Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area Looking to enter into the realm of track racing? Want to share your experiences and tactics for riding on a velodrome? The Track Cycling forums is for you! Come in and discuss training/racing, equipment, and current track cycling events.

Newbies

Old 06-03-19, 02:42 PM
  #1  
1incpa
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Newbies

I've noticed in the last month or so that we have a lot of new track racers on the forum.
I just wanted to welcome everyone! It's great to get more people into track racing!
There's a lot of experienced racers and former racers who contribute here and are happy to share their experience.
Paul
1incpa is offline  
Old 06-05-19, 07:44 AM
  #2  
EnzoRWD
enginerd
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MKE
Posts: 659

Bikes: officially too many now...

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 9 Posts
I went to my first night of racing last night. I did a clinic this past weekend to learn the basic safety and track etiquette, and to run through the race formats. The local track runs races every Tuesday night during the summer.

The racing was very fun and way faster than I expected. I got dead last in my first two races. I was able to push and cough my lungs out to get 3rd in the point race and super super happy about that. I'm totally hooked and will be back next week! I will say that during the clinic/warm up my fat Paris Roubaix tubs were fine but at race pace I could feel the front end squirming all over. Not sure if it's the tire, my lack of skill/strength hold the bike in the banking, or both. I will swap over to another set of wheels with skinny Sprinters next week and leave the PRs for training/road.

Clinic practice:



Before my race last night:


The 1/2/3 guys flying:
https://i.imgur.com/sdTubaF.mp4
EnzoRWD is offline  
Likes For EnzoRWD:
Old 06-05-19, 09:48 AM
  #3  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I was able to push and cough my lungs out to get 3rd...
It's called "Track Hack" . A lot of people get it early in the race season.

fat Paris Roubaix tubs
Yes, thread squirm is accentuated on the track. I'm a big guy and I preferred 22 or 23c tires at 140-160psi (whatever the max for the tire was). I'd only use tires that could go to at least 140psi. I've noticed that "narrow" tires are hard to find these days with the trend towards wider tires on the road. I don't know what the consensus is on the track. I know a few guys who are using wider tires on the track with success.
carleton is offline  
Old 06-05-19, 01:37 PM
  #4  
1incpa
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Good job Enzo!

Folks who don't race track underestimate it. I get "all you do is ride around in circles" all the time from my roadie friends.
The ones who have come to race with me found it to be really eye opening! A few loved it and stuck with it, most see how hard it is and never come back.
I'm glad you're enjoying the racing! Keep at it, the experience you get will not only make you a better track racer, it will make you better at all cycling disciplines!

As far as tires, I've ben running Tufo. I think they're 22's. I race at T-Town and they hold up well on the concrete track. I raced them at the Lexus Velodrome and they worked well on their wood track, too.
I weigh 180 and run about 160psi. I tried the Vittorias and found they flat too easily. They're fast, but not so much when there's no air in them...
I've never used anything wider than a 23 on the track, but a buddy runs 25's and hasn't had problems.

It's great to read about your race experiences! Keep them coming!

PI
1incpa is offline  
Old 06-06-19, 08:34 AM
  #5  
EnzoRWD
enginerd
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MKE
Posts: 659

Bikes: officially too many now...

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 9 Posts
yeah, these are 27's and max psi of 100. I had them at 120 and still were way too soft. Great on the road but not at all on the track.

The speed and explosiveness is really eye opening, as is the strategy. I have never done anything like this. The pseudocooperation is interesting and I can't tell yet who is sincere and who is not when talking about pace and pacelining during a race.
EnzoRWD is offline  
Old 06-06-19, 10:24 AM
  #6  
1incpa
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yea, like Carleton said, 140psi is the minimum pressure. That'll help a lot.

You'll probably notice that you're racing against the same people every week. Through the season you'll get to know everyone and how they race and you'll make some friends.
One of the things that I really enjoy about track racing is the time in the infield between races. After racing together for years the men and women I race with have all gotten to be friends.

PI
1incpa is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 09:23 AM
  #7  
EnzoRWD
enginerd
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MKE
Posts: 659

Bikes: officially too many now...

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 9 Posts
Second week update: the Conti Sprinters at 140psi were so-so much more stable. I felt a lot better and could hold my line easier. Still need a lot of practice.

There were 10 Cat 5 riders instead of 5, so the racing was harder but it was good to get practice moving around in a bigger group. Didn't get eliminated on my first lap in the miss and out this time The scratch didn't go so great, and I tried like hell in the tempo but got dropped off the back. It's hella hard to get back on the wheel and there we no letting up in that race. Met another Cat 5 newbie who was also just starting.

End of the night the 1/2s did a madison which was great to watch.

