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New 2019 Motobecane Whipshot Ti from bikes direct.

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

New 2019 Motobecane Whipshot Ti from bikes direct.

Old 06-09-19, 02:35 PM
  #76  
fronesis
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Yep, I think we are describing the exact same thing, just with slightly different language: your QR-type thru axle gets the final tightness from closing that lever. If for some reason the lever is unlatching, then you are definitely going to have a loose thru axle, and that’s no good at all.

The simple allen-key thru axles are great: no lever sticking out to get in the way of things (racks, hands, etc.), often much lighter, and allow you to use a proper torque wrench.
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Old 06-09-19, 05:05 PM
  #77  
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Ouch, these things are expensive!!!

Both 12mm,

120mm x 1.5mm thread pitch for the front
and
174mm x 1.75mm thread pitch for the back?
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Old 06-09-19, 09:55 PM
  #78  
fronesis
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Originally Posted by ChinookTx View Post
Ouch, these things are expensive!!!

Both 12mm,

120mm x 1.5mm thread pitch for the front
and
174mm x 1.75mm thread pitch for the back?
Yep. I went with these specs from BD, and they worked great to choose Robert Axles that fit perfectly:

front: L:M12xP1.5x118.5mm

rear: L:M12xP1.75x174mm

I spent $90 for the Robert Axles, which I too thought was pretty steep. But they were VERY high quality, fit right, and were much lighter. It also helped that I was able to sell the original axles for about $35 on eBay – cushioned the blow.
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Old 06-10-19, 06:39 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
Yep. I went with these specs from BD, and they worked great to choose Robert Axles that fit perfectly:
front: L:M12xP1.5x118.5mm
rear: L:M12xP1.75x174mm

I spent $90 for the Robert Axles, which I too thought was pretty steep. But they were VERY high quality, fit right, and were much lighter. It also helped that I was able to sell the original axles for about $35 on eBay – cushioned the blow.
Get the Brand-X from chainreactionsycles for $15 each shipped. I lost the spec on the rear, not going to find it any time soon as i've got other bikes that need attention and I'm working remotely for a few days. Thought i'd try to help here a little though, save you guys some money. $90 is WAYYYY to much for a piece of aluminum. Most bike stuff is overpriced. Don't waste your dough. The rear did stick out and it can be ground down, but for $15 each shipped - who's complaining. I had it laying around from another build.

Delivery is 3-4 weeks from UK and there's a $50 minimum to get free shipping. But for me, this is no problem, I order Brand-X for all bikes I build and try to have them on hand so I don't have to wait 3-4 weeks for delivery.

Axle, F:Brand-X Bolt Thru Axle (Road Bike Option #1 ) Black - 12mm, 100-125-17-M12-P1.5 $14.77 CRC
Axle, R:Brand-X Bolt Thru Axle 12mm, 148-180-20-M12-P1.75 $14.77

Prices are after 1.5% cash back ebates

I'm on the lookout for a cheap lauf gravel fork.... Fiance wants a bit of the harshness to go away. hahaha. it's a sickness. Won't be able to mount the fenders on the Lauf though. Oh well. Fenders make transporting it in my bike rack a bit of a pain.


Last edited by Anger67; 06-10-19 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 06-10-19, 06:42 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
. Maybe you get lucky and get a straight one, maybe you don't...

I've owned many Bikes Direct bikes, probably ten-ish. No problems. I guess I'm lucky. Ass.
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Old 06-10-19, 07:27 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
First off, great pics – looks like a gorgeous ride!

As to your thru axles: you mention a “lock,” but I’m not exactly sure what you are referring to there. I have thru axles on a few bikes, and my understanding is that the threaded “bolt” of the thru axle simple threads into the bike frame directly, and it is held in place there by being at the correct torque spec. So it’s never really “locked” in place or “unlocked” it’s either tight enough at its proper torque spec, or it’s LOOSE.

A few thoughts there:
1. By “lock” I suspect you might be referring to the quick-release like “lever” on the standard DT Swiss thru axles that came with the whip shot. It’s possible that somehow that lever is vibrating loose and this would obviously lead directly to a loose axle.

2. I HATE those thru axles because they make it impossible to know if you have the torque spec correct and because the extra force added by the lever makes it hard to always return to the same torque (which effects the caliper/rotor centering). Accordingly, I sold thus “quick release” thru axles on eBay and replaced mine with some really nice Robert’s Axle project axles. These tighten with a 6mm hex, so you can use a torque wrench on them and get the proper torque.

