Questions for those who tour on vintage bikes
#51
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Looking at my bike, what would you change to have a worry free high mileage tourer? I’m waiting for FedEx for my fenders, and I’m collecting racks and bags, but as far as mechanical what would you change? The stem look is new to me I’m usually looks before fit, but I’m planning long hours on this and I want it to be comfy.
#52
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I managed to bend the axle on the sansin hub that was on my miyata 1000. I've never bent a freehub axle before... but I also don't know how long the wheel was like that and only noticed when I was changing the bearings and couldn't get the QR skewer out. If you ever build new wheels I'd go to a cassette hub.
#54
Banned
Looking at my bike, what would you change to have a worry free high mileage tourer? I’m waiting for FedEx for my fenders, and I’m collecting racks and bags, but as far as mechanical what would you change? The stem look is new to me I’m usually looks before fit, but I’m planning long hours on this and I want it to be comfy.
I built my own new wheels .. found a 48 hole Phil hubshell for freewheels , built a 40 spoke front from a specialized hub.
found a close out on Campagnolo vacating the MTB sector derailleurs Euclid a beefed version of XT ..
Brakes got some Self energizing cantilevers front and rear Racks from Bruce Gordon (died a few weeks ago)
saddle was a Brooks team pro I had owned and used for 10 years before..
...
#55
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RE everyone saying you must have barcons:
I say keep the symmetric shifters. Saves the hassle of trimming your front derailleur. They really do work. I may be an oddball but I prefer DT on touring bikes. I tend to hit barcons with my knees. It's nice to get out of the saddle every now and again, if only to relieve the rear end during long days in the saddle. Never had a problem reaching for a DT shifter with bags. A loaded bike tends to want to go in a straight line.
I say keep the symmetric shifters. Saves the hassle of trimming your front derailleur. They really do work. I may be an oddball but I prefer DT on touring bikes. I tend to hit barcons with my knees. It's nice to get out of the saddle every now and again, if only to relieve the rear end during long days in the saddle. Never had a problem reaching for a DT shifter with bags. A loaded bike tends to want to go in a straight line.
#56
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RE everyone saying you must have barcons:
I say keep the symmetric shifters. Saves the hassle of trimming your front derailleur. They really do work. I may be an oddball but I prefer DT on touring bikes. I tend to hit barcons with my knees. It's nice to get out of the saddle every now and again, if only to relieve the rear end during long days in the saddle. Never had a problem reaching for a DT shifter with bags. A loaded bike tends to want to go in a straight line.
I say keep the symmetric shifters. Saves the hassle of trimming your front derailleur. They really do work. I may be an oddball but I prefer DT on touring bikes. I tend to hit barcons with my knees. It's nice to get out of the saddle every now and again, if only to relieve the rear end during long days in the saddle. Never had a problem reaching for a DT shifter with bags. A loaded bike tends to want to go in a straight line.
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#57
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I guess I could see that if you have long legs, a short torso and a top tube to match. That said, if I were able to position everything so that I could "comfortably" use dt shifters, I'd be cramped up and more likely to bang knees on bar end levers. An individual preference for certain, but randonneur bars set level (or a touch higher) than the saddle will probably eliminate knee banging. That set up definitely reduces arm/shoulder/neck stress for me.
Yeah I do have long legs. Top tube is medium. I might try barcons again sometime with randonneur bars, as you say. I am uncomfortable with bars level or higher than the saddle. Bars are maybe 2" drop. Part of the issue no doubt, but it works for me. I don't really get arm/shoulder/neck stress - lucky I know. If anything hurts, it's usually feet/ hands/butt.
I have barcons on my Clem, but they are on Albatross bars which are like 55cm wide or something. No knee issues. They are nice for riding loose dirt.
#58
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That is not Straight gauge tubing, it is Tange Champion #2 which is double butted.
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#59
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Given the choice, I'd chose DB tubing every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
The only advantage straight gauge tubing has is cost.
The only advantage straight gauge tubing has is cost.
