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New Canyon Gravel/Trail bike to be released tomorrow...

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

New Canyon Gravel/Trail bike to be released tomorrow...

Old 06-18-18, 09:27 AM
  #51  
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Damn. That's about as positive of a review as I've read about any bike. Seems like the author works for Canyon ;-) It does line up with all the other reviews I've read, e.g. the "I think it looks ridiculous" comments from the guys who've only seen pictures and the "Loved the ride" reviews from those who've ridden it.

Thanks for posting that!
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Old 06-18-18, 09:52 AM
  #52  
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Old 06-18-18, 09:58 AM
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It lines up well with my experience. I rode everything I could get my hands on, but nothing made me smile like the Canyon (in spite of those saying they could never ride a bike that looked like that). I'm glad they started selling in the US, because importing is a PITA (even with a German wife).
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Old 06-20-18, 06:59 AM
  #54  
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I just read a bunch of reviews of the Grail last night before bed. The general consensus seems to be it's *amazing*. Ended up having dreams about it. Seriously. Woke up with my wallet glowing in the dark with need to buy one.

People who have canyons: how in the name of dog do you figure out what size you need? The don't give you ETT, and their "reach+" doesn't seem to make the slightest sense! (I need a reach in the 370mm vicinity. How do you figure that from their numbers?) I can't go by height "guesstimates" because I have really long legs and generally have to go one size down to fit my short torso. HALP!
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Old 06-20-18, 08:35 AM
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They are amazing. I totally didn't expect this, but I've been regularly breaking KOMs and PRs on my Canyon (Inflite). Its consistently 10% faster than my other bikes (aluminum) on climbs or tight courses. Everything in the review reads true.

I hear ya on fit.

Ah, I see, Grail doesn’t have top tube length. Oops. You could look at the endurance, as I think that has very similar geometry? That is what I did as my Inflite has a long top tube and short stem, so I couldn’t go off of top tube length (although I prefer cockpit length (handlebar reach)).

I could do some trig to figure out the Grail cockpit, but…

Here is what I have found.

Their fit calculator is worthless.

Their rider height is spot on. Pick your size based on height. You can always call/email them with specific questions. (although some answers are hit or miss on email – I don’t think they know things like standover height). They were super helpful on the phone.

I’m between sizes, and Canyon has an excellent return policy. So, I bought my bike in two sizes, rode them both, and returned the one that didn’t fit (100% return policy in 30 days if the bike is in “like new” sellable condition.
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Old 06-20-18, 11:17 AM
  #56  
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Chas58's experience mirrors mine - their fit guide seems way the &$#*@ off. I'm barely over 6'0" and had been fitted on a 61cm road bike (yeah, really long legs) twice by different fitters. But, lately have been happily riding 58s - albeit with a lot of seatpost and a 120mm stem. So, I got a "58" or XL Grail. It feels bigger than my 58cm Scott Foil, but is still not as big as my 61cm Scott Addict. So, I ended up getting lucky with the Grail's size.

My friend - after hearing all about my Grail - just bought an Ultimate. He's always ridden 58s. He's exactly 6' with just slightly long legs. But the XL Ultimate was way too big. We assembled. He sat on it. Said "Holy S***!" and we put it back in the box. He's currently waiting for a L "56" to become available. Canyon's fit guide said he and I should be on Mediums.

My only advice - assuming you can't hop on a friend's Canyon - is to consider that the Canyon's appear to run big. If you're on the fence, grab the smaller of the two.

Oh, and unpack the bike how we did: Open the box, take a picture. Remove a strap, label it and take a picture. Etc. Etc. We literally labeled every strap/pad and took lots of pics. It slowed the unpacking. But, we had it back in the box in 5 min.
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Old 06-20-18, 02:22 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Chas58's experience mirrors mine - their fit guide seems way the &$#*@ off. I'm barely over 6'0" and had been fitted on a 61cm road bike (yeah, really long legs) twice by different fitters. But, lately have been happily riding 58s - albeit with a lot of seatpost and a 120mm stem. So, I got a "58" or XL Grail. It feels bigger than my 58cm Scott Foil, but is still not as big as my 61cm Scott Addict. So, I ended up getting lucky with the Grail's size.

My friend - after hearing all about my Grail - just bought an Ultimate. He's always ridden 58s. He's exactly 6' with just slightly long legs. But the XL Ultimate was way too big. We assembled. He sat on it. Said "Holy S***!" and we put it back in the box. He's currently waiting for a L "56" to become available. Canyon's fit guide said he and I should be on Mediums.

My only advice - assuming you can't hop on a friend's Canyon - is to consider that the Canyon's appear to run big. If you're on the fence, grab the smaller of the two.

Oh, and unpack the bike how we did: Open the box, take a picture. Remove a strap, label it and take a picture. Etc. Etc. We literally labeled every strap/pad and took lots of pics. It slowed the unpacking. But, we had it back in the box in 5 min.
I'd have to have the ceiling on my credit card to make buying two bikes work, lol. I don't. Sob.

