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Ketogenic "Keto" Diet?

Old 05-18-18, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
This is one reason why some advocates of the diet recommend you abstain from training during the diet altogether.
I beleive you misunderstood that one.
Some experts recommend not training for the first two weeks of the diet, when you become "fat adapted", but once you're fat adapted you can, and should exercise/train.
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Old 05-20-18, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by munkeyfish View Post
Everything I have read says this diet is not great for burst energy or overly training. However it is good for long and steady. So keep that in mind.
Can you elaborate on that at all? My primary cycling passion is track sprinting. That is about as burst energy as you can get in cycling along with BMX. I also have a number of other track sprinters that I regularly converse with that also do low carb/keto. These guys (not me ) are worlds best level masters with records in their arsenal. When I went low carb I was smashing PBs out of the ballpark week in week out. I think it's a great diet for power work, but you have to mindful of the ceiling at which keto can't provide the necessary fuel to keep performing and that is sustained high level output. If you know about it, it's easily supplemented with carbs when necessary
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Old 05-21-18, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Turzy View Post
I believe you misunderstood that one.
Some experts recommend not training for the first two weeks of the diet, when you become "fat adapted", but once you're fat adapted you can, and should exercise/train.
Nope, (see the part that came after). It refers to one specific form of keto diet.
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Old 05-21-18, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Nope, (see the part that came after). It refers to one specific form of keto diet.
PSMF is not a form of keto diet.
PSMF is a very low calorie (800 kcal/day) diet, with calories coming mostly from protein.
On a keto diet, most calories come from fat; and you don't cut back that much on keto.

I do see how it can be confusing. They even state PSMF as a form of keto, while I don't agree with that, I must admit Keto and PSMF share the low carb part.
On a PSMF diet, the low carb states is derived from the low cal intake.
You can be in ketosis without being on a keto diet.

How a keto diet works (summarized)
1- Getting into ketosis (lower your carb intake to or bellow 20 grams/per day of net carbs, usually, you also lower your protein intake, and up the fat intake to satiety);
2- become fat adapted (your body is now using fat as its primary source of fuel)
3- for weightloss, use your fat intake as a lever, keeping your carb and protein intakes the same. Lowering your dietary fat intake will have your body burn your body fat as a source of available fuel.
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Old 05-21-18, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Turzy View Post
PSMF is not a form of keto diet.
PSMF is a very low calorie (800 kcal/day) diet, with calories coming mostly from protein.
On a keto diet, most calories come from fat; and you don't cut back that much on keto.
Send emails to the authors and bring them up to your standards:

The Psmf Diet or Protein Sparing Modified Fast is a ketosis-based way of eating designed to invoke rapid and significant weight loss in just weeks with minimal exercise.

This modified fast is set up so that your body reaches ketosis or a state in which your body is forced to use your own fat for fuel.

PSMF Diet Ė Protein Sparing Modified Fast


Technically, the PSMF will be ketogenic because a significant amount of body fat will be burned due to a restricted energy intake.

optimal protein sparing modified fast foods & meals (PSMF)

Apart from the very low calories, this diet follows a very important principle that many might be familiar with in our day and time. That little magic trick is called Ketosis and itís what Protein-Sparing is all about.

Protein Sparing Modified Fasting for Rapid Weight Loss

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Old 05-21-18, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Send emails to the authors and bring them up to your standards:

The Psmf Diet or Protein Sparing Modified Fast is a ketosis-based way of eating designed to invoke rapid and significant weight loss in just weeks with minimal exercise.

This modified fast is set up so that your body reaches ketosis or a state in which your body is forced to use your own fat for fuel.

PSMF Diet Ė Protein Sparing Modified Fast


Technically, the PSMF will be ketogenic because a significant amount of body fat will be burned due to a restricted energy intake.

optimal protein sparing modified fast foods & meals (PSMF)

Apart from the very low calories, this diet follows a very important principle that many might be familiar with in our day and time. That little magic trick is called Ketosis and itís what Protein-Sparing is all about.

