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Niner RLT 9 RDO Build

Old 03-19-17, 05:58 PM
  #26  
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I have to decide on gearing soon and since there is no problem that can't be solved with a sufficiently large spreadsheet...

Values are gear-inches.






Shimano doesn't support 11-speed GS mid-cage derailleurs with anything above 32 teeth but plenty of guys are running SRAM 11-36 without problems. I may have to try this.


-Tim-

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Old 03-19-17, 06:04 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I have to decide on gearing soon and since there is no problem that can't be solved with a sufficiently large spreadsheet...

Too lazy to add labels. Values are gear-inches.

[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/2fjebi56vhp4wwc/gears.001.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]

[IM G]https://www.dropbox.com/s/ip8dc7vhphxqsrg/gears.002.jpg?dl=1[/IMG]


Shimano doesn't support 11-speed GS mid-cage derailleurs with anything above 32 teeth but plenty of guys are running SRAM 11-36 without problems. I may have to try this.

-Tim-
Depending on what you want.... I thought the std Ultegra compact was too tall a gearing on both ends. I also thought the Shimano CX50 46/36 gearing was too tall on the bottom end, at least for any kind of bagged riding....Which brings me to this great resource over in the 50+ older sub on BF:

http://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...road-bike.html

I ended up getting a 46/30 IRD Defiant (with 11-32 or maybe 11-36 back). Praxis has a 48/32 you can change out to 46/32...I think FSA now has listed a 46/30 as well.
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Old 03-19-17, 06:21 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Depending on what you want.... I thought the std Ultegra compact was too tall a gearing on both ends. I also thought the Shimano CX50 46/36 gearing was too tall on the bottom end, at least for any kind of bagged riding....Which brings me to this great resource over in the 50+ older sub on BF:

http://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...road-bike.html

I ended up getting a 46/30 IRD Defiant (with 11-32 or maybe 11-36 back). Praxis has a 48/32 you can change out to 46/32...I think FSA now has listed a 46/30 as well.

I've seen that thread. It is excellent.

Is the FSA 46/30 on the shelves yet?

The 24mm Shimano flavor bottom bracket is already on the bike though and I'm going with an Ultegra compact 50/34 for now.

Gearing may change once the bike gets into the real mountains and the Sugino 0X901D Compact+ looks super nice. I think it is a 24mm spindle, maybe, and it matches my frame colors. Sure is pretty...





-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 03-20-17 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 03-21-17, 01:39 PM
  #29  
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03-21-17

Arundel Dave-O cages went on to check fit and just as quickly came off for safe keeping. These are the only carbon cages approved by Gravel Cyclist.

The M5 cage bolts supplied with the Niner frame looked to have smaller diameter heads than most of the bolts I've seen in the past and fitting the cages confirmed - they seemed to want to pull through the holes in the Dave-O cages. I didn't risk it and briefly toyed with the idea of buying Proti titanium bolts. It's lent and so I settled for four (silver) washers from my bolt bucket.

Every garage should have a bolt bucket.








-Tim-

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Old 03-21-17, 02:40 PM
  #30  
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small fussy note on your bottle cage bolts...the bolts that came on my stigmata were standard head allens like that, and i noticed they often stopped the bottle going cleanly back into the cage while i was riding (the bottom corner of the bottle hitting the allen head).

i replaced them with domed head bolts and the (small) problem is solved.
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Old 03-21-17, 03:18 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by motorthings View Post
small fussy note on your bottle cage bolts...the bolts that came on my stigmata were standard head allens like that, and i noticed they often stopped the bottle going cleanly back into the cage while i was riding (the bottom corner of the bottle hitting the allen head).

i replaced them with domed head bolts and the (small) problem is solved.

Thanks for the advice.

It is a concern and I'm hoping to find button head bolts like the Proti M5x16 but for less than $7.15 each.
https://www.proti-bicycles.com/produ...5l16-otb01.htm
The bike won't be rideable for a while and so there's lots of time to figure it out.


