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My first set of Compass tires, $162.00 waste of money

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My first set of Compass tires, $162.00 waste of money

Old 05-11-18, 02:53 PM
  #51  
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Yeah, I have too many bikes to run them all tubless. Its pretty much required for anything I'm going to run at low pressure on a rough surface - to prevent pinch flats. Tires these days are so good, it is rare I get an actual puncture on a good tire.


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Engineers' joke: the great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!
and my implementation of standards is better than yours - I have the customization to prove it!
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Old 05-11-18, 03:22 PM
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Discussions about standards aside, it seems like one should be able to determine whether a combination of parts in hand will work without excessive danger.

A somewhat snug fit of the tire bead is desired here, if you are able to push a deflated but still mounted tire bead off the bead seat and into the well without any resistance, it's probably not tight enough for tubeless, right? So you could install the recommended amount of rim tape (usually two layers) to the bare rim, install the tire with a regular tube, and inflate/deflate. Test pushing the tire bead away from the edge of the rim, and if it's too loosey-goosey, add another layer of rim tape as recommended by Jan/Compass. Once you're satisfied with the fit of the bead you can try setting it up tubeless. Put in the eye protection and earplugs, and take the pressure up to the manufacturer's recommended max. Assuming that works, go a little beyond, looking for evidence that the tire is creeping. Sort of like finding out how far you can push a set of old straight-sided rims, really.

This is all with the caveat that I haven't actually played around with tubeless, myself. Not against it, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
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Old 05-11-18, 04:19 PM
  #53  
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@chas58, good one.
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Old 05-11-18, 04:43 PM
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The comments on this blog post are very interesting: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/...road-tubeless/

In addition to the potential BST/UST issue I am also now wondering if there is a point at which tires become too supple and the sidewalls supporting the bead too flimsy and loose to be used tubeless?
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Old 05-11-18, 05:40 PM
  #55  
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I had a 700x35 Panaracer Gravelking SK do the exact same thing, only I was doing about 20mph and my hoop ended up costing me about $90 to replace. Panaracer replaced the tire no questions asked, and I never even thought to bother them about the rim-- these are the costs of cycling. Lost a 700x35 Hutchinson Overide to a pair of drywall screws just a few months later. These things happen. I've had four tire failures (all different brands, no less) just this year.

I have probably around 1,000 miles on tubeless Gravelkings since-- just because one tire was defective doesn't mean they'll all be. I wouldn't boycott Compass because they initially didn't want to pay for the damaged rim. I wouldn't buy from them in the first place, because an $82 tire is just madness. The tires on my car didn't cost $82 each, and they're 245mm wide and last 30,000 miles.
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Old 05-11-18, 06:09 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by rpthomas View Post
I have to be fair and update that later today Compass contacted me through email and has agreed to pay for the damage. The LBS owner told me they talked to him and then agreed to pay. Seems fair to me and surprised me.

I'm a bit skeptical of them covering the rim damage because "its the right thing to do". If that was the case why didn't they do it when the OP notified them of the blowout and rim damage initially? I'm betting they saw(or heard about) the negative responses here(lots of possible buyers for their tires) to how they handled it and gave the OP what he wanted to stop the bad press; eyes on the bottom line, not doing whats right. Regardless, I'm glad the OP got reimbursed for the rim.

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Old 05-11-18, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I have been a critic of Jan Heine/Compass...
0 surprise
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Old 05-11-18, 09:47 PM
  #58  
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I guess I’m a stubborn old goat but I use tubes and ride with 2 extra tubes and a patch kit with a lezyne air pump and a backup CO2 charger with about 4 cartridges and tires boots Over the years I have become proficient at fixing flats in the middle of nowhere. I have WTB tubeless rims with 700x40 Nanoraptors and have had no flats. But I know I eventually will and I am somewhat overkill in preparedness but I ride with the piece of mind I have plenty of tubes and 2 sources of air. Many times I have fixed unprepared cyclists flats in middle of nowhere areas and I refuse offers of money because I am just glad I could help. If all fail I have my I-phone I may have to walk a bit to find a signal
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Old 05-17-18, 11:25 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by calstar View Post
I'm a bit skeptical of them covering the rim damage because "its the right thing to do". If that was the case why didn't they do it when the OP notified them of the blowout and rim damage initially? I'm betting they saw(or heard about) the negative responses here(lots of possible buyers for their tires) to how they handled it and gave the OP what he wanted to stop the bad press; eyes on the bottom line, not doing whats right. Regardless, I'm glad the OP got reimbursed for the rim.