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My most miserable tour was on a triple butted Trek 720 in the biggest frame size. It was way too flexible. I realize my needs are quite specific so generally I'd agree with you but for me, stiffness is King. It probably explains the two Cannondales and the Klein I currently own.😁
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Install new bottom bracket. Change triple crankset to 22/32/44. Change freewheel to 7 speed with large 34 tooth low gear. Install long throw rear derailleur for use with 22/34 lowest gear combination. Install 7 speed stem mounted gear shift levers, new chain, front dreauiler (all drive train Shimano) info and purchase at Amazon. Install high pressure presta valve tubes (use schrader to presta rim adapters) use wide touring tires compatible with high pressure tubes. Carry extra tubes/ tires because they are hard to find in small towns (without bike shops). Unlike mountain bike tires tubes which are in drugstores in small towns. I have 9000 miles American cross country touring on road and mountain bikes.
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For me as a touring cyclists carrying 50 lbs of "luggage" and 200 lbs of me I preferred straight gauge tubing on my steel haulers. The extra weight doesn't matter, the tubes are more resistant to dents and I appreciate the extra stiffness.
My most miserable tour was on a triple butted Trek 720 in the biggest frame size. It was way too flexible. I realize my needs are quite specific so generally I'd agree with you but for me, stiffness is King. It probably explains the two Cannondales and the Klein I currently own.😁
My most miserable tour was on a triple butted Trek 720 in the biggest frame size. It was way too flexible. I realize my needs are quite specific so generally I'd agree with you but for me, stiffness is King. It probably explains the two Cannondales and the Klein I currently own.😁
If one were to front load the bike, then you don't need a super stiff frame. Loaded like the picture below, I can stand and climb just as easily loaded as unloaded - which is difficult to do when you have a lot of weight on the back end!
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#63
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If you put most of your load on the back end, then yes, you need a very stiff frame to counteract the "tail wagging the dog" effect. This makes for a sluggish ride.
If one were to front load the bike, then you don't need a super stiff frame. Loaded like the picture below, I can stand and climb just as easily loaded as unloaded - which is difficult to do when you have a lot of weight on the back end!
If one were to front load the bike, then you don't need a super stiff frame. Loaded like the picture below, I can stand and climb just as easily loaded as unloaded - which is difficult to do when you have a lot of weight on the back end!
#64
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I balance my bike very evenly. The triple butted was a nightmare. The entery level straight gauge frame with the proper gearing I had just before that was a joy at all times. I haven't ridden a double butted frame so maybe I'm wrong in loving stiff frames for loaded touring but since most of the compliance comes from the tires I don't see any benefit in adding unnecessary flexibility. Other than a re***mbant which was both the best and the worst experience in distance touring, the very expensive, (at the time), 720 really put me off any compliance in conventional frames. It could be I'm stubbornly committed to my way of thinking and my re-worked Klein Performance bike. I'm delighted your happy with your choice of frames and your bike looks like it has tons of personality. Hope I see you on the highway some day.👍
I haven't hauled the loads you have- and I'm somewhat smaller- but I can totally see where the long rear end Trek geometry combined with lightweight, compliant tubing could be a nightmare. And I do think my Miyata would be a better heavy load hauler- but I do think my Treks have a wonderful unloaded and lightly loaded ride.
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#65
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I don't think you're wrong at all- in fact- if the market is any indicator (which it usually isn't), stiff bikes have won out over compliant bikes especially as far as tourers go. Even by 1990, my Miyata 1000LT is much more stiff with Splined Triple Butted tubing- which is nothing like the 531C double butted tubing (the 720 tourer never came with triple butted tubing).
I haven't hauled the loads you have- and I'm somewhat smaller- but I can totally see where the long rear end Trek geometry combined with lightweight, compliant tubing could be a nightmare. And I do think my Miyata would be a better heavy load hauler- but I do think my Treks have a wonderful unloaded and lightly loaded ride.
I haven't hauled the loads you have- and I'm somewhat smaller- but I can totally see where the long rear end Trek geometry combined with lightweight, compliant tubing could be a nightmare. And I do think my Miyata would be a better heavy load hauler- but I do think my Treks have a wonderful unloaded and lightly loaded ride.
P.s, pix.
#66
No one cares
is this about a fully loaded tour or does any type of tour where bike is main transportation work?
i just did a few days on my '78 Jack Taylor beater.
wait, was there a question?
i just did a few days on my '78 Jack Taylor beater.
wait, was there a question?
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#67
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I'm about to embark on a trip to Vancouver when the weather gets better. I'll be taking the '91 LT with 40lb rear load. I'll let you know if it feels whippy or not. I've taken it on a few test runs and it seems a lot more stiff than my '82. But a full tour will bring the best of the bike out.
P.s, pix.
P.s, pix.