-Tim-
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Old 03-21-17, 03:31 PM
  #32  
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that's not really the stem you're gonna use, right? RIGHT?
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Old 03-21-17, 05:35 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by superdex View Post
that's not really the stem you're gonna use, right? RIGHT?
Right... er... Correct!

It's just holding the fork on for now. Actually that's a super nice Nitto stem but it doesn't fit the bar going on the bike. I flipped it up last night to make it look extra ridiculous.

I've word out in the local community for different length loaner stems so I can dial in fit before ordering the correct size. The final stem will be the Niner RDO part to match the rest of the bike.




-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 03-21-17 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 03-21-17, 06:30 PM
  #34  
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I've got some silver button head bottle cage bolts but they're M4, not M5. They came with some cages I got from Wiggle.

If you're around the Silver Comet closer to the Powder Springs or Smyrna end on Thursday late afternoon/early evening, I'd be happy to meet up and give you a couple pairs.

What size stems are you looking to try?
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Old 03-21-17, 08:24 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Spoonrobot View Post
I've got some silver button head bottle cage bolts but they're M4, not M5. They came with some cages I got from Wiggle.

If you're around the Silver Comet closer to the Powder Springs or Smyrna end on Thursday late afternoon/early evening, I'd be happy to meet up and give you a couple pairs.

What size stems are you looking to try?

That's very generous of you.

I stopped by Home Depot and Lowes tonight in that horrendous thunderstorm and the cage bolts are all set. It turns out that the factory bolts will not allow a bottle to slide in easily at all and so it has to be silver button head bolts.

The stem needs to be a 1 1/8" steerer, 31.8 bar clamp and preferably 6°. I've got a 110mm loaner lined up but would like to try any other sizes, 100 and 120 especially.


-Tim-

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Old 03-23-17, 11:44 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
It's lent and so I settled for four (silver) washers from my bolt bucket.
Ha! Very penitential.

Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Every garage should have a bolt bucket.
Are there really garages that don't?
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Old 03-23-17, 12:29 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Shimano doesn't support 11-speed GS mid-cage derailleurs with anything above 32 teeth but plenty of guys are running SRAM 11-36 without problems. I may have to try this.
I'm using the SRAM 11-36 on a 50/34. It's nice to have the gearing when you need it, but some of the jumps between cogs feel huge. I would have preferred an 11-32 but couldn't find one locally when my wheels arrived.
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Old 03-23-17, 12:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Arundel Dave-O cages went on to check fit and just as quickly came off for safe keeping. These are the only carbon cages approved by Gravel Cyclist.
Ha, well if its the only carbon cage approved by a website, then $60 per cage is a steal since you save 0-15grams over common aluminum cages which cost $10 or less.
Get 2 cages on a bike and thats .7-.9oz weight saved over multiple Ibera cages!
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Old 03-23-17, 01:44 PM
  #39  
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do you have a weight on the frame/fork?
curious how it compares to my stigmata...
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Old 03-23-17, 02:22 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by motorthings View Post
do you have a weight on the frame/fork?
curious how it compares to my stigmata...
Jenson USA says that the frame only is 1100 grams. They say the frame, fork, axles, headset and seatpost collar together weigh 1850g.

http://www.jensonusa.com/Niner-RLT-9...?cs=Silver/Red

The Stigmata is such a nice looking bike. Brake hose routing inside the fork is a really nice feature.



Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Ha, well if its the only carbon cage approved by a website, then $60 per cage is a steal since you save 0-15grams over common aluminum cages which cost $10 or less.
Get 2 cages on a bike and thats .7-.9oz weight saved over multiple Ibera cages!
Arundel Dave-O cages are available for as little as $20. A very patient man might even come across the correct color and finish at close to that price.

This build is helping me learn patience, and patience is more valuable than any bike.

