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Why should I buy a Niner RLT Steel vs Raleigh Tamland 1?

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Why should I buy a Niner RLT Steel vs Raleigh Tamland 1?

Old 07-31-17, 05:33 PM
  #26  
athrowawaynic
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Niner is a little like buying a BMW--it's a bit (and probably noticeably) better--but is it $$$ better? Maybe not--at least part of that is paying for the badge and some finishing details.

This isn't meant to discourage... I'm very happy with mine (alu + Ultegra + hydro). Then again, I bought mine close-out for under $2000.
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Old 07-31-17, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by athrowawaynic View Post
Niner is a little like buying a BMW--it's a bit (and probably noticeably) better--but is it $$$ better? Maybe not--at least part of that is paying for the badge and some finishing details.

This isn't meant to discourage... I'm very happy with mine (alu + Ultegra + hydro). Then again, I bought mine close-out for under $2000.
I rode the Niner tonight. It certainly is a beautiful bike and a great ride. I rode the 56 but pretty sure I need to move up to the 59. I'm going to take it on a longer ride next week before I decide.

Another factor in this is the service and time the Niner shop put in answering my questions and starting to get the fit right. They have demos of both the 56 and the 59. The Raleigh shop didn't really know anything about the Tamland. The Raleigh shop isn't bad by any means, but they didn't know this product.
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Old 07-31-17, 07:56 PM
  #28  
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Guitar Ted has also stated that they didn't follow 100% of his suggestions. Leads me to believe he was probably a paid consultant but not getting a percentage of the profits. To me, this makes his assessment pretty believable.
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Old 07-31-17, 08:44 PM
  #29  
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Honestly this is a lot of to do about nothing. Both are great bikes. The Niner is technically a better bike, the Raleigh is a better value. Pick the features that matter, how much you want to spend, and the one that fits. Then go ride it.
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Old 07-31-17, 10:07 PM
  #30  
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A couple of points of interest...

The Niner has flat mount brakes. The Tamland is post mount.

I like the fact that the Tamland has 15 mm through axles front and rear while the Niner has 15 mm front and 12 mm rear.

I also like the fact that the Tamland comes with 160 mm rotors both front and rear while the Niner comes with 160 front and 140 rear. That can be changed with a $12 adapter however.

One thing to keep in mind is the fork. Niner forks are revered in the mountain bike world and the RLT 9 comes with the high-end RDO fork. This is the same fork as the $8800 Five Star RLT 9 RDO. This is a very expensive part - Niner lists a lower model fork on their website for $550. The Niner fork also has rack mounts which can be used for a 4th/5th water bottle.

OP needs to be honest with himself. If the bike is going to see rough service such as rocky or rooted trails then the fork is a big deal. You don't want that thing to break. Many forks break where the steerer meets the crown when the headset gets a little loose, especially when ridden over rocky or rooted trails. I check the headset after all my big/rough rides.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 08-01-17 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 07-31-17, 11:20 PM
  #31  
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If you can afford the Niner, get it. I bought one because I could afford it, but if my budget was only $1500 I would buy a Tamland or Vaya and be completely content. The Niner is great but it can certainly be considered "diminishing returns" compared to the Tamland.
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Old 07-31-17, 11:40 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
A couple of points of interest...

I like the fact that the Tamland has 15 mm through axles front and rear while the Niner has 15 mm front and 12 mm rear.

-Tim-
Pretty sure the Tamland uses the same 12x142 as the Niner. I've never heard of 15mm rear thru. Is that a thing?
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Old 08-01-17, 05:37 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Nightdiver View Post
Pretty sure the Tamland uses the same 12x142 as the Niner. I've never heard of 15mm rear thru. Is that a thing?

From Raleigh's website:
Front Hub Alloy Disc, 15mm Thru Axle, 32h
Rear Hub Alloy Disc, Thru Axle, 32h

Kind of ambiguous for the rear
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Old 08-01-17, 06:26 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Nightdiver View Post
Pretty sure the Tamland uses the same 12x142 as the Niner. I've never heard of 15mm rear thru. Is that a thing?
1+... I have never heard of a rear thru axle of 15mm. It certainly is 15mm
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Old 08-01-17, 07:39 AM
  #35  
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The Tamland's rear TA is 142x12, same as the Niner.
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Old 08-01-17, 08:43 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'm sure the Tamland is a nice bike and a great value and I've no idea who Guitar Ted is but there are some very well designed and fine handling gravel bikes out there.

"Hands down the best" is a bit of drama.


-Tim-
I forgot to link to the review (3 parts). Lots of good info on the bike. The review is 3 years old, so it might not still be "hands down the best".

Raleigh Tamland Two Reviewed -
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Old 08-01-17, 09:53 AM
  #37  
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I thought I read about 15 mm rear though axles somewhere.


-Tim-
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Old 08-01-17, 09:57 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I forgot to link to the review (3 parts). Lots of good info on the bike. The review is 3 years old, so it might not still be "hands down the best".

Raleigh Tamland Two Reviewed -
"Hands Down the Best" was his opinion at the time. After riding the Niner, I can't believe the Tamland is "better", especially considering the better wheels on the Niner. I'm not a high-end rider at all. If I got the Tamland and put $600 wheels on it I'd still be way under the cost of Niner. Even though I can afford the Niner, is it worth the price difference?

After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
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Old 08-01-17, 10:22 AM
  #39  
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FYI, American Classic 29" MTB Race wheels were $899 when I bought them.

They are now $749 and with a 20% sale are down to $599.