Protein Sparing Modified Fasting for Rapid Weight Loss

geez, you don't have to be so aggressive, I was just sharing my point of view...
Yes, they do share the ketosis state, and you know what? we're all in ketosis when we wake up after a good night of sleep...
A Ketogenic is HIGH in FAT, the PSMF is NOT.
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Old 05-24-18, 09:45 PM
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Isn't this keto diet very controversial and have many experts who say it can be dangerous as well as being very hard to follow?
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Old 05-25-18, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tunavic View Post
Isn't this keto diet very controversial and have many experts who say it can be dangerous as well as being very hard to follow?
Yes, but you can say that for any diet. No one diet can work well for everyone. That's why there's so many to choose from. So many characteristics vary from person to person.

It all depend on the individual, their goal, and how much fat they want or need to lose. Also, if they have any preexisting ailment and/or genetic/hormonal issues. Even environment and lifestyle can determine which diet works best for you.
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Old 05-25-18, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tunavic View Post
Isn't this keto diet very controversial and have many experts who say it can be dangerous as well as being very hard to follow?
I find this a touch ironic since the standard american diet is easy to follow and unquestionably dangerous. I suppose anything in extremes can have issues but any "expert" claiming putting your body into fat burning mode is dangerous for the average mostly healthy american is ridiculous.
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Old 05-25-18, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Yes, but you can say that for any diet. No one diet can work well for everyone. That's why there's so many to choose from. So many characteristics vary from person to person.

It all depend on the individual, their goal, and how much fat they want or need to lose. Also, if they have any preexisting ailment and/or genetic/hormonal issues. Even environment and lifestyle can determine which diet works best for you.
Agreed.
I think it's also what makes dieting difficult for some people, not finding the right diet, the one that fits their goals/needs.
Anyone dieting needs to find the right diet for themselves. It's not a one size fits all kind of thing.
Just like there is no one diet that's superior to the others...just find what works for you.
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Old 05-25-18, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DeceptivelySlow View Post
I find this a touch ironic since the standard american diet is easy to follow and unquestionably dangerous. I suppose anything in extremes can have issues but any "expert" claiming putting your body into fat burning mode is dangerous for the average mostly healthy american is ridiculous.
And off you go in a tangent. Who said anything about an "American diet"? And is there such a thing?

Even in this discussion there is a lot of disagreement so your dismissal of anyone questioning the safety of a keto diet is disingenuous.
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Old 05-28-18, 08:36 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Jarrett2 View Post
For those of you reading through this thread, please be aware that based on what he is posting here, KraneXL is not very knowledgeable about the latest research on ketogenic diets. Some of what he is saying shows he is confused on some of the facts, other things he is saying are just flat wrong.

If you are truly interested in what the diet is all about, please do some Google searches and look for the various MD's and Phd's that recommend and offer information about the current state of the low carb and ketogenic diets. It's not dangerous, its not new and it works very well for a number of people. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info.
On Aug 27,2016 I was diagnosed T2 diabetic. I was weighting 278 lbs ,high blood pressure,.cholesterol and had sleep apnea. Endocrinologist sat me down and suggested low carbs and weight loss. If in 3 mths I did not improve my medical profile ,would prescribe insulin....I googled the issues and found several interesting programs. Diet Doctor,and Dr Jason Fung YouTube videos. Both Keto diet to lower A1C approach. I also purchased a road bike. Long story short ,lost 74lbs. ,sleep well and rested. more energy.I ride 20-30 miles 2-4 times a week weather permitting . avg 15mph. with sprints of 20-22 mph. Am 65 yrs old.
Would like to bring weigh dwn to 170 lbs and increase my mph to 17-18 ,perhaps do a century.
Looks like I have stuck my self in 204 for past 2 mths. Is it to much protein .Do you guys adjust as your weigh goes down? wondering if to much protein could be the culprit
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Old 05-28-18, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CMBravo View Post
On Aug 27,2016 I was diagnosed T2 diabetic. I was weighting 278 lbs ,high blood pressure,.cholesterol and had sleep apnea. Endocrinologist sat me down and suggested low carbs and weight loss. If in 3 mths I did not improve my medical profile ,would prescribe insulin....I googled the issues and found several interesting programs. Diet Doctor,and Dr Jason Fung YouTube videos. Both Keto diet to lower A1C approach. I also purchased a road bike. Long story short ,lost 74lbs. ,sleep well and rested. more energy.I ride 20-30 miles 2-4 times a week weather permitting . avg 15mph. with sprints of 20-22 mph. Am 65 yrs old.
Would like to bring weigh dwn to 170 lbs and increase my mph to 17-18 ,perhaps do a century.
Looks like I have stuck my self in 204 for past 2 mths. Is it to much protein .Do you guys adjust as your weigh goes down? wondering if to much protein could be the culprit
Well you didn't mention how much protein you're taking in or your height and activity level for any calculation. There are many calculators out there to check however.