I need to work in more sprints/intervals in my road riding for sure to try to get the power to stick with the pack, but it's still very fast and very fun

Number 88:

EnzoRWD is offline  
Likes For EnzoRWD:
Old 06-12-19, 10:45 AM
  #8  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Great stuff.

One way to frame what you are doing is to consider your weekly races "Practice Races". The veteran racers at DLV called them that and, at first, I didn't understand. I was like, "They are keeping score and logging points. These are real races!".

Actually, the only "real" races are big events that award medals, jerseys, and/or cash like Big events, Velodrome Championships, Regional Championships, Nationals, etc...

If you think of them as practice races, it helps you relax some and experiment more and not get down if you don't do well...because it's just practice

edit:

Refer to them how you want (races or whatever), just maybe mentally think of them as practice.

Often a lot of new racers will be frustrated because they didn't do well one night and whatnot. They soon learn that how well you do is dependant on a lot of factors and you and your body are just part of the equation. Who shows up that night is probably the #1 factor in how well you do.

Time trials are a good objective way to measure progress and ability. Elapsed time is the same for everyone and the stopwatch does't lie

(Of course, then there is the skill of the person manning the stopwatch (and it is a skill)...but that's another story, hahaha)

Last edited by carleton; 06-12-19 at 10:51 AM.
carleton is offline  
Likes For carleton:
Old 06-12-19, 02:16 PM
  #9  
seau grateau
Senior Member
 
seau grateau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PHL
Posts: 9,606

Bikes: Litespeed, IRO

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1167 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 46 Posts
Good stuff Enzo! This thread is making me miss having Encino nearby. Still need to make it out to TTown one of these days.
seau grateau is offline  
Old 06-12-19, 02:48 PM
  #10  
Flatballer
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,208

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1057 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 16 Posts
I think my absolute favorite part of track racing (perhaps behind the fact that I'm fat and naturally inclined to short high power efforts on flat ground....) is that there's multiple races every night, you can try things out, if you get dropped, who cares, there's another race in 20 minutes, and it probably only cost you $5 to register anyway.

Track weekly races are more like weekly crit practice series, in that they're cheap, the stakes are low, and you can try stuff. But even then, you only get one weekly crit probably, not 5.
Flatballer is online now  
Likes For Flatballer:
Old 06-14-19, 11:08 AM
  #11  
chas58
Senior Member
 
chas58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,558

Bikes: too many of all kinds

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 28 Posts
Interesting to have tire squirm on a track with 28 degree banks. We have 24, 44, and 51 degree banking, and those tighter high speed turns do a number on equipment (mostly seats and spokes). I sometimes wonder if a slightly wider tire would help heavier riders or with the high G-forces we have on the tight track, since they have a higher load capacity at a given pressure. Probably doesn’t make much of a difference if we are always running the highest pressure the tire will take though.

What, I'm really the first person to "like" one of Carleton's posts? ;-)
chas58 is offline  
Old 06-15-19, 10:10 AM
  #12  
taras0000
Senior Member
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,674
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Wider tires only work if you have wider rims. If rim width is limiting your tire choices, then higher pressure is the way to go. You're looking to eliminate that "lightbulb" profile that allowed a tired to roll over. A wide/wide combo can still squirm under lower pressure, but the sidewall is better supported by the rim. With I high enough pressure rating on the tire, you can tune the amount of squirm you're getting with varying your tire pressure, when your tire and rim are well matched.
taras0000 is offline  
Old 06-20-19, 01:05 PM
  #13  
cyclinganomaly
Member
 
cyclinganomaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Waterloo, WI
Posts: 27

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL, Trek Boone 7 Disc, Trek Superfly 6, and (waiting to be born) Trek Madone 9

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by EnzoRWD View Post
Second week update: the Conti Sprinters at 140psi were so-so much more stable. I felt a lot better and could hold my line easier. Still need a lot of practice.

There were 10 Cat 5 riders instead of 5, so the racing was harder but it was good to get practice moving around in a bigger group. Didn't get eliminated on my first lap in the miss and out this time The scratch didn't go so great, and I tried like hell in the tempo but got dropped off the back. It's hella hard to get back on the wheel and there we no letting up in that race. Met another Cat 5 newbie who was also just starting.

End of the night the 1/2s did a madison which was great to watch.