The name has changed slightly but these are amazing wheels.

https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html


-Tim-
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Old 08-01-17, 11:05 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Donsell View Post
"Hands Down the Best" was his opinion at the time. After riding the Niner, I can't believe the Tamland is "better", especially considering the better wheels on the Niner. I'm not a high-end rider at all. If I got the Tamland and put $600 wheels on it I'd still be way under the cost of Niner. Even though I can afford the Niner, is it worth the price difference?

After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
Sometimes there's value in having a certain brand. I wouldn't be riding a Raleigh if I could have bought a Niner. I'm vain like that though.

Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
FYI, American Classic 29" MTB Race wheels were $899 when I bought them.

They are now $749 and with a 20% sale are down to $599.

The name has changed slightly but these are amazing wheels.

https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/29-race.html


-Tim-
The 20% off sale was supposed to end yesterday so I wouldn't expect it to last much longer.
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Old 08-02-17, 07:32 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Donsell View Post
After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
good points. What works for him may not work for you. He seems to ride straight gravel roads through the middle of Iowa, which is not at all the type of riding I do.

There is a guy who rides the Niner RLT on some very fast road bike group rides (cat3 race speeds). He seems to do fine on that bike - it looks pretty versatile to me!
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Old 08-02-17, 09:52 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Donsell View Post
"Hands Down the Best" was his opinion at the time. After riding the Niner, I can't believe the Tamland is "better", especially considering the better wheels on the Niner. I'm not a high-end rider at all. If I got the Tamland and put $600 wheels on it I'd still be way under the cost of Niner. Even though I can afford the Niner, is it worth the price difference?

After visiting both shops and discussing both bikes I see that the Niner shop is going to give much better service. That plays into it as well.
Who in LNK deals Raleigh?

Method Cycles also has beers and coffees out front
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Old 08-02-17, 03:06 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Donsell View Post
I rode the Niner tonight. It certainly is a beautiful bike and a great ride. I rode the 56 but pretty sure I need to move up to the 59. I'm going to take it on a longer ride next week before I decide.

Another factor in this is the service and time the Niner shop put in answering my questions and starting to get the fit right. They have demos of both the 56 and the 59. The Raleigh shop didn't really know anything about the Tamland. The Raleigh shop isn't bad by any means, but they didn't know this product.
You won't be disappointed with an RLT. If you overpay, you'll rationalize it. (I did/do.)

But I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Tamland either. I know that if I had known about the corporate codes for Raleigh when I was shopping, I would have bought one of their adventure bike offerings instead of the Niner.
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Old 08-02-17, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Who in LNK deals Raleigh?

Method Cycles also has beers and coffees out front
Salty Dog Cycles on O Street.

Yeah Method is a great shop!
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Old 08-02-17, 07:33 PM
  #45  
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I heard back from the Niner shop on the price for a 105 Niner build. $4000. Ouch.

I'm not sold on the Apex 1 build. The Rival 2x build is $700 more and just at the top of my price range, but with a better groupset, better wheels and a better seat post.

I did some more shopping and found the Jamis Exploit which seems perfect. I may have to wait for the '18 model and hope they don't drop for 105s for an Apex 1 like seems to be the trend or just buy the Niner with the Rival group.
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Old 08-02-17, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Donsell View Post
I heard back from the Niner shop on the price for a 105 Niner build. $4000. Ouch.

I'm not sold on the Apex 1 build. The Rival 2x build is $700 more and just at the top of my price range, but with a better groupset, better wheels and a better seat post.

I did some more shopping and found the Jamis Exploit which seems perfect. I may have to wait for the '18 model and hope they don't drop for 105s for an Apex 1 like seems to be the trend or just buy the Niner with the Rival group.
Whew. Ouch indeed.

-Frameset/headset: $1500
-105 mechanical group $ 425, 105 hydraulic for $530
-Handbuilts from ProWheelbuilder: $450-500 to get some decent hoops
-Tires/tubes: $100
-bars/stem/tape/cages/saddle: $300 lets say.


Could do that for $3K yourself. Ever built a bike?


$4K for 105 is indeed ouch...I built my Carver Di2 for only a bit more.
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Old 08-02-17, 08:18 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Donsell View Post
I heard back from the Niner shop on the price for a 105 Niner build. $4000. Ouch.
Wow thats nuts. Its a bike for exploring and getting out on gravel...it isnt something elite.
Poster Marcus has it right- build it yourself if you need the niner. Since you would be just buying wheels, everything else is plug-n-play. A handful of specialized tools is all you need and if there is a coop/collective in Lincoln, they should have everything needed for use.

You could spec it exactly how you want. Youtube, sheldon brown, parktool, and this forum are all you need for any reference and help.
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Old 08-02-17, 08:29 PM
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I've never built a bike. I've wanted to be better at mechanics and that'd probably be a good way to learn.

I should look at more frames than the Niner though. There has to be good steel options.
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Old 08-02-17, 08:50 PM
  #49  
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Building a bike yourself is cheaper than hiring a professional to build it for you. Imagine that!

Buying a complete bike is cheaper than buying a frame and buying essentially equivalent parts because of the buying power of the bike manufacturer. A sorry state of affairs exists in today's world where you can probably buy many components online for less than your friendly neighborhood bike shop can buy them at wholesale. Shimano is worse about this than most. The bike shop is probably not ripping you off. That said, before I'd pay $4000 for a 105 build, I'd get the 4 Star Ultegra build with carbon wheels for $4400 or the 3 Star Rival build for $3200.

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Old 08-02-17, 09:44 PM
  #50  
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Niner RLT 9 steel framesets were $1250 a few months ago.

Enduro Torqtite and Praxis bottom brackets literally slip into the PF30 shell and screw together. There is nothing to press and PF30 becomes a moot point.

@Donsell, too bad you are in Nebraska and I'm in Georgia otherwise I'd help you build up a sweet RLT 9 and bet we could do it for less than $3k.


-Tim-
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