that fast.
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Old 06-10-19, 10:26 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
It only confirms that HE doesn't need a lot of hours on the bike.

Take anyone else in this forum, give us those hours, 2x the hours, 3x the hours, whatever, and it still won't make us that fast.
This.


Before hiring my current coach, I interviewed several. One basically told me I had to put in at least 20 hours a week if I truly wanted to be competitive. (I opted to go in a different direction.)
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Old 06-10-19, 11:24 AM
  #241  
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There's something to be said for being young. I've seen young guys make huge gains in half a season.

One young guy, my rival when I was a 4. We raced in the C crit. He just got third in the 1/2 at Tulsa Tough. Early 20s.
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Old 06-10-19, 11:36 AM
  #242  
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I believe I have posted similar before and you all know this, but it takes age, talent, weight training, race craft and match to the event, and luck to do well.

I agree you need 20/hours/week for longer events - and be lighter. I am not alone in my opinion bike time is less important for power events. His trainer trains the USA track guys and said miles don't matter so much to short events. Junior added 10kg in 3 years - like 7kg with this trainer since October last year.

For road races it was very apparent that if he couldn't finish, his speed didn't matter and finishing longer rider has become the larger challenge, so no more road races right now.
I'm kinda bummed but this is the first nats since age 10 he will not be doing the RR.
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Old 06-10-19, 12:04 PM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
**********????

Why????

If you could get to the front on the last lap and pull for 1/4 of a lap, you sure as hell could have stuck yourself in to the front of the group and gone for the sprint. "Keeping it safe and for the training" is a sucker's move. You played yourself out on that one. Why sacrifice your race for everyone else?
Good point rubiksoval, it is a sucker's move, although I am quite sure I would have been hard pressed for even a top ten if I had worked into the front and gone for the sprint. Also, it is a non technical race on a very open course, and I moved to the front on the edge taking a lot of wind. I've done this race a lot, and in order for me to do well (I mean well for me, not a win or anything), I have to move up staying out of the wind and get a good wheel. I wasn't able to do it in this race so I just kept going right to the front and drained the legs. And given that it is mostly the same group every week, I don't mind sacrificing my race (as a sucker) when it is my 2nd of the year, and I don't have a teammate to work for. I do think it keeps the race a touch safer to have a high pace in the last lap.

I did reflect on this a bit this weekend and have to admit, the real reason I went to the front and ruined my race with a hard pull is because it takes the pressure off of myself. It gives me an excuse for not placing well, and I don't have to fight for position which is always somewhat stressful. Much better would have been to attack and even though I'm almost certainly going to get caught, it is going to be better training. It might even help a teammate if others have to work to bring me back.
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Old 06-10-19, 01:46 PM
  #244  
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Did you look at the rules whether residence is based on your team? That doesn't sound right, but maybe it is.
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Old 06-10-19, 01:52 PM
  #245  
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I'm pretty sure residence is based on your drivers license. At least that's how it is here.
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Old 06-10-19, 02:45 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I am not alone in my opinion bike time is less important for power events.
But your perspective is incredibly skewed in that you think a one-size-fits-all approach has anything to do with anything.

It really doesn't.

Talent is the trump card that you keep playing without acknowledging.

10 hours a week gets me competitive enough to hang in big crits. 5 hours a week got me dropped in 20 minutes this year at Sunny King PRT. I just can't get my meager FTP high enough off of 5 hours, and even with 10 to 15 hours it's never high enough to put me into contention in anything more than a field sprint at that level of racing. 20+ hours was always extremely detrimental, too, when I had the time and motivation to try that.

Last edited by rubiksoval; 06-10-19 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 06-10-19, 07:17 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
But your perspective is incredibly skewed in that you think a one-size-fits-all approach has anything to do with anything.

It really doesn't.

Talent is the trump card that you keep playing without acknowledging.
....
Well played. You get me arguing my son is not talented, or - I'll go with I am not skewed.

Last edited by Doge; 06-10-19 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 06-11-19, 07:45 AM
  #248  
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Also, he might only spend five hours on the bike, but I bet he spends almost half of every day doing other physical activities, not sitting in a cubicle.
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Old 06-11-19, 08:35 AM
  #249  
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There is too much success in this thread. Allow me to bring it back to earth.

I raced on Sunday. The course is on an 11 mile circuit with pavement that is beat to hell and features a 2ish mile 45-50mph descent with no good lines at speed and many punchy 1-3 minute climbs. I felt excellent, but the second time down the descent I hit a series of bumps so hard that my chain dropped and my bike started making noises that sounded an awful lot like the frame had cracked. I stopped for neutral support and they asked me to roll to the bottom since we were in a pretty dangerous high speed area. As I rolled down I saw the aftermath of a pretty gnarly looking crash with what looked like half a dozen dudes from my field laying on the side of the road, but it sounds like everyone wound up relatively OK, and I watched one of em curbstomp his helmet after the race which was kinda neat I guess?

When I got to the bottom I hopped off my bike to inspect it and was relatively happy to see that the noise had been caused by the front derailleur cage having somehow been rotated into the path of the crank arm, bent it out of the way as best I could, and pedaled in circles for another hour. This had all cost about 4ish minutes and there was no way I was going to get back to the peloton, so I went into workout mode, caught a small group after a 25ish minute chase, and pulled them along for a half an hour or so until I dropped my chain on the descent again and decided I was no longer enjoying myself, and sat up to save my legs for more productive early week ITT practice (which has worked out conveniently since I am waiting for a new front derailleur to come for my road bike).

Writing this has allowed me to avoid doing work, and to waste your time with an inconsequential story from otb, both of which basically make this race a win for me.
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Old 06-11-19, 08:43 AM
  #250  
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Tales from Offthebackistan are just as interesting as podium race reports.
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