In any event, the most important thing to keep in mind is that you body adapts to whatever diet and/or training routine you institute, so its important to vary it every so often to keep it effective. Do you have an anaerobic routine or have you tried any fat burners?

Anyway, there are many paths or combinations to choose from, so pick the ones that best suits your lifestyle and goal. Also you might check out The Hierarchy of Fat Loss, it might provide some additional useful tidbits.
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Old 05-28-18, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Well you didn't mention how much protein you're taking in or your height and activity level for any calculation. There are many calculators out there to check however.

In any event, the most important thing to keep in mind is that you body adapts to whatever diet and/or training routine you institute, so its important to vary it every so often to keep it effective. Do you have an anaerobic routine or have you tried any fat burners?

Anyway, there are many paths or combinations to choose from, so pick the ones that best suits your lifestyle and goal. Also you might check out The Hierarchy of Fat Loss, it might provide some additional useful tidbits.
Sorry about that. Im 5ī7" currently @204. I do not measure exact amounts,but in my estimates on daily basis try to limit carbs to less than 20% ,60%fat and 20%-30%protein. surely some days will be less and or higher than others.no more than 1800 calories per day. My level of activities is distributed between walking my 120 lbs rottweiler or he walks me 2-3 times a day 15-20 minutes and bike rides 2-4 times per week on avg 20-30 miles per ride. Like I Stated before ,it has worked for me. what am contemplating is tweaking the %,maybe reducing calories ,although do not want to sacrifice energy levels or bunk as a result . Anyhow its a journey ! thanks for your interest and response.
thanks for the links on fat loss .will check them out
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Old 06-06-18, 05:26 PM
  #90  
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I have been doing keto for a few years now. I love it. I am now very comfortable exercising fasted every afternoon, and never feel any ill effects. That was an unthinkable prospect in the past. I did find it took ~6 months to be able to perform high intensity exercise and lifting, but as far as I understand it your body needs to normalize its glycogen levels through gluconeogensis before those activities feel normal again.
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Old 06-07-18, 04:17 AM
  #91  
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Now that I have been doing Keto for over 6 months I find I have plenty of energy. Two days ago I go up and lifted, then did a 25 mile ride all fasted and could have done more if I had the time.
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Old 06-07-18, 04:18 AM
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Old 06-07-18, 09:51 AM
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Congrats
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Old 06-08-18, 01:18 PM
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An interesting short on the importance of individual diet plans. The biggest mistake people make is to adopt a diet not suite for their goal. Dietitians exist because there are many difference kinds of people with different goals and/or conditions. No one diet will work best for everyone.
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Old 06-10-18, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Dr. Galpin argues Joe on keto diet



An interesting short on the importance of individual diet plans. The biggest mistake people make is to adopt a diet not suite for their goal. Dietitians exist because there are many difference kinds of people with different goals and/or conditions. No one diet will work best for everyone.
Good link and quite interesting. What I get out of it is pay attention to whatís going on. Listen to your body, it will tell you if you are doing the right thing or not. I did 5/2 a few years ago, and while it is a great documented wellness diet, it definitely didnít fit in with my active lifestyle. Low carb/keto on the other hand did. I can train hard, lose weight, and improve performance. I just wish I was stronger willed to be long term focused. I think the problem last time I was very strict was that I tied it to my training, and as soon as my big focal event for the year was done and I went into off season mode, the diet went off season too.
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Old 06-10-18, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post


Good link and quite interesting. What I get out of it is pay attention to what’s going on. Listen to your body, it will tell you if you are doing the right thing or not. I did 5/2 a few years ago, and while it is a great documented wellness diet, it definitely didn’t fit in with my active lifestyle. Low carb/keto on the other hand did. I can train hard, lose weight, and improve performance. I just wish I was stronger willed to be long term focused. I think the problem last time I was very strict was that I tied it to my training, and as soon as my big focal event for the year was done and I went into off season mode, the diet went off season too.

