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New Canyon Gravel/Trail bike to be released tomorrow...

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

New Canyon Gravel/Trail bike to be released tomorrow...

Old 11-08-18, 02:16 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Long reach, slack headtube and short stem are used on mountain bikes for stability. Devinci does this with their Hatchet gravel bike. The Canyon could be similar.
True, but the XXL Grail HTA is 73.5 degrees and it comes with a 100mm stem. opposite of slack.with short stem.
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Old 11-08-18, 02:36 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Frame reach and stack don't tell the whole story (handlebar reach/stack are what counts), and confuse people on bikes like this.
My bike has long reach, but short (80mm) stem, so it all balances out. I can't say that I can tell the difference but I love how it handles.
Correct- stack and reach arent everything. This is why I mentioned the 100mm stem too- which while not long on its own, makes for a lot of effective handlebar reach when added to such a long frame reach measurement. Add in the 73.5 degree HTA and the stem certainly isnt starting close to the rider either.


Canyon building a frame with these measurements isnt good or bad- its just surprising to me. Not all bikes are meant to fit everyone, i know by experience as probably 50% of bikes in the largest size are too small for me. Everyone is different in their body measurements and its incredibly great that there are so many variations in frame geometry between brands and models as that increases the likelihood of more people finding a good fitting bike. I am sure there is someone in the 99th% for height who also has extremely long arms for their height and is on the search for a mass built frame that fits their crazy proportioned body. Boom- Canyon to the rescue!
I kid, I kid.

As mentioned already- a simple stem swap(nice on the AL since it uses a normal stem!) will help as it would drop from 100 to 80mm and still be a normal looking stem with not too twitchy handling from being too short.

It really is a sharp looking bike and one of very few from a look and value/price perspectives that I would consider if I were to want an aluminum gravel bike.
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Old 11-08-18, 03:38 PM
  #78  
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My Grail - an XL CF SL 8.0 - feels very relaxed compared to my road bikes (which helps you guys - zero). When I was researching and trying to compare a handful of bikes, the Canyon seemed the odd-man-out - where Canyon's measuring is not where other manufacturers are. Admittedly, I gave up and took the "Well, they have a 30-day return policy" if I didn't like the fit, and bought one. I love it. It was definitely more upright and more relaxed than I thought it was going to be. I've grown to like that aspect.
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Old 11-08-18, 05:09 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
My Grail - an XL CF SL 8.0 - feels very relaxed compared to my road bikes (which helps you guys - zero). When I was researching and trying to compare a handful of bikes, the Canyon seemed the odd-man-out - where Canyon's measuring is not where other manufacturers are. Admittedly, I gave up and took the "Well, they have a 30-day return policy" if I didn't like the fit, and bought one. I love it. It was definitely more upright and more relaxed than I thought it was going to be. I've grown to like that aspect.
Oh, that's certainly nice to know. Admittedly the reports I saw of aggressive geometry were going off of the geometry charts themselves, and like others have said, some of those numbers aren't the end all be all for fit.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:09 AM
  #80  
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Yep, I spent a lot of time trying to make sense of the numbers given that the handlebar relationship to the frame is significantly different than most bikes.

I compared to Canyon's endurance bike and the ultimate and inflite to get some more datapoints for someone my size. The grail seemed to fit more like a traditional endurance bike, where the inflite was a bit more aggressive.
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Old 11-13-18, 02:27 PM
  #81  
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Gravel vs Cyclocross. Which is better.

Warning - includes paid promotion to evaluate which is better: Canyon Grail vs Inflite. ;-)

Hint- Grail is faster on this course.
Although they really need to do these things on the same tires. I get tired of people saying the 33mm tired bike is slower when it is rough. Duh!


Last edited by chas58; 11-13-18 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 11-13-18, 03:06 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
Gravel vs Cyclocross. Which is better.