I need to work in more sprints/intervals in my road riding for sure to try to get the power to stick with the pack, but it's still very fast and very fun

Number 88:

When I opened this thread I sure didn't expect to see a picture of myself! I'm #100 right behind you! This was my first night of track racing. I did the clinic back in 2017, but never made it down for a race.
I came down on a total whim. After work I was rushing to get the brakes taken off the bike, the tires changed, and the gearing changed. With 10 cat.5's there it was a good night for me to give it a try. I came back again this past week and am planning on coming all summer.
It was fun! Much more friendly then the road scene, and it really is cool how the locals come out and watch. I knew a few people already from doing the road races and crits.
I didn't get a video of the Miss & Out, but I got the other 2.
Scratch
Tempo
cyclinganomaly is offline  
Likes For cyclinganomaly:
Old 06-20-19, 04:37 PM
  #14  
EnzoRWD
enginerd
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MKE
Posts: 659

Bikes: officially too many now...

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 9 Posts
Awesome video! I'll say hello next Tuesday.
EnzoRWD is offline  
Old 06-20-19, 06:50 PM
  #15  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclinganomaly View Post
When I opened this thread I sure didn't expect to see a picture of myself! I'm #100 right behind you! This was my first night of track racing. I did the clinic back in 2017, but never made it down for a race.
I came down on a total whim. After work I was rushing to get the brakes taken off the bike, the tires changed, and the gearing changed. With 10 cat.5's there it was a good night for me to give it a try. I came back again this past week and am planning on coming all summer.
It was fun! Much more friendly then the road scene, and it really is cool how the locals come out and watch. I knew a few people already from doing the road races and crits.
I didn't get a video of the Miss & Out, but I got the other 2.
Scratch https://youtu.be/K3cYF_0ty4U
Tempo https://youtu.be/UaYChCzFyS4
I'm glad that you are digging the sport, too. Most tracks are filled with friendly faces and help if you need it.

These videos are amazing. They do a great job of illustrating, using numbers, what the demands for for CAT4/5 racing. Basically, if a rider can maintain similar numbers in training, they should be able to hang in a local CAT 4/5 race.

Would you mind posting these to the Pro tips for new track racers thread so that they aren't lost in the shuffle?

C
carleton is offline  
Old 06-20-19, 09:12 PM
  #16  
cyclinganomaly
Member
 
cyclinganomaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Waterloo, WI
Posts: 27

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL, Trek Boone 7 Disc, Trek Superfly 6, and (waiting to be born) Trek Madone 9

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I'm glad that you are digging the sport, too. Most tracks are filled with friendly faces and help if you need it.

These videos are amazing. They do a great job of illustrating, using numbers, what the demands for for CAT4/5 racing. Basically, if a rider can maintain similar numbers in training, they should be able to hang in a local CAT 4/5 race.

Would you mind posting these to the Pro tips for new track racers thread so that they aren't lost in the shuffle?

C
Will do!
I'd say that you don't need to match my numbers to start racing. While I am new to track, I've been racing road for a while, and am a cat.3 there.
cyclinganomaly is offline  
Old 06-20-19, 11:00 PM
  #17  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclinganomaly View Post
Will do!
I'd say that you don't need to match my numbers to start racing. While I am new to track, I've been racing road for a while, and am a cat.3 there.
Thanks! I think it will help new racers understand what's involved and not be intimidated.

Question: I noted on one video (the chariot race) that your speed was 2-4mph while you were just sitting there during the instructions. Are you using GPS to get your speed info? If so, I suggest that you switch to a wheel-based system. This will give you much more accurate info.

GPS data is fine on the road where anomalies are overwhelmed by so many data points in long rides. But, on the track when you have efforts as short as 10-13s, accuracy is important if you are training and monitoring progress based on this data. Also, GPS doesn't like oval tracks. It likes straight lines. When the signal is interrupted by clouds or whatever, it thinks that you may have traveled only a few meters when in fact you may have traveled hundreds and are back near the same spot. So, your metrics may be low.

Avg speed, max speed, avg cadence, max cadence, avg hr, max hr are all important when mining the data for insight into your performance.

Good data is a great coaching tool if you use it. Better than RPE and recounting what you think happened to your coach later in the week. Also, those numbers will help you empirically and objectively compare yourself to others when it's time to decide if you are gonna compete in a bigger arena (nationals, worlds, etc...)
carleton is offline  
Old 06-20-19, 11:22 PM
  #18  
carleton
Elitist
 
carleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 15,575
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
(cyclinganomaly, this is less about you and more about illustrating the downside of using GPS for track efforts. It's been discussed here several times before, but your 1 video provided proof of it happening. I noticed it happening when I used a Garmin 500 for a while at the track when my SRM was out for a new battery, and noticed that the auto start/stop chime kept beeping when the bike was laying stationary. I looked over and it recored a similar low rate of travel.)

2-4mph may not seem like much, but here's how it may be misleading.

