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I got nice frame. but what is it?

Old 09-24-18, 12:02 AM
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fdx
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I got nice frame. but what is it?

I made a good deal on very nice frame.
Raw steel - previous owner states it was never painted and frame is probably made in 1970's. (it could also be professionally stripped and cleaned but I can not see any at all sign of paint even in deepest darkest hole...

No serial number or any factory marks on it , only two marks on seat lug, but one is R (on the right side) and other is <F l> (on the left side so that can be just mark for sides and front of lug... ) Frame could be custom made, is quite small and has campagnolo dropouts.

I'm thinking of leave it as a raw steel (just a bit of polish). at the moment I rubbed boiled linseed oil just in case but there is no signs of rust on that frame - if its really from 70's that is quite unusual - specially in irish wet conditions...








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Old 09-24-18, 09:28 AM
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I don't know what is is, but the wraparound stay detail is often seen on English bikes. Based on the braze-ons (or lack thereof) I would guess it is mid-70's or earlier.
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Old 09-24-18, 10:02 AM
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The only braze-on is that little thing on chainstay.
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Old 09-24-18, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fdx View Post
The only braze-on is that little thing on chainstay.
And the over the BB cable guides. That and the chainstay stop are what I was referring to.
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Old 09-24-18, 01:46 PM
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The wraparound stay reminds me of Falcon, Carlton, raleigh and Urago.
But, it does not look quite right for any of them.

Last edited by gbi; 09-24-18 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 09-24-18, 09:07 PM
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I see a head badge hole. The hole pattern and distance between holes will help in identification.
Brent
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Old 09-24-18, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
I see a head badge hole. The hole pattern and distance between holes will help in identification.
Brent
Those holes are one inch apart, just top off the middle of head part.
I compared tubes to another bike that I know for sure it wasnt painted as I got raw frame from frame builder and I think this bike was painted before.
Someone did a really good job stripping and cleaning it (but was not sandblasted)

I usually dont really care what brand of bike I'm working on - especially that I usually got frames or whole bikes for free or very cheap. but I really wonder this time. If should I try to repaint it as it was sometime ago and try to restore it or just follow my imagination. like here:



Last edited by fdx; 09-24-18 at 11:43 PM. Reason: add some thoughts.
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Old 09-25-18, 06:07 AM
  #8  
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What's the threading? What's the seat post size?


There is a word, of which i see only four letters --[ . . . ] R E R A -- on the left side of the seat lug, just below where the seat stay is brazed on; they are filled with brass and filed smooth, with more letters presumably lost in the glare. Can you read them? They will probably only identify the lug manufacturer, rather than the frame manufacturer, but still... a good clue. I wonder what @juvela knows about this.

The long crimp on the outside of the drive side chain stay is pretty distinctive. I can't recall ever seeing that before. Should be a clue.

The same goes for the <FI> stamp on the seat lug.

It appears to be a very nice frame, and knowing who made it would probably enhance its value. But, that said, I can't identify it.
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Last edited by rhm; 09-25-18 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 09-25-18, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
What's the threading? What's the seat post size?


There is a word, of which i see only four letters --[ . . . ] R E R A --
I'll check thread and seatpost size in the evening.

Never realize that there are letters in there... I looked at the frame closely but not close enough... Need to take some strong light and investigate whole thing once more. maybe there will be some more clues.
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Old 09-25-18, 07:14 AM
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-----

You mention that ends set is Campag.

Is it a regular 1010 or something else?

From image of whole frame I would have guessed something else...but perhaps it is just me annuated occipital receptors...

Do fork ends match dropouts? They appear to be without eyelets like the rear. You could check both the front and rear for evidence of eyelet removal. This was a minor fad amongst enthusiasts at one time in the interest of "lightening." [think "Drewing"]

Frame appears to be conceived in a "sports - recreation" geometry rather than "racing" so the absence of eyelets is slightly surprising.

In Italian the F I marking is sometimes employed to indicate Filetaggio Inglese (English thread). This is moot here since it is pretty clear we are dealing with an anglophone product.

Excellent observations @rhm. Sorry I have little to contribute.

-----

Last edited by juvela; 09-25-18 at 07:26 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 09-25-18, 11:56 PM
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Seat post 28mm
Bottom bracket is slightly larger than english type. I'm unable to check what thread it is at the moment rought messure shows 35mm .

Sign on seat lug is ERRERA with possible F, H T or something on the front (there is one more line but cannot see what letter could
it be (or part of letter). google shows some results for Herrera that have something to do with bicycles. Most likely Herrera was a name of frame builder who made this frame.
(all I have to do is call all frame builders in the world asking to speak with Herrera guy...)

Dropouts campagnolo wth no sign of eyelets removal. front are campagnolo as well.


Last edited by fdx; 09-26-18 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 09-26-18, 12:13 AM
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-----

Thanks very much for the additional information and photos.