Warning - includes paid promotion to evaluate which is better: Canyon Grail vs Inflite. ;-)

Hint- Grail is faster on this course.
Although they really need to do these things on the same tires. I get tired of people saying the 33mm tired bike is slower when it is rough. Duh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRe3rMyw5F8
That's kind of the point though. You can drop a cx tire on the gravel bike but you can't drop a gravel tire on the cx bike. I wonder if the inflite would be faster than the grail with same cx tires on a cross course. There are bikes out there though that have a geometry in between gravel and cx and can take whatever.
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Old 11-13-18, 03:54 PM
  #83  
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That's kind of the point though. You can drop a cx tire on the gravel bike but you can't drop a gravel tire on the cx bike. I wonder if the inflite would be faster than the grail with same cx tires on a cross course. There are bikes out there though that have a geometry in between gravel and cx and can take whatever.
That is not my experience. Generally, you can put 40mm tire on a cross or gravel bike (i.e. the tire they had on the grail). Modern CX bikes can take gravel tires up to 40mm.

Tire size isn't an issue, unless you have a very old cross bike (limited to 35mm), or want to do 50mm x 650b. Either bike can take a 700x40mm though.

specifically, I run 40mm tires on my Inflite. If it is really rough or sandy, I'll go up to 50mm in the front (although I've put on a 60mm 650b on the front, that is a little big for my tastes. 54mm on the front allows me to rip on single track (obviously track where I don't need a suspension).

Going from 33mm to 40mm would easily drop my times by a minute on that rooty section.

I ride gingerly and really pick my lines on 33mm
I ride faster but still somewhat cautiously on the 40mm
I ride mountain bike speed on the 50 and 54mm tires (no holding back on that type of trail).

Last edited by chas58; 11-13-18 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 11-13-18, 04:02 PM
  #84  
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you can see how awkwardly they both shouldered the grail, also the 1x gearing being limiting
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Old 11-13-18, 04:20 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
you can see how awkwardly they both shouldered the grail, also the 1x gearing being limiting
That was just dumb of them, comparing a 1x (Inflite) to a 2x (Grail).

Obviously they did it because it is an infomercial, and the 1x Inflite is yellow and looks good in infomercials (The 2x is boring grey).


I have a 2x Inflite. I can (and do) hammer hard with Cat 1-3 riders on top tier racing road bikes (when I am on similar tires). Typically, those rides top out around 40mph, but I don't run out of gears.

50-53T chainrings are silly. I doubt any of us can accelerate a 50x11 gear, unless we are riding of a cliff.
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Old 11-14-18, 04:22 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
That was just dumb of them, comparing a 1x (Inflite) to a 2x (Grail).

Obviously they did it because it is an infomercial, and the 1x Inflite is yellow and looks good in infomercials (The 2x is boring grey).


I have a 2x Inflite. I can (and do) hammer hard with Cat 1-3 riders on top tier racing road bikes (when I am on similar tires). Typically, those rides top out around 40mph, but I don't run out of gears.

50-53T chainrings are silly. I doubt any of us can accelerate a 50x11 gear, unless we are riding of a cliff.
Quite easily spin out 50x11 in the CA hills, but that 34x30 is worth it going back up those hills
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Old 11-14-18, 10:30 PM
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That gcn vid is getting ripped on by chas, but it seemed great to me.
it highlighted differences between the two styles.

- large open area of triangle for CX.
- lower bb for gravel.
- lot of mount points for gravel.
- 1x gearing for CX vs 2x for gravel.

they also highlight how significant tire size is and why.

pretty helpful for all those who ask what the difference between CX and gravel bikes are.
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Old 11-15-18, 06:19 AM
  #88  
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Aw, I love the video. But the gearing and tire size are non issues. My Inflite has basically the same gearing and tire size at the Grail. So yeah, gearing and tire size are critical to me, but They have absolutely nothing to do with comparison of the two bikes.

The basic differences I have found are
- CX can turn much more aggressively and tightly, Gravel is more stable at graceful high speed turns (downhill, loose gravel)
- CX can pedal hard through a tight turn while I have to coast on a gravel bike (pedal strike).
- Gravel is more upright “endurance” geometry – comfortable for rides of 3 hours or more, CX is more aero.
- Gravel can typically do backpacking (strength, weight, mount points).

Redbull - I think you and I "spin out" at different RPM.

Last edited by chas58; 11-15-18 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 11-15-18, 11:21 AM
  #89  
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I think the problem with the video is that its presented as which is "better" but wasn't an apples to apples comparison. says more about appropriate tires and gearing as chas mentioned, rather than differences in frame geometry resulting in better performance
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