3. Note: the torque spec on most 12mm thru axles is quite high, around 15Nm or 132inch-pounds. I have encountered a number of riders who had loose thru axles because they didn’t tighten them enough. And I made the same mistake myself on my first thru axle bike: what feels “pretty tight” by hand for me was only around 80 inch-pounds. To get to 130 inch-pounds requires some real force (I’m weak).
I dont totally follow your reasoning for not using the lever style. You mention this style makes it impossible to know if you have the torque spec correct, but unless you carry a 6mm hex torque wrench around with you, you often times wouldnt know what is correct spec for the Roberts Axle setup either.
Riders frequently have their wheels off-
- at home
- to transport to and from a ride point in vehicle
- flat tire change

Of those 3, i would say that the bottom 2 are the super majority of instances where a wheel is removed, and without carrying a torque wrench with you while riding, you wont know if the wheels are properly torqued until you get home to check. Anyone that has to pull their wheel off to load a bike into a vehicle will then be right back to not knowing if the torque is correct once they arrive at the start of their next ride.

Perhaps you ride with a torque wrench. Or perhaps you dont remove your wheel to transport and also rarely ever get flats(this applies to me, so i get it if you arent affected either).
I am just not sure how the lever style is a drawback for most riders when it comes to knowing the correct torque. They are in the same boat with either skewer once a wheel comes off.



disclosure- my only bike with TA is my MTB and it has the lever. It tightens thru screwing, then the lever hinges closed. Cant say I have ever thought twice about it, but i for sure will on my next ride!
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Old 06-10-19, 10:53 AM
  #82  
fronesis
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I dont totally follow your reasoning for not using the lever style. You mention this style makes it impossible to know if you have the torque spec correct, but unless you carry a 6mm hex torque wrench around with you, you often times wouldnt know what is correct spec for the Roberts Axle setup either.
Riders frequently have their wheels off-
- at home
- to transport to and from a ride point in vehicle
- flat tire change

Of those 3, i would say that the bottom 2 are the super majority of instances where a wheel is removed, and without carrying a torque wrench with you while riding, you wont know if the wheels are properly torqued until you get home to check. Anyone that has to pull their wheel off to load a bike into a vehicle will then be right back to not knowing if the torque is correct once they arrive at the start of their next ride.

Perhaps you ride with a torque wrench. Or perhaps you dont remove your wheel to transport and also rarely ever get flats(this applies to me, so i get it if you arent affected either).
I am just not sure how the lever style is a drawback for most riders when it comes to knowing the correct torque. They are in the same boat with either skewer once a wheel comes off.



disclosure- my only bike with TA is my MTB and it has the lever. It tightens thru screwing, then the lever hinges closed. Cant say I have ever thought twice about it, but i for sure will on my next ride!
I’m not trying to argue definitively for the one true way to tighten a thru axle, so if other people prefer thru axles with QR-like levers, then that’s just fine by me.

But just to clarify, the issues for me are multiple:
1) With the lever, there is simply NO way to EVER measure the torque spec. With a 6mm hex bolt I can use a proper torque wrench when I’m at home. I can also then loosen and tighten that same bolt by hand get a feel for the correct torque.

2) When you tighten the axle you are also moving the brake caliper pads in relation to the wheel rotor. You therefore want the tightness to be exactly the same – way too tight or way too loose and the rotor will rub one of the caliper pads. I find that with the hex bolt thru axles I can tighten the thru axle to the right spec and put the rotor *dead center* between the pads. With the lever, I was always guessing: sometimes I would not screw it in enough, and clamping the lever was too tight. So I’d unclamp the lever, tighten a bit more, and then when I closed the lever it would be too tight (and/or rubbing the rotor on the caliper).

3) I don’t take a torque wrench with me when I leave the house, but my calipers/rotors are centered when my thru axle is tightened to 15Nm (at home with a torque wrench). So when I take my wheel off to change a flat, I can then put it back on and tighten the thru axle right back to dead center. When I tried to remove and replace the wheel on the road with the lever-design thru axle, I always struggled to get the caliper/rotor centered.

Maybe I’m just no good with the clamping levers! But the above is why I personally prefer either plain hexbolt design, or the NEW DT Swiss design, which has a “lever” on it, but the lever does not clamps like a quick release, it’s just used to turn the bolt.

Final note: I see that your TA bike is a MTB, and I have read that road calipers are harder to center the rotor on than MTB setups. I know for me on the SRAM HRD road calipers, there is only a TINY space between the rotors and the pads, so you really have to be exact. If you are off by 1/4 a turn before you clamp the lever, then you’ll be off a bit.

Last edited by fronesis; 06-10-19 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Spelling (damn autocorrect!)
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Old 06-10-19, 10:59 AM
  #83  
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Here are photos of the stock axles that came with my Whipshot Ti delivered 27Dec2018:










I thought it odd that the lever handles were a different shape. They do not appear to be DT Swiss.