When @rhm asked about seat post size he was inquiring about the diameter of the seat post (saddle pillar). A size of 28.0mm would be a metric dimension seat tube outside diameter (part of frame). A frame constructed of BSC or Italian dimension tubes would have an outside diameter of the seat tube of 28.6mm. When taking measurements of this type it is prudent to check more than one spot as there can be irregularities due to brazing heat, etc.

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Old 09-26-18, 05:50 AM
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The stamping on the seat lug may indicate Giuseppe Ferrera, an Italian framebuilder who reportedly built some of Roger de Vlaeminck's frames, along with those for many Italian amateur teams. In the mid-1980s he was recruited by Jim Miele and came to Canada, where he set up and oversaw the Guvin manufacturing operations. He also designed the top Miele models. I'm not familiar with his pre-Miele work, so I can't say if this is one of his frames but it's a possibility based on the seat lug stamping.

Given the spring mounting hole in the rear dropout, I'd place the frame no later than very early 1970s.
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Old 09-26-18, 05:52 AM
  #14  
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-----

[mobile format software not permitting me to edit message, hence this addendum]

If tube set used to construct frame proves of metric dimension national origin possibilities are limited to BE (Walloon), CH, ES & FR.

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Old 09-26-18, 02:26 PM
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This frame looks like the work of Mario Peloso (Alessandria). Even though I don't have any pics of an exact match, I'd be surprised if it didn't come out of his shop.

Peloso built custom frames and generally would have initials of the customer (or another shop he built for - see the Suzzi frame below) stamped on the seat lug in the format seen on your frame.
Sometimes full first or last names would be stamped, some had "Peloso" and some had words like "Special" (not sure if those indicate some sort of model).
Perhaps on your frame the word was filled in with brass because the original order didn't go through as planned? Who knows.

Peloso head badges were attached with two horizontal rivets. The little port on the underside of the bottom bracket shell was also common on Peloso frames of the era.

You can find a bit more info on Peloso in this post by Mike Barry,
and another one that dovetails with it from an Italian who knew Peloso back in the day (it's in Italian so you'll have to use Google translate - just remember that any time you see the word "hairy" it's actually "Peloso" ).

Here are some examples, starting with one that has similar seat stay treatment (which wasn't common on Peloso frames) as well as the long chainstay crimp:











Suzzi by Peloso:
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Old 09-26-18, 02:57 PM
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Wow, MariceMoss seems like he solved it! Nice.
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Old 09-27-18, 02:19 AM
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Maurice. BIG BIG THANK YOU
it could be Mario Peloso work.
I'll try to investigate it a little more to confirm that if possible. or maybe someone (friends or family of Mario) would have some sort of record of his work. Maybe there is a chance to find out who was the first owner of this frame. (and how this frame end up in Cork in Ireland).

Hopefully we are now on a correct path to know the history of this frame...
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Old 09-28-18, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MauriceMoss View Post
This frame looks like the work of Mario Peloso (Alessandria).
I found someone in Alessandria on warmshowers website who will be so kind to ask around. maybe I'll find some more info about it.

Thank you again
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Old 10-25-18, 04:40 AM
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update for research.
I got in contact with Cosimo - 70yo bicycle mechanic who has small bicycle workshop in Spinetta Marengo near Alessandria, Italy
- he was working for Mario Peloso and after looking on pictures confirm that it is style of Peloso work, he confirmed that initials mark is Peloso work. He request for more photos and there is a hope I could find out when frame was built and who was the first owner.
Anyway Thanks to all of you one more time.
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Old 10-26-18, 12:19 PM
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Wonderful thread! Thank you, guys, for educating me.
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Old 10-26-18, 12:25 PM
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Agreed, great thread.
@fdx , where'd you find that in Cork? Can't seem to find anything decent that isn't stupidly overpriced in Dublin - people pulling frames out of the Liffey, calling it "vintage" and asking silly money.
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Old 10-26-18, 02:54 PM
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I found it on adverts. it was 150euro. expensive but it is a decent vintage frame. very light and quite small. I think made for someone not taller than 170cm
In Ireland everything is overpriced. sometimes is cheaper to buy whole bike than frame or wheels.
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Old 10-31-18, 04:27 PM
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Great thread!
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Old 11-01-18, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fdx View Post
update for research.
I got in contact with Cosimo - 70yo bicycle mechanic who has small bicycle workshop in Spinetta Marengo near Alessandria, Italy
- he was working for Mario Peloso and after looking on pictures confirm that it is style of Peloso work, he confirmed that initials mark is Peloso work. He request for more photos and there is a hope I could find out when frame was built and who was the first owner.
Anyway Thanks to all of you one more time.
I'm glad you got the confirmation and thank you for updating the thread!

I can think of a few dozen questions I'd like to ask Cosimo over a bottle of wine...
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Old 11-08-18, 12:47 PM
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Love tales from the past like this. Maurice, do you have an eidetic memory?
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