King Cages are nice too.



Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I'm using the SRAM 11-36 on a 50/34. It's nice to have the gearing when you need it, but some of the jumps between cogs feel huge. I would have preferred an 11-32 but couldn't find one locally when my wheels arrived.
Are you using it with a Shimano GS derailleur? If so then do you need a Wolftooth or did you just turn the B screw all the way?

I also ride fixed gear and sometimes just having gears at all is a treat.



-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 03-23-17 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 03-23-17, 02:35 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
This build is helping me learn patience, and patience is more valuable than any bike.
True- builds do force you to accept that which is out of your control and patience.
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Old 03-23-17, 02:40 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Are you using it with a Shimano GS derailleur? If so then do you need a Wolftooth or did you just turn the B screw all the way?
I've got a SRAM long cage RD. Anyway, unless you need the 36, you might be better served by the narrower spacing.
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Old 03-24-17, 12:59 PM
  #43  
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03-24-17

Cassette was installed.

American Classic 29" MTB Race are essentially mountain bike wheels but accept Shimano and SRAM road cassettes natively. Those more knowledgeable than I report that versions with the letter "D" stamped on the freehub and newer will do so - just bolt on your favorite Shimano or SRAM road cassette and ride.

If the information given is correct then these wheels are good-to-go. Post here or send me a PM if you know anything about the numbers on this freehub.




The cassette is a SRAM PG-1170 which equates to a Force groupset. This one is the low geared 11/36 flavor.






The cassette did indeed slip right onto the freehub. No spacers were needed. The photo below shows how it looks before the 11 tooth sprocket and lockring were installed.




A dab of grease was used on the lockring threads and it was hand tightened using a standard cassette tool.




The lockring torque spec meant that a 3/8" drive torque wrench was needed. I had neither a 1 inch, 3/8" drive socket required for the lockring tool nor a 3/8" to 1/2" adapter for the socket I did have and so had to execute plan C, a socket designed for automotive sending units. It worked just as well.

Torque spec is etched into the lockring itself, 40Nm or about 29.5 ft lb.




I'm not used to cassettes this big. It looks comical IMO.








-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 03-24-17 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 03-24-17, 09:52 PM
  #44  
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Maybe its paranoia but I've been worried about how the front derailleur will mount.

Ultegra Di2 front derailleurs only come in braze-on models (that I know of) but the frame has no braze-on mounts. That means a clamp has to be used and its positioning relative to the low bottle cage mounts on the seat tube is a concern.

How can something as simple as bottle cages cause so much trouble?

The cage mounts are low enough that the clamp clearly has to go between either bolt and that means the clamp has to be thin enough to fit between the frame and the cage. Those Shimano clamps are so thick that they sometimes rub the tires on bikes with tight geometry. This clearly won't work and they are ugly anyway. The clamp also can't be too wide or sit too low or high or it will hit the one of the bolts.

One has a right to believe that the manufacturer of a bike with a nearly $9k list price would have figured this out and so I set about looking for pictures of how the derailleur clamps to the frame on the Five Star build.



There it is in its glorious ugliness, a garish silver clamp which looks to me to be too thick to allow a nice cage to be bolted close to the frame. I could be wrong.

The good news is that the build pictured uses an Ultegra crank with a 46 big ring. There appears to be plenty of room to move the derailleur clamp up and down on the tube without hitting a cage bolt.

My road bike uses the Parlee carbon braze-on adapter pictured below.



This thing is uber weight weenie but doesn't flex that I can tell. It is also thin as a whisper and might even fit between the cage and the seat tube on the Niner. Just to be prepared however...



Two nylon washers were about 80 cents and who doesn't like looking through the fastener drawers at Lowes?


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 03-24-17 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 03-25-17, 06:35 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Maybe its paranoia but I've been worried about how the front derailleur will mount.