Brian
Maybe I'm cynical but sounds like pure BS to me. I seriously doubt they covered the rims at all. I am guessing the LBS messed something up and then when the customer did not accept it meekly like a typical sheep they decided to actually fix their work and then claimed the manufacturer changed their mind. I mean how would that even happen? Some exec looks at an old RMA/damages request and suddenly decided to cut a check? Also possible the LBS just decided to be nice for some reason without taking credit for it (I sometimes do things like that just so customer won't expect that kind of thing and try to take advantage later), but that seems less likely.
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Old 05-17-18, 11:59 AM
  #60  
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Jan Heine, of Compass Cycle, has an active online presence and often responds to threads about him and his products. Although not so much on Bikeforums anymore, he was recently posting on Paceline about the bicyclerollingresistance test of one of his tires.
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Old 05-17-18, 12:01 PM
  #61  
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How many Compass tires are sold direct vs being sold by bike shops?

Some business choices are done based on what is "right". Other choices are done based on what a business thinks will make them the most money. So, if a big store threatened to cancel all their orders and to carry a competitor's product, they company might quickly change their tune.

In this case, I would think nobody would be able to know for sure who was at fault. Compass, the LBS, or the Cyclist.

The wholesale cost of the rim is probably around $30. Perhaps Compass decided to pay for the rim and the LBS decided to kick in the labor to rebuild the wheel.
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Old 05-17-18, 12:09 PM
  #62  
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A tubeless tire that blows off a rim is almost always the fault of the tire or the installer.

In this case the lack of disclosure from the manufacturer about which competing tubeless standard the tires are made to as well as a suspect maximum tubeless pressure recommendation place more blame on Compass than any other party.
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Old 05-17-18, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I guess I’m a stubborn old goat but I use tubes and ride with 2 extra tubes and a patch kit with a lezyne air pump and a backup CO2 charger with about 4 cartridges and tires boots
I'm still a bit undecided. In the past I've gone with tubes. They're easy to work with. However, I'm working on a new rough road "touring" bike,

And, quite worried about the old goats... Well, the goat heads.

Plus, my riding tends to be a lot of miles, so efficiency is a benefit.

So, I'm wanting to try tubeless. Just a bit divided about:
  • Compass Rat Trap Pass (regular or extra light)
  • Schwalbe Fat Frank
  • Schwalbe Big Apple
  • Regular tube tires plus Panaracer FlatAway Tire Liners

Perhaps trying to mount the Schwalbes as tubeless.

Anyway, nothing is perfectly straight-forward.

And, yes, I'll have a spare pump, tubes, patch kit, sewing kit, and perhaps I'll carry a folding tire as a spare.
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Old 05-17-18, 12:24 PM
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Also consider your regular tubed set-up with 2-4 ounces of Orange Seal Endurance inside the tube. This has gotten very good reviews from riders when dealing with goat head thorns. Same protection as tubeless with only slight additional weight but none of the other hassles of setting up an actual tubeless system. Also rides significantly better than tire liners.
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Old 05-17-18, 03:19 PM
  #65  
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I've had problems with tire liners wearing through my tubes (chafing) and causing flats.
I've had tubes with sealant, but when I have a flat its usually a pinch flat on gravel, and sealant doesn't seal pinch flats. If you do go that route, use one of the non latex sealants that never dry out (finishline, slime, etc).
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Old 05-17-18, 03:32 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
snip . . . I wouldn't boycott Compass because they initially didn't want to pay for the damaged rim. I wouldn't buy from them in the first place, because an $82 tire is just madness. snip . . .
This.
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Old 05-17-18, 04:12 PM
  #67  
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I think some of you are being a little hard on Compass here. I have the Snoqualmies. They're awesome in every way, I love them.

