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Old 12-02-15, 12:20 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
i also find it fascinating to hear about the people who think they're liked but their peers...until they walk away. when you just listen, you hear a lot.
Fascinating! Do share.
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Old 12-02-15, 12:24 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
Fascinating! Do share.
it's not an interest of mine to repeat those things. i'd rather not hear it at all, but sometimes i do and then it sure can be entertaining.

besides, you might not even know the people concerned.
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Old 12-02-15, 12:36 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by grolby View Post
F it, I'm gonna win the Tour de France next year.
Now we're getting somewhere.
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Old 12-02-15, 12:51 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
it's not an interest of mine to repeat those things. i'd rather not hear it at all, but sometimes i do and then it sure can be entertaining.

besides, you might not even know the people concerned.
even for you, this is bordering on trying too hard to bait an argument. I'll come back with only that you should consider that anyone who will gossip to you will gossip about you and that if you're participating in that kind of stuff everyone hears about it.
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Old 12-02-15, 01:04 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
even for you, this is bordering on trying too hard to bait an argument. I'll come back with only that you should consider that anyone who will gossip to you will gossip about you and that if you're participating in that kind of stuff everyone hears about it.
you made a comment about "real life", as if there is a distinction between that and online. i just noted that the reach of what people post online, particularly amongst the small community of racers, is greater than what some people realize.

anyway, me not repeating things, despite you asking, is an example of someone NOT taking your bait. you could try to flip that around, I'm sure.

i'm sorry if you took a general statement personally. sometimes it truly is not all about you.

if you truly believe what you wrote, you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 12-02-15, 01:16 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
you made a comment about "real life", as if there is a distinction between that and online. i just noted that the reach of what people post online, particularly amongst the small community of racers, is greater than what some people realize.

anyway, me not repeating things, despite you asking, is an example of someone NOT taking your bait. you could try to flip that around, I'm sure.

i'm sorry if you took a general statement personally. sometimes it truly is not all about you.

if you truly believe what you wrote, you have nothing to worry about.
Don't worry. I still believe that on game day nobody cares about how someone upgraded. You've been riling yourself up about this for a while in a goals thread.
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Old 12-02-15, 01:28 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
Don't worry. I still believe that on game day nobody cares about how someone upgraded. You've been riling yourself up about this for a while in a goals thread.
adults can discuss things without being riled up, so unless you're projecting, don't worry about it.

if you don't think that people in the pack make decisions that affect who is in the break, and that those decisions can be based on more than on legs on game day + who seemed nice in the parking lot, you're just wrong. that's not subjective.

we're not just talking about upgrades any more--the discussion evolved. that happens. (though i have heard $hit talked about wins and how people upgrade; it's stupid IMO.)
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Old 12-02-15, 03:30 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post

if you don't think that people in the pack make decisions that affect who is in the break, and that those decisions can be based on more than on legs on game day + who seemed nice in the parking lot, you're just wrong. that's not subjective.
I think a good goal in 2016, and maybe the remainder of 2015, is to read and recognize when people have agreed with you. Like immediately after you posted that the first time. You might remember such agreements from posts like (paraphrasing here) "Hey, I agree with that. That's why I'm nice IRL (not exclusively, just focusing on people in my IRL races) to everyone. I need all the help I can get!"

I'll stand by that I've not heard anyone diminish any performance or result because someone took the pack finishes upgrade to get there. But I'm speaking only for myself. Only Siths deal in absolutes, I think.
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Old 12-02-15, 03:48 PM
  #59  
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I'm so lame, I had to look up IRL.

New goal - learn the internet
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Old 12-02-15, 03:50 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
I think a good goal in 2016, and maybe the remainder of 2015, is to read and recognize when people have agreed with you. Like immediately after you posted that the first time. You might remember such agreements from posts like (paraphrasing here) "Hey, I agree with that. That's why I'm nice IRL (not exclusively, just focusing on people in my IRL races) to everyone. I need all the help I can get!"

I'll stand by that I've not heard anyone diminish any performance or result because someone took the pack finishes upgrade to get there. But I'm speaking only for myself. Only Siths deal in absolutes, I think.
yes, fair enough.

but before you go patting yourself on the back, i was just making a different point than the upgrade-specific comments you made, and i didn't agree with "IRL" vs offline.

fwiw, i've never heard anyone denigrate a pack finish upgrade, but i have heard had cat 1 upgrades talked about (no, it's not about you!) and p12 wins. my POV is that one can't control who show sup and no win is ever easy. not everyone shares that stance.
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Old 12-02-15, 03:51 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Andy STi View Post
I'm so lame, I had to look up IRL.
It took me two days to figure it out (without looking it up), but I finally got there.
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Old 12-02-15, 04:12 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Andy STi View Post
I'm so lame, I had to look up IRL.