Let's say that you are a decent master riding a 11.9" flying 200M. That's an average speed of 37.5mph/60.4kph. If your computer were reading 2mph faster, you'd see numbers according to that of a 11.3" (39.5mph/63.6kph) ride. If it were reading 4mph faster, you'd see numbers according to an elite world class 10.78" (41.5mph/66.7kph) ride.

The Kilo times would be:
baseline: 1:10.06 (OK for an elite. Good for a master)
+2mph: 1:05.97
+4mph: 1:02.34 (World class. I don't think a US rider has ever ridden a 1:02 at near sea level)

You'd see similar misleading results for pursuit rides. I'm not much of a pursuiter. 4 laps was enough for me But, I know that adding 1mph to a pace is tough. Adding 2mph is torture. Adding 4 is insane. So, if your computer is telling you that you are riding 2-4mph faster than you really are, then you are being mislead.

Last edited by carleton; 06-20-19 at 11:31 PM.
carleton is offline  
Old 06-21-19, 11:21 AM
  #19  
tobukog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclinganomaly View Post
When I opened this thread I sure didn't expect to see a picture of myself! I'm #100 right behind you! This was my first night of track racing. I did the clinic back in 2017, but never made it down for a race.
I came down on a total whim. After work I was rushing to get the brakes taken off the bike, the tires changed, and the gearing changed. With 10 cat.5's there it was a good night for me to give it a try. I came back again this past week and am planning on coming all summer.
It was fun! Much more friendly then the road scene, and it really is cool how the locals come out and watch. I knew a few people already from doing the road races and crits.
I didn't get a video of the Miss & Out, but I got the other 2.
Scratch https://youtu.be/K3cYF_0ty4U
Tempo https://youtu.be/UaYChCzFyS4
So in the scratch race, you spent way too much time riding mid track off of a wheel. You were probably stronger than the other riders, you just got tired by the end.

In the Tempo, you have to be closer to the front in a field with such a mixed level of ability. Once those two guys had a gap, you probably had a really small window to get up to them. Once they got clear and it was obvious that they would take all the points, you should have resorted to plan B, which is to get the best placing on the final lap, which could have secured a better placing on count back Hope you had fun!
tobukog is offline  
Old 06-25-19, 01:52 PM
  #20  
AmahlAmahlAmahl
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 25

Bikes: Bianchi Super Pista

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
I figured I'll say hello here. My name is Amahl and I recently just moved to Baltimore from New Orleans. I've been lurking these forums for awhile now. I haven't raced officially yet, but I've participated in a sprint clinic and rode in some practice races. I'm looking forward to racing at TTown on Saturdays.
AmahlAmahlAmahl is offline  
Old 06-26-19, 05:06 AM
  #21  
1incpa
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AmahlAmahlAmahl View Post
I figured I'll say hello here. My name is Amahl and I recently just moved to Baltimore from New Orleans. I've been lurking these forums for awhile now. I haven't raced officially yet, but I've participated in a sprint clinic and rode in some practice races. I'm looking forward to racing at TTown on Saturdays.
Hi Amahl!
I think we met at one of Kim's sprint clinics.
Saturdays have been a blast at T-Town! Come on out!
PI
1incpa is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 01:13 AM
  #22  
jeffmendoza
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just had my first cat5 race tonight. Here are some pictures. I'm in the blue shirt, green bike.



jeffmendoza is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 04:19 AM
  #23  
Flatballer
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,208

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1057 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by jeffmendoza View Post
Just had my first cat5 race tonight. Here are some pictures. I'm in the blue shirt, green bike.
Awesome. How did you enjoy it?

Have you had a bike fit on that bike, or carefully transferred your measurements from a fit on a different bike?

You should also practice pinning your number, bit of a parachute there.
Flatballer is online now  
Old 07-12-19, 11:10 AM
  #24  
jeffmendoza
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
Awesome. How did you enjoy it?

Have you had a bike fit on that bike, or carefully transferred your measurements from a fit on a different bike?

You should also practice pinning your number, bit of a parachute there.
I had a great time. I need to work on my tactics, and of course my strength. Bike fit is just a guess, but it feels good for the amount of time spent in the saddle for one night. Pinning the number was the hardest thing! I guess I just need to have a helper do it, or change shirts. Also, I want to get a compression shirt as recommended in the protips sticky thread. I'm wondering if this one will work: https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...sscmprssncrdsg
jeffmendoza is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 11:25 AM
  #25  
taras0000
Senior Member
 
taras0000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 43.2330941,-79.8022037,17
Posts: 1,674
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Stretch your jersey over your steering wheel when pinning on numbers. This can be done for gluing on numbers as well. If gluing, remember to use safety pins as well. Many tracks require the pins, as per their rules, even if glued on.
taras0000 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.