1. I paid $124 for a set of the Standard tires, perhaps the OP got the Extralights? The $62/ tire I paid is certainly very high, but not ridiculous for specialty tires this size from a boutique brand (check out the prices on cross tubulars some time). $81 per tire is indeed ridiculous for most any tire, IMO.

2. 50 PSI is way too high for these tires, especially tubeless. I run mine tubed at 28-32 psi. It's true the tires are rated for 75 psi tubed and 60 psi tubeless but there's no reason to run them higher than 35 psi, IMO.

3. As others have said, tubeless setups are notorious for being finicky with different tire / rim combos. In my experience, the technology isn't ready for prime time in applications over about 40 psi. On any bike I've run tubeless, I much prefer to have extremely tight beads. At least on my rims, the Compass beads were far from tubeless tight.

4. Compass is pretty cagey about exactly how ready their tires actually are for tubeless. Note the weaselly "tubeless compatible" rating. This I do blame them for: either the tires are 100% tubeless ready or they're not.

Last edited by Hiro11; 05-17-18 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 05-25-18, 08:49 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
I think some of you are being a little hard on Compass here. I have the Snoqualmies. They're awesome in every way, I love them.

1. I paid $124 for a set of the Standard tires, perhaps the OP got the Extralights? The $62/ tire I paid is certainly very high, but not ridiculous for specialty tires this size from a boutique brand (check out the prices on cross tubulars some time). $81 per tire is indeed ridiculous for most any tire, IMO.

2. 50 PSI is way too high for these tires, especially tubeless. I run mine tubed at 28-32 psi. It's true the tires are rated for 75 psi tubed and 60 psi tubeless but there's no reason to run them higher than 35 psi, IMO.

3. As others have said, tubeless setups are notorious for being finicky with different tire / rim combos. In my experience, the technology isn't ready for prime time in applications over about 40 psi. On any bike I've run tubeless, I much prefer to have extremely tight beads. At least on my rims, the Compass beads were far from tubeless tight.

4. Compass is pretty cagey about exactly how ready their tires actually are for tubeless. Note the weaselly "tubeless compatible" rating. This I do blame them for: either the tires are 100% tubeless ready or they're not.

I agree with all of this. If you're running 50 psi in a road tire that large, you're defeating the purpose. Also, I don't understand people who are shocked that a lightweight skinwall tire isn't that durable. Supple comes at a cost.. Skinwall is not the same as gumwall. Oh you're running tubeless? Get a rim and tire that are designed for each other, otherwise don't get mad when it becomes a PITA. Basic stuff.
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Old 05-27-18, 07:47 PM
  #69  
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Would also recommend against Compass Tyres if you ride anything beyond pavement and buff rail trails.

1) Poor Durability:
Yes, they are more supple. They are dreamy to ride. It comes at a cost to durability if you ride anywhere outside of rail trails or pavement as they have 0 puncture protection. Am pretty light on my bike but managed to slash 2 x 38mm Barlow Pass (standard casing) on the sidewall 1.5cm and punctured the centre tread on the other on separate occasions (which I ad to use a tubeless plug to seal) after 3 months of riding a mixed bag of terrain. Another 6 months through winter (more debris) I've been running a comparable pair of 38mm Panaracer Gravelking (Slick) are looking pristine (and ridden through buff XC singletrack even more so). The Panaracers weigh less too (~60 less per tyre). The Compass weight more as it has more rubber down the centre tread for longer tyre life - but can't see the sidewall lasting the life of the tyre! For the majority of people gravel riding - a wee bit off the top of outright performance (which is what Compass Tyres are) for a wee bit more durability makes a hell of a lot more more sense as a balanced gravel tyre.