But @Zaskar, if you have really long legs, you should, like me, need a shorter top tube/reach! Why were those fitters putting you on such huge bikes? I'm 5'9" with a 34" inseam, and it took me a while to realize I needed to size the bike by my torso--I have the torso of someone about 5'6" or 5'7"!

Anyway, looking at the Endurace vs the Grail, it really looks like the "reach+" is just a measurement to the bars--so reach plus stem, basically. I'm thinking I might be able to subtract the stem length from the "reach+" to get the standardized reach number. Does that make sense?

If I do that, the SM Grail appears to have a shorter reach than the Endurace? (439-75=364, vs 376 for the Endurace.) 364 is a little short for me, I think, without the ability to put a longer stem on, but the next size up seems too long. It's all a little crazy, because it's not like you can just fit a longer/shorter stem to make it work for you! GO HOME CANYON, YOU'RE DRUNK!

Now, the Endurace, I could fit either a XS or SM. They sit right around my Domane. (I'm on a 52 with a 100mm stem rather than the 90mm that came with it; making the "reach+" 371 +10mm = 471)

This is going to take some pondering, I guess. (Not that I have the money right now. Lol. But I will in a week or so, hopefully. And the grail is REALLY compelling! Most interesting bike I've seen in a long time!)
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Old 06-21-18, 07:14 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Wheever View Post
... if you have really long legs, you should, like me, need a shorter top tube/reach! Why were those fitters putting you on such huge bikes?
I asked the same question. Something about the Scott Addict (Scott's race frame) having aggressive geometry, short top tube... Don't really remember the specifics, but it worked. That was 9 years and 50,000 road miles ago. I've gotten more comfortable in a more aggressive position and love the setup of the new Grail and the sorta new Scott Foil:



By comparison, the Grail is more relaxed - more upright. When it's time to re-cable and re-wrap the Grail's bar, I'll nudge the shifters down a little. That's how Canyon set it up. It's comfortable, but I want to see how with them just a little bit lower.


Last edited by Zaskar; 06-21-18 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 06-21-18, 09:44 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
I asked the same question. Something about the Scott Addict (Scott's race frame) having aggressive geometry, short top tube... Don't really remember the specifics, but it worked. That was 9 years and 50,000 road miles ago. I've gotten more comfortable in a more aggressive position and love the setup of the new Grail and the sorta new Scott Foil:



By comparison, the Grail is more relaxed - more upright. When it's time to re-cable and re-wrap the Grail's bar, I'll nudge the shifters down a little. That's how Canyon set it up. It's comfortable, but I want to see how with them just a little bit lower.

All that matters is that it works for ya!

Those are both beautiful bikes, Brother! I love that copper color for the Grail.
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Old 06-21-18, 02:45 PM
  #60  
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@Zaskar Yeah, based on my height and discussion with Canyon rep, I was targeted for a small. I’m thinking: since when is 54cm a “small”??? But they are a little bigger than you would expect.



Yes, I meticulously photographed the unboxing so I could rebox the bike. If you do a return, they will send you a video on how to rebox, but I just used my photos.

The difficult thing about the Inflite and the Grail, is that they are road bikes with long top tubes and super short stems (75-80cm). I used the endurance as a “sanity check” since it has a more traditional top tube and stem length.


@Wheever I’m 5’9” and 36” inseam, fairly normal proportioned. I fit fine on the small (I typically ride 54cm). we are kind of between sizes, and the handle bar reach on my bike is a little shorter than I am used to, but it works out well (bars are a little lower, and a little shorter than my previous bike). Sizing up and using a 10cm shorter stem (increasing Handlebar height (stack) and reach) worked pretty well too, but the standover on the inflite didn’t work out well on the medium (it has a very high top tube).
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Old 06-22-18, 06:46 AM
  #61  
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It'd be great to build a network of Canyon riders for fits and test rides. This happens all the time in the Land Cruiser (and surely with other cars/trucks) world - thinking about doing a suspension swap, wanting to see how it looks and drives... meet up with a guy with the same truck/modifications and confirm before spending a bunch of money. Seems like a crazy idea, until you think about Uber, AirBnB, Turo...
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Old 06-22-18, 10:22 AM
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Well, Ralpha has a fleet of them you can use. AFAIK its only in the EU though.. :-( Or if you are in CA (or Karlsberg) you can stop by the showroom.

I agree. Canyon is new to US, so they still are working on improving things. I've only seen 2 of them around here on my rides (and one is from a German National). they make interesting conversation pieces at this point...

I don't know what they feed those guys for breakfast/lunch, but they always seem to be in such a good mood when I talk to them on the phone
(quite a contrast to the IT help guy who is overseas and says his name is "Sam" because you couldn't pronounce his real name, LOL).
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Old 09-29-18, 08:33 AM
  #63  
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Hi Zaskar - bike looks awesome and I'm 90% decided on getting one.