This is my first gravel/road bike with thru-axles. They seem to operate differently than the RockShox front fork thru-axles on my BD MTB bikes. On the RockShox you thread up the axle tight by hand then flip the lever closed. If the lever is too tight or loose there is a little Allen key adjustment to set the proper tension on the flip mechanism. Flipping the lever closed does not tighten the axle any further. I don't think these levers have such an Allen key adjustment? If I thread these in as tight as I think they should go, then the lever is too hard to close. So I have to play around with threading them in less than tight, so that the lever can flip closed, which tightens the axle the rest of the way. This seems odd to me, maybe I just need to get the hang of them?
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Old 06-10-19, 11:26 AM
  #84  
ChinookTx
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I have the same axles. They are pretty annoying to adjust.

To me, like @fronesis, the biggest issue is "repeatability" when changing wheels. I have 2 identical wheelsets, one with slick tires for commuting, one with knobby tires for the trails. Whenever I swap the wheels, I spend the next 15 minutes fiddling with the axles to get the disks to stop rubbing. Same wheels, same hubs, same disks.

I suspect being able to torque them to a specific value that remains constant throughout wheel changes would make things a bit more predictable. Sure, if I puncture on the trails, I don't have a torque wrench and may need to do the axle dance, but I can at least avoid it when I am home where I do most of the wheel changes.
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Old 06-30-19, 08:19 PM
  #85  
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If the rear triangle is anything similar to the prior Motobecane Fantom Cross Ti, the bike is limited to 650x42b or so by the width at the chainstays— 650x48b rubs the chainstays.

If the chainstays are still made out of Ti tubing, as they appear to be, rather than some sort of machined yoke or plate or something, they probably don't have clearance for anything wider than 42mm or so.
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Old 07-07-19, 02:05 PM
  #86  
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Hey all,

first post, but long time lurker here at BikeForums.

I’m looking at getting the whip shot TI or the century pro TI. I’m actually very close on pulling the trigger, but I have a question for you Whipshot owners:

Can any of you comment on bottom bracket stiffness? I’m coming from a Specialized Allez and one thing I love about that bike is that I can’t get it to noticeably flex. (210 lbs).

I’ve heard “rumors” that some of the Ora TI frames tend to flex in the BB area, but I just wanted to hear what your thoughts were or if you notice any issues with power transfer.

Thanks all!
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Old 07-07-19, 02:20 PM
  #87  
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I can't comment on the Allez, but I used to ride a Scott CR1 and currently have a Devinci Leo SL (both carbon). Maybe apples and oranges, but the Whipshot is "stiff" compared to the 2 carbon frames I've had. I can literally see the frame flex on the carbon frames just putting my weight on the pedals at a stand still, which doesn't happen on the Whipshot. Even when climbing while standing, the flex is pretty minimal. (5'10", 195 lbs).

I think the Whipshots are out of stock but I was told they'd restock in ~ September when the cross seasons apparently picks up.
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Old 07-07-19, 03:12 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by ChinookTx View Post
I can't comment on the Allez, but I used to ride a Scott CR1 and currently have a Devinci Leo SL (both carbon). Maybe apples and oranges, but the Whipshot is "stiff" compared to the 2 carbon frames I've had. I can literally see the frame flex on the carbon frames just putting my weight on the pedals at a stand still, which doesn't happen on the Whipshot. Even when climbing while standing, the flex is pretty minimal. (5'10", 195 lbs).

I think the Whipshots are out of stock but I was told they'd restock in ~ September when the cross seasons apparently picks up.

ChinookTx,

thats awesome to hear, thank you! I’ve had the opportunity to recently test ride a giant defy and a specialized Roubaix (both carbon). Felt a tiny bit of flex on the Roubaix (most likely compliance), but I got the front derailleur to rub while climbing on the defy.

I noted that the whipshots are out of stock. Good to know that they should be restocked in September. Now I just have to decide on either the century or the whipshot. The geometries seem pretty similar, with the whipshot coming in with slightly shorter chainstays, head tube and wheelbase. Both have same head/ seat tube angles, bb drop, top tube and seat tube lengths in a size 58. I’m not sure if I would be able to tell the difference between the two if I rode them back to back.

I appreciate all of the info posted here on this thread. Definitely helping with my decision!
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Old 07-07-19, 03:22 PM
  #89  
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Others can chime in, but I suspect the Whipshot is more "twitchy", which is a good thing if you ride trails and like tighter handling. If you ride mostly roads, I'd go for the Century as the longer wheelbase would be a bit more comfortable and handling isn't as critical. Max tire size seems to be the same on both. As you say, probably very minimal differences.
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