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#68
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I balance my bike very evenly. The triple butted was a nightmare. The entery level straight gauge frame with the proper gearing I had just before that was a joy at all times. I haven't ridden a double butted frame so maybe I'm wrong in loving stiff frames for loaded touring but since most of the compliance comes from the tires I don't see any benefit in adding unnecessary flexibility. Other than a recummbant which was both the best and the worst experience in distance touring, the very expensive, (at the time), 720 really put me off any compliance in conventional frames. It could be I'm stubbornly committed to my way of thinking and my re-worked Klein Performance bike. I'm delighted your happy with your choice of frames and your bike looks like it has tons of personality. Hope I see you on the highway some day.👍
Triple/double butted tubing is really the same thing, just different thicknesses of butts on either end. Tire compliance is one thing, frame compliance another. A stiff frame feels dead to me - maybe it's just a personal/riding style thing.
Regardless, once you're on the road, it really doesn't matter, does it? I'd ride with you anytime!
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#69
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I love the reasonable discourse on the vintage forum!
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Earlier I suggested to utilize the fork and mid braze-ons for low rider panniers but wouldn't make it the rule.
One really needs to experiment, depends on the planned excursion (majority of terrain type and realistic carrying weight). The fork is a suspension, so when one makes truss supports and fuss with various rack mounts, you might be surprised and become sensitive to differences.
If your carrying the wife's extras, kitchen sink and neccitates the rear cargo, no way am I riding the compliant steel.
Although I enjoy a nicely setup '87 Trek 520 (extensively changed from factory equipped) with fork mid-mount, its not even close to what my 20+ yr old ally Cannondale offers. My first loaded trip on the legendary 520 with a standard front rack was a handful, especially on steep fast descents. Its now improved with a mid-fork mount rack but still a noodle.
Learned by lucky chance but acquired this ultra budget 'hybrid' ..... yes, a hybrid flat bar with Marzocchi guts Headshock fork. Swapped to shortened stem, drop bar and dual controls, front pannier rack easily mounted to the suspension fork, meaty fast and reasonably supple 700c x 42 Continental Speedride tires.
(By the way, 27 inch rubber is NO longer common available or are very limited. Every bike shop to Wal-Mart stock 700c tires. Also suggest to predrill rims for Schrader valve.)
This bike is an ugly beast, heavy handling slow feel but it just 'plows' over the worst of roads and ultra plush- it makes touring a joy. I'm
stoked how awesome these Cannondale hybrids can be.
One really needs to experiment, depends on the planned excursion (majority of terrain type and realistic carrying weight). The fork is a suspension, so when one makes truss supports and fuss with various rack mounts, you might be surprised and become sensitive to differences.
If your carrying the wife's extras, kitchen sink and neccitates the rear cargo, no way am I riding the compliant steel.
Although I enjoy a nicely setup '87 Trek 520 (extensively changed from factory equipped) with fork mid-mount, its not even close to what my 20+ yr old ally Cannondale offers. My first loaded trip on the legendary 520 with a standard front rack was a handful, especially on steep fast descents. Its now improved with a mid-fork mount rack but still a noodle.
Learned by lucky chance but acquired this ultra budget 'hybrid' ..... yes, a hybrid flat bar with Marzocchi guts Headshock fork. Swapped to shortened stem, drop bar and dual controls, front pannier rack easily mounted to the suspension fork, meaty fast and reasonably supple 700c x 42 Continental Speedride tires.
(By the way, 27 inch rubber is NO longer common available or are very limited. Every bike shop to Wal-Mart stock 700c tires. Also suggest to predrill rims for Schrader valve.)
This bike is an ugly beast, heavy handling slow feel but it just 'plows' over the worst of roads and ultra plush- it makes touring a joy. I'm
stoked how awesome these Cannondale hybrids can be.
#71
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Earlier I suggested to utilize the fork and mid braze-ons for low rider panniers but wouldn't make it the rule.
One really needs to experiment, depends on the planned excursion (majority of terrain type and realistic carrying weight). The fork is a suspension, so when one makes truss supports and fuss with various rack mounts, you might be surprised and become sensitive to differences.
If your carrying the wife's extras, kitchen sink and neccitates the rear cargo, no way am I riding the compliant steel.