New goal - learn the internet
TIL wtf IRL is.
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Old 12-02-15, 04:13 PM
  #63  
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I'm a totally different person IRL

I'm actually pretty cool, like, really cool.
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Old 12-02-15, 04:17 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
TIL wtf IRL is.
Damn you!
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Old 12-02-15, 04:18 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
i have heard $hit talked about wins and how people upgrade

Gossip and cattiness are manifestations of insecurity. I honestly hear very little of this among racers, except maybe occasionally in jest or teasing a buddy.

I've definitely been in breaks where I could tell my breakmates were assessing my ability to go the distance, but I always assume that is a function of them either not knowing me at all or knowing me too well, not a function of gossip.

Last year I was OTF with a multiple time masters national champ, who kept looking me over like he was valuing livestock he was thinking of buying. He eventually stopped pedaling, we drifted back to the pack, and as soon as I was behind his teammates he attacked again and went on to win solo. We chatted after the race, I'm buddies with his teammates. He had never seen me before (this was a rare RR for me and he never does crits) and he said he always assumes guys are worthless until they prove him wrong.
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Old 12-02-15, 04:34 PM
  #66  
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Upgrading on points is lame. Upgrading on pack finishes is superlame. The only true way to upgrade is on top-10s.
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Old 12-02-15, 04:57 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Upgrading on points is lame. Upgrading on pack finishes is superlame. The only true way to upgrade is on top-10s.
I'm gonna email and ask Ron if I can upgrade to a 2 on top 10's.
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Old 12-02-15, 05:00 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
Gossip and cattiness are manifestations of insecurity.
agree.

Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
I honestly hear very little of this among racers, except maybe occasionally in jest or teasing a buddy.
maybe it's regional. that's why i find it interesting to observe when i travel and race in various regions.

it's usually more of a 'we noticed...' thing.

Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
I've definitely been in breaks where I could tell my breakmates were assessing my ability to go the distance, but I always assume that is a function of them either not knowing me at all or knowing me too well, not a function of gossip.
that's just smart riding in a break.

fwiw, my comments were mainly related to riders behind the break and whether or not to give them more rope or work against it, even if it sometimes went against individuals' chances to win. seems like there is often someone who will ruin their race to ruin yours. lame racing, IMO.


Originally Posted by globecanvas View Post
He had never seen me before (this was a rare RR for me and he never does crits) and he said he always assumes guys are worthless until they prove him wrong.
sounds wise. his strategy worked in that case...perhaps he could have won out of the break with you, too.
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Old 12-02-15, 05:00 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
I I did the math and the new fees are roughly 38k from cat 1s and 35 or 40k from 2s and 3s. The reader can decide whether or not they believe an effective program can be run off of 70k.
That's about 1,000 tests. Worth it to me, if they show up.
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Old 12-02-15, 05:11 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
That's about 1,000 tests. Worth it to me, if they show up.
are they only $70 or so? i thought they were something like $500 per test...something SUPER high.

it's all predicated upon whether or not they show. i hope there is some return on the money.
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Old 12-02-15, 05:12 PM
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I think Cat1's that are *****ing about $25 more per year are laughable. That's half of one entry fee. Come on. Whether you think it will achieve the goals doesn't matter, because they haven't really tried up to this point. If you don't think that dope testing in amateur sports is worthwhile, that's another matter, but if that's what the governing body wants, deal with it.

Not pointed at anyone in particular.
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Old 12-02-15, 05:26 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
I think Cat1's that are *****ing about $25 more per year are laughable. That's half of one entry fee. Come on. Whether you think it will achieve the goals doesn't matter, because they haven't really tried up to this point. If you don't think that dope testing in amateur sports is worthwhile, that's another matter, but if that's what the governing body wants, deal with it.

Not pointed at anyone in particular.
you mean except the cat 1s *****ing about paying $25 more a year?
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Old 12-02-15, 05:38 PM
  #73  
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is there any reason for being a cat 1 other than being able to race in cat 1 only or pro/1 fields?

it seems like 90% of the road/crit races out there are p/1/2
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Old 12-02-15, 06:01 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
is there any reason for being a cat 1 other than being able to race in cat 1 only or pro/1 fields?
If you have to ask, you'll never know.

And don't go to Europe.
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Old 12-02-15, 06:01 PM
  #75  
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NRC / NCC races.
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