Speaking of IF, being a hardgainer I though it would be impossible for me to sustain this protocol but after a rather rough beginning (I felt I was going mad with hunger), I find only good things to say about it.

In fact, I've even moved to 3-4 days/week of 24 hour fasts just to see if I could. Still nothing negative to report although I must admit I only do this on my anaerobic exercise days.

It just takes the body a little time (and discipline) to transition, but it really is all psychological. It would take weeks to actually reach a level of starvation; and 90% of Americans have enough excess fat to last for months. Like any diet, IF can be incorporated into Keto if it fits your goal.

Last edited by KraneXL; 06-11-18 at 10:22 AM. Reason: made to "mad"
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Old 06-11-18, 04:37 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Speaking of IF, being a hardgainer I though it would be impossible for me to sustain this protocol but after a rather rough beginning (I felt I was going made with hunger), I find only good things to say about it.

In fact, I've even moved to 3-4 days/week of 24 hour fasts just to see if I could. Still nothing negative to report although I must admit I only do this on my anaerobic exercise days.

It just takes the body a little time (and discipline) to transition, but it really is all psychological. It would take weeks to actually reach a level of starvation; and 90% of Americans have enough excess fat to last for months. Like any diet, IF can be incorporated into Keto if it fits your goal.
I do IF and have had no problems sticking to it. It is my one saving grace and likely the only reason my weight didnít blow out. I weight 125kg now, but despite that weight, Iím now carrying a similar level of body fat to when I was 110kg. I have spent a good 6months now on solid heavy gym lifting.

Back when I trialed 5/2 I was quite literally scared at the prospect of consuming just 550 I calories in a day. I kind of jumped in the deep end with that diet due to mitigating family history health risk factors, but it knocked down some big mental barriers for me in relation to eating and really paved a way forward for me with understanding food, and how it affects the body
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Old 06-27-18, 01:45 PM
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Just sharing my own experience. I've been doing Keto + IF for two months now. I cycled all winter indoors on Zwift, put in about 1000kms, but over the winter still gained another 8lbs or so even with riding 50-80kms per week all winter. Since I started IF with keto the end of April I've shed 28lbs now, and I've had no drop in my power! I did an FTP test back in March and another last week and I've gone from 180w to 183w, I was hoping to just not drop power. The first week was rough - felt like a flu, but now I feel like I have the energy I always assumed people were lying about having Anyhow I saw this thread and discussion and thought I'd chime in, I couldn't be happier having tried this out now after slowly gaining weight over the last 15 years. The hills are still rough, but much better than they were 3 months ago.
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Old 06-27-18, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post


I do IF and have had no problems sticking to it. It is my one saving grace and likely the only reason my weight didnít blow out. I weight 125kg now, but despite that weight, Iím now carrying a similar level of body fat to when I was 110kg. I have spent a good 6months now on solid heavy gym lifting.
As am I. Although I just passed 3 years now after a gap of 8 years of inactivity due to an injury. Its a challenge with the pain and all, but I have the pain whether I exercise or not. So its not like it hurts any more, and sometimes, even less. Besides, adding muscle is a good solution to fat loss.

Back when I trialed 5/2 I was quite literally scared at [the prospect of consuming just 550 I calories in a day. I kind of jumped in the deep end with that diet due to mitigating family history health risk factors, but it knocked down some big mental barriers for me in relation to eating and really paved a way forward for me with understanding food, and how it affects the body
I did that as well as a jump-start to the fat I had accumulated from 8 years of inactivity. Still, its something I did on my own, but is not healthy, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else.

To be honest IF is tough (and likely for 90% of the population) because as modern humans we grew up with the ease of eating. We're the first group in the history of mankind to be able to eat literally 24/7. Getting used to doing otherwise for all but a few of us, is a hard habit to break.

Of course, the fasting is not the diet but the protocol that aids us in achieving our fat loss goal. The good news about using fasting. however, is that its good for much more than just fat loss. It serves as an enhancement in many ways including the mind, body and soul.
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Old 06-28-18, 11:57 AM
  #100  
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Keto works.
It's important to realize that everyone's metabolism is different.
Some are finding that 3-4 cups of coffee daily accelerate the process.
I have no studies to cite, but I trust the anecdotal feedback from friends I respect.
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