Is that an XL?
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Old 09-29-18, 08:40 AM
  #64  
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Sorry, ignore me. I just re-read the thread
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Old 10-01-18, 07:31 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Rich72 View Post
Sorry, ignore me. I just re-read the thread
Ignore you?! How 'bout "Welcome to the club."

Coincidentally, I rode the Grail this morning. Still loving this bike. My club is up to three Canyons - two are former Trek guys ;-)
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Old 10-07-18, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Ignore you?! How 'bout "Welcome to the club."

Coincidentally, I rode the Grail this morning. Still loving this bike. My club is up to three Canyons - two are former Trek guys ;-)
Cheers fella - happy to be here. Glad you're still enjoying the Grail.
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Old 10-15-18, 09:06 AM
  #67  
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Hey, what's the deal with the aluminum Grail release? Just saw it pop up on Instagram but very little info and I can't find much other than a once speculated release date of Sept/Oct 2018. Any insight here?
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Old 11-07-18, 04:58 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by str8jakett View Post
Hey, what's the deal with the aluminum Grail release? Just saw it pop up on Instagram but very little info and I can't find much other than a once speculated release date of Sept/Oct 2018. Any insight here?
Its out now. Should be on their web site. Looks really nice, reasonably priced, and had a traditional handlebar. Looks like it has some hydro formed aluminum, not just the round tube stuff.
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Old 11-07-18, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Its out now. Should be on their web site. Looks really nice, reasonably priced, and had a traditional handlebar. Looks like it has some hydro formed aluminum, not just the round tube stuff.
I had been watching for it and when Bike Radar got a preview, I could tell it was going to tick a lot of boxes for me. Now that the full specs are out, it ticks every box plus some I didn't know I wanted, except color options. It won't be available in the US until 12/26 according to Canyon. I'm trying to figure out why there is almost a $200 difference between the European/US model (I want the 7.0 SL) after the currency conversion, and before shipping costs go on top of that.
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Old 11-08-18, 08:34 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by str8jakett View Post
Hey, what's the deal with the aluminum Grail release? Just saw it pop up on Instagram but very little info and I can't find much other than a once speculated release date of Sept/Oct 2018. Any insight here?
No insight, just comments since you brought this to my attention.

that women's copper version is an awesome color.
that grail is a sharp looking bike and one of the very few I would consider when it comes to spec/price and not being steel.
fantastic size range. really cool to see that. love that they can get it to fit someone 5'2 and someone 6'5. and even better- properly fit with 650 wheels on the smaller sizes to allow for more ideal geometry(no absurdly steep seat tube) and less chance of toe overlap.
lame press fit bottom bracket. its aluminum...there is just 0 reason for pres fit.


ETA- forgot to mention the reach measurements! oh my goodness the reach is nuts! The XXL is 644mm stack and 440mm reach?!? Thats some serious reach.

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Old 11-08-18, 09:16 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
...

ETA- forgot to mention the reach measurements! oh my goodness the reach is nuts! The XXL is 644mm stack and 440mm reach?!? Thats some serious reach.
Yeah, I wish they made an adventure/gravel bike with a little less aggressive geometry. I've definitely been searching for a more upright ride after having had an aggressive road bike for the past ten years, and the market seems to be moving in that direction, at least in the adventure bike category. Would love to support a brand like Canyon, but I don't think their current bikes would support my back!
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Old 11-08-18, 10:25 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Lava View Post
Yeah, I wish they made an adventure/gravel bike with a little less aggressive geometry. I've definitely been searching for a more upright ride after having had an aggressive road bike for the past ten years, and the market seems to be moving in that direction, at least in the adventure bike category. Would love to support a brand like Canyon, but I don't think their current bikes would support my back!
The smaller bikes have shorter than usual stems, so maybe that offsets a bit of the long frame reach.
the XXL uses a 100mm stem though, so i guess it could be shortened to 80mm for fit and still look 'normal' while not being too twitchy due to a really short stem.
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Old 11-08-18, 10:54 AM
  #73  
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Think I read somewhere that the long reach was partially corrected with stem length and it was somewhat related to keeping frame geometry close to the Grail carbon frame and double bar setup, although I haven't backed that up with any research. I'm not crazy about the press fit BB either but since I have two other PF frames, I guess it's time to buy a tool.
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Old 11-08-18, 10:57 AM
  #74  
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Long reach, slack headtube and short stem are used on mountain bikes for stability. Devinci does this with their Hatchet gravel bike. The Canyon could be similar.
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Old 11-08-18, 12:04 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
ETA- forgot to mention the reach measurements! oh my goodness the reach is nuts! The XXL is 644mm stack and 440mm reach?!? Thats some serious reach.
Frame reach and stack don't tell the whole story (handlebar reach/stack are what counts), and confuse people on bikes like this.
My bike has long reach, but short (80mm) stem, so it all balances out. I can't say that I can tell the difference but I love how it handles.
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