Although I enjoy a nicely setup '87 Trek 520 (extensively changed from factory equipped) with fork mid-mount, its not even close to what my 20+ yr old ally Cannondale offers. My first loaded trip on the legendary 520 with a standard front rack was a handful, especially on steep fast descents. Its now improved with a mid-fork mount rack but still a noodle.
Learned by lucky chance but acquired this ultra budget 'hybrid' ..... yes, a hybrid flat bar with Marzocchi guts Headshock fork. Swapped to shortened stem, drop bar and dual controls, front pannier rack easily mounted to the suspension fork, meaty fast and reasonably supple 700c x 42 Continental Speedride tires.
(By the way, 27 inch rubber is NO longer common available or are very limited. Every bike shop to Wal-Mart stock 700c tires. Also suggest to predrill rims for Schrader valve.)
This bike is an ugly beast, heavy handling slow feel but it just 'plows' over the worst of roads and ultra plush- it makes touring a joy. I'm
stoked how awesome these Cannondale hybrids can be.
One really needs to experiment, depends on the planned excursion (majority of terrain type and realistic carrying weight). The fork is a suspension, so when one makes truss supports and fuss with various rack mounts, you might be surprised and become sensitive to differences.
If your carrying the wife's extras, kitchen sink and neccitates the rear cargo, no way am I riding the compliant steel.
Although I enjoy a nicely setup '87 Trek 520 (extensively changed from factory equipped) with fork mid-mount, its not even close to what my 20+ yr old ally Cannondale offers. My first loaded trip on the legendary 520 with a standard front rack was a handful, especially on steep fast descents. Its now improved with a mid-fork mount rack but still a noodle.
Learned by lucky chance but acquired this ultra budget 'hybrid' ..... yes, a hybrid flat bar with Marzocchi guts Headshock fork. Swapped to shortened stem, drop bar and dual controls, front pannier rack easily mounted to the suspension fork, meaty fast and reasonably supple 700c x 42 Continental Speedride tires.
(By the way, 27 inch rubber is NO longer common available or are very limited. Every bike shop to Wal-Mart stock 700c tires. Also suggest to predrill rims for Schrader valve.)
This bike is an ugly beast, heavy handling slow feel but it just 'plows' over the worst of roads and ultra plush- it makes touring a joy. I'm
stoked how awesome these Cannondale hybrids can be.
I find your comments about the 520 to be interesting- as that's the 531 main frame with CrMo stays and fork, correct? Theoretically, naturally stiffer than an all 531 bike- and with not having 47cm chainstays- much less back there for rear leverage. Up until I acquired my Miyata- my 86 Trek 400 Elance was my stiffest "road" frame- 531/CrMo and (I think) 42.5cm chainstays.
That being said, the Miyata 1000LT with the 45cm chainstays and the Splined Triple Butted tubing give the stiffest ride- of my bikes. Cannondales have that reputation of being ultra stiff- and although I don't have one- and can't say I've ridden one- I can surmise what that stiffness must be like in regards to the difference of my long chain stayed 531 Treks and the the Miyata.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
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#72
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I'd guess it's sort of like how some people refer to some bikes as "noodle-y" and some refer to the same bikes as "compliant." Some pleasingly refer to their bikes as "stiff" while others refer to this same bikes as "rattle your teeth out stiff."
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#73
Senior Member
My suggestions -
Get some lights for the front and rear.
Get a front rack with a removable bag. (Link to VO web site)
Consider a larger rear sprocket (wider gear range).
When I toured on a bike, it was all too common for me to arrive after dark. You just never know what will happen. Good lights are expensive but they are small, light weight and actually work.
I have one of those stems and think it is fine.
Get some lights for the front and rear.
Get a front rack with a removable bag. (Link to VO web site)
Consider a larger rear sprocket (wider gear range).
When I toured on a bike, it was all too common for me to arrive after dark. You just never know what will happen. Good lights are expensive but they are small, light weight and actually work.
I have one of those stems and think it is fine.
Last edited by Bad Lag; 06-21-19 at 01:22 AM.
#74
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Was Jack Taylor the previous owner? Is it a Treck? I don’t see why you’d want it if it if it wasn’t a Treck.
“Beater.” Right.
That thing is effin glorious- throw some more pix up on the Tourer thread!
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#75
Virgo
My Voyageur has Tange Champion tubing. It’s the most flexible frame I’ve ever ridden/owned, and I like the way it wiggles and squirms unless I have more than about 30 lbs loaded on it, then the handling becomes challenging.