2) Annoying to set up tubeless:
They are harder to set up tubeless, but if you know the proper technique they're doable (manually beading the tyre first). They're also annoyingly sensitive to the type of sealant you use. They recommend Orange Seal as it coats the tyre in a film more so than any other sealant, which aids in sealing up the weeping thin sidewalls. You also need to be very careful to seal them up, and rest each wheel on a bucket for a few hours to ensure the whole sidewall gets sealed. Where as many other tyre manufactures seal up nicely with any sealant (Stans, Joes, Schwalbe which are also a good deal cheaper than Orange Seal) and only require a shake/spin in the bike. Probably why they are only rated to "tubeless compatible" rather than "tubeless ready" like Panaracer tyres.

3) Cost:
A pair of Barlow Pass tyres cost $200 AUD. Panaracer Gravel Kings are $100 AUD a pair.
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Old 05-28-18, 09:07 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I don't see how they can claim they're not responsible for damage that a defective product causes. Of course they're responsible. How can it be any other way?
I agree, can they at least replace the front wheel?
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Old 01-12-19, 12:08 AM
  #71  
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Similar experience with Compass F*ck those guys

Bought a set of Bon Jons and 3 flats in 12 miles. They offered a 20% discount on a new tire. That would be good money after bad...
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Old 01-12-19, 09:31 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by bmartinek View Post
Bought a set of Bon Jons and 3 flats in 12 miles. They offered a 20% discount on a new tire. That would be good money after bad...
Then again, I put ~1k almost exclusively gravel miles on my Snoqualmies before my first flat. Of course, my first flat on these tires happened to be a 3/4" cut that needed booting to finish the ride. I trashed the tire after limping home, $62 down the drain. The cut was somewhat my fault. I was on a very busy pavement section, got distracted and hit a small piece of metal debris. Bad luck all the way around.

Punctures can happen to any tire and are more often caused by pinches than anything else. I don't worry about punctures, especially with tubeless setups. What I worry about is ride-ending cuts. I would say that based on my experience, the Compass tires are definitely more prone to cuts than some other tires with more robust carcasses. I am lightweight and nicked a tiny piece of metal (it took me a couple of minutes to even find what I hit) and the tire basically catastrophically exploded. I ride about 6K miles a year and have never seen that on other tires. I will say that I went a long way with no issues on these tires despite some pretty hard use on rough gravel and rocks. There's clearly a trade-off here: creampuff dreamy ride quality for a bit of cut resistance. YMMV.
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Old 01-12-19, 09:48 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I don't see how they can claim they're not responsible for damage that a defective product causes. Of course they're responsible. How can it be any other way?
From their warranty page:

“Compass Bicycles Ltd. shall not be held liable for any indirect, special or consequential damages. There shall be no other warranties, implied or expressed”.
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Old 01-12-19, 09:54 AM
  #74  
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This thread put me off running them tubeless (along with reports that the sidewalls weep sealant), but between me and my wife, we have run 3 sets of them with tubes with zero issues/flats. I'm not sure I would want to tour with them, but for my normal riding, they have been a real improvement with an unreal ride quality, both on and off road. I have two wheelsets for my primary ride, one with 38mm slicks (Barlow Pass extra light), and the other with 38mm treads (Steilacoom TC). Both are mounted to HED Belgium Plus Disc Brake Clincher rims. The slick ones can handle all but the roughest off-road conditions, and the treaded ones only have a slight penalty on the road. The Steilacooms replaced WTB Nanos, and are vastly superior.

I also bought some Vittoria Corsa G+ graphene tires. One blew off the rim (fortunately while in the garage), with the tube. Unlike Compass, they were the most difficult tire to mount I have ever experienced, so it is likely I got a bit of tube pinched in there somehow. I found myself wishing I had bought Compass tires for that bike instead.

Last edited by wgscott; 01-12-19 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 01-12-19, 10:07 AM
  #75  
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See also: https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespe...e-warning.html
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