Ultegra Di2 front derailleurs only come in braze-on models (that I know of) but the frame has no braze-on mounts. That means a clamp has to be used and its positioning relative to the low bottle cage mounts on the seat tube is a concern.

How can something as simple as bottle cages cause so much trouble?

The cage mounts are low enough that the clamp clearly has to go between either bolt and that means the clamp has to be thin enough to fit between the frame and the cage. Those Shimano clamps are so thick that they sometimes rub the tires on bikes with tight geometry. This clearly won't work and they are ugly anyway. The clamp also can't be too wide or sit too low or high or it will hit the one of the bolts.

One has a right to believe that the manufacturer of a bike with a nearly $9k list price would have figured this out and so I set about looking for pictures of how the derailleur clamps to the frame on the Five Star build.

[IMG]https://gzmyu4ma9b-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017-Niner-RLT-RDO-carbon-gravel-road-race-bike08.jpg[/I MG]

There it is in its glorious ugliness, a garish silver clamp which looks to me to be too thick to allow a nice cage to be bolted close to the frame. I could be wrong.

The good news is that the build pictured uses an Ultegra crank with a 46 big ring. There appears to be plenty of room to move the derailleur clamp up and down on the tube without hitting a cage bolt.

My road bike uses the Parlee carbon braze-on adapter pictured below.

[IMG]https://www.dropbox.com/s/26080dq9qe1m6i5/parlee.braze.on.adapter.001.sm.jpg?dl=1[/IM G]

This thing is uber weight weenie but doesn't flex that I can tell. It is also thin as a whisper and might even fit between the cage and the seat tube on the Niner. Just to be prepared however...

[IMG]https://www.dropbox.com/s/dy34p6h91e4g9o6/cage.bolts.001.sm.jpg?dl=1[/IM G]

Two nylon washers were about 80 cents and who doesn't like looking through the fastener drawers at Lowes?


-Tim-
It is a design feature more than likely..

Usually you only see low-slung water bottle bosses on dedicated/serious CX bikes, in order to give more shouldering room through the front-triangle for your arm. Take for example the Foundry Flyover, I was looking at this bike for a while, and spotted the same issue. Now I checked and your RDO is not listed as a CX bike but as a gravel bike.

Maybe they were thinking of allowing more clearance for bike-packing bags, which they love to show pictures of on their website....as bikepacking bags and standard water bottle bosses get into fights on medium and small frames.
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Old 03-25-17, 04:03 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Maybe they were thinking of allowing more clearance for bike-packing bags, which they love to show pictures of on their website....as bikepacking bags and standard water bottle bosses get into fights on medium and small frames.
Probably. Your post makes a lot or sense given the low top tube.

Its nice to have options and there is always this...




-Tim-

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Old 03-26-17, 03:13 AM
  #47  
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This a great gravel bike build to draw inspiration on my own build. I too am selecting niner fork (rigid 29er qr fork). I am now rethinking of doing 11-32 rear cassette instead of 11-36 to work with 46/34 front. My build will also use ultegra di2 shifting with trp hylex rs brakes.
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Old 03-26-17, 10:13 AM
  #48  
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Mighty tasty bike, TimothyH! Tasty water (Topo Chico) too! Thanks for the thread!!
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Old 03-28-17, 06:14 AM
  #49  
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@TimothyH

Any paint issues during install?

There is a guy on youtube who has gone through 3 frames so far...

sorry can't post the link due to low post count

a quick search for "rlt 9 rdo" should turn up (GlobalTravelCouple)
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Old 03-28-17, 07:36 AM
  #50  
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I've seen the video with the paint issue. My frame has nothing like that.

The only real defects are visible in the photo below - a small bump and what I initially thought was bubbling around the mounting hole. The bubbling is really just a rough paint edge and the camera caught light reflecting. I have the bike sitting next to me right now and the photo looks look far worse than it actually is.

Everything else is as pictured in post number 3.




-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 03-28-17 at 07:43 AM.
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