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Clipless or not for touring?

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Clipless or not for touring?

Old 06-02-19, 10:10 AM
  #151  
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Efficiency can also be seen in different ways.

The GCN guys are testing efficiency in terms of maximum wattage output in a controlled setting for a short period of time. As I said before, for long distance touring the efficiencies could be not needing to think about where the foot is on the pedal, always having the foot oriented in the best position, being able to "float" the foot etc...

And as I said, those efficiencies may diminish if the conditions change such as if you start and stop a lot, don't do high mileage or ride rough terrain.

Here's a pic of my buddy after he just fell while clipped in. We are bushwhacking a section of the Trans Canada Trail between road sections and he chose his clipless gravel bike while I used my platform off road bike. This section required more effort from him because we were on and off the bikes a lot.






Here's a pic where I am doing long days on hwys. Here clipless was more efficient because I dismounted infrequently, and then often only one foot down for pictures..

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Old 06-02-19, 11:54 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Efficiency can also be seen in different ways.

The GCN guys are testing efficiency in terms of maximum wattage output in a controlled setting for a short period of time. As I said before, for long distance touring the efficiencies could be not needing to think about where the foot is on the pedal, always having the foot oriented in the best position, being able to "float" the foot etc...

And as I said, those efficiencies may diminish if the conditions change such as if you start and stop a lot, don't do high mileage or ride rough terrain.

Here's a pic of my buddy after he just fell while clipped in. We are bushwhacking a section of the Trans Canada Trail between road sections and he chose his clipless gravel bike while I used my platform off road bike. This section required more effort from him because we were on and off the bikes a lot.

Here's a pic where I am doing long days on hwys. Here clipless was more efficient because I dismounted infrequently, and then often only one foot down for pictures..
the two examples you show are pretty much how I look at it. I have nearly always tended to be dismounting infrequently, and anyway I commute in traffic with spd's and have for ages, and am fairly used to and fast at unclipping.
That said, there are times like your fallen friend photo shows, that its easier without clipless, and I know I have been on mtb trails where my pedals were a factor, and you really had to be on the ball--but again, the vast majority of the time its not a problem.

also, some people have lower bike handling skills and reactions than others, and clipless are going to be a challenge for them, but there is no clear answer here is there?? (as always with a topic like this)

for touring on a heavy bike, I would have to be going somewhere where I would be hike a biking a lot to not use spd's, or certainly a lot of on and off , and or walking on rocks and such a lot where the cleat would slip a lot....that sort of thing.

but so far, I havent done that sort of tour, so not an issue.
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Old 06-02-19, 11:59 AM
  #153  
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I'm amazed at how long this thread has gotten.
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Old 06-02-19, 08:47 PM
  #154  
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We haven't even broached lubricant for clipless pedals yet... buckle up.
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Old 06-03-19, 06:29 AM
  #155  
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I tried clipless after many years of using toe-clips and straps. I've gone back to toe-clips. That's because with clipless I fell over a number of times with the pedals in the wrong position for ME to unclip. When I ride with toe-clips I usually have the straps loose enough that i can slip my foot out WHEN I WANT TO. Also, with toe-clips I can wear very nearly any shoe when touring.

Different pedals for different people's wants and/or needs.

Cheers
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Old 06-03-19, 07:21 AM
  #156  
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Although I am waiting on a new pair of bicycle shoes. I put my frog pedals on the bike and Sidi mega width shoes on yesterday afternoon and after a quick practice session headed out. As long as I keep the ride not much over 30 miles. My feet don't ache with the Sidi shoes. I currently only ride on the road. I never had problems with clipless when I road on the dirt in the Utah mountains. A picture of someone on the ground does not tell me that clipless is a problem. So lets get on with this. Does anybody out there use the lube for the cleats and pedal contact area. I would like to know if it really improves the durability of the pedal and cleat.
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Old 06-03-19, 08:27 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Joe average does not even know what clipless is. It is obvious that most of the people on this forum are not average. I used bicycle shoes with the nail in cleats and toe clips and they were an improvement. over flat pedals with or without toe clips. I never considered them a problem. Clipless is an improvement over all other systems. They have different needs! I do not believe they use clipless pedals because they have different needs. Retension of the feet on the pedals prevents injury and loss of control that can happen under certain conditions. Having your foot in the same position over the pedal allows you to waste less energy. Everybody or most can benefit from this not, just Tour De France riders. I am not saying it is not complicated. I am saying it is not that complicated. Anxiety can play into this and create problems. I was on a group ride on a Sunday morning and there were several cattle guards on the route. One of the riders had just put some new clipless pedals on at the start point. When we approached and stopped and dismounted just before the cattle guard he fell over. Once he was on the ground he managed to disengage his feet from the pedals. This continued to happen at one intersection and a couple more cattle guards. Although suggestions had been made so he wouldn't repeat the problem he just couldn't seem to disengage from the pedals, when ever he came to a stop. The ride leader decided to make our next stop a parking lot so we could help him out. Yes we were ready with a controlled landing. two of us were ahead of him and dismounted and kept him upright when he stopped. We held him up while he practiced in and out. He actually got one foot out at the next intersection even though it was a little to late. No harm though the other riders gave him plenty of room at stops lest he fall on them. Again: this is not that complicated. Practice before you embarrass or Inger yourself. Disclaimer I am not most people I have a big head, short wide feet and am Bo legged. So one size fits most does not do it for me.
Some people aren't very prone to those injuries, perhaps because that sort of injury is rare, perhaps even rarer among those who don't ride hard. Anxiety is real, and it can be enough of a reason not to use something whose value is low.

I ride clipless virtually all the time. I prefer it strongly. I've never been injured from riding clipless, not even in a minor way. But I can't say others need it. My wife tried it. She fell and cracked her elbow. Her ankle isn't strong enough to twist out reliably. I am not going to tell her to try again.
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Old 06-03-19, 04:07 PM
  #158  
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Some people aren't very prone to those injuries, perhaps because that sort of injury is rare, perhaps even rarer among those who don't ride hard. Anxiety is real, and it can be enough of a reason not to use something whose value is low.

I ride clipless virtually all the time. I prefer it strongly. I've never been injured from riding clipless, not even in a minor way. But I can't say others need it. My wife tried it. She fell and cracked her elbow. Her ankle isn't strong enough to twist out reliably. I am not going to tell her to try again.
My wife has anxiety and will only ride with me on our tandem. She is scared to drive our car in heavy traffic. I do not take issue with these things I just plan around them. I believe that most people can learn how to if they want to. If you think you can or think you can't you are right. I put my frogs back on and my Sidi shoes yesterday and had a quick practice and off I went. tomorrow I will do about 35 miles. My Sidi shoes are the mega meaning more fabric not last. I have some Lake shoes coming and hope I fare better with them.
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Old 06-04-19, 08:57 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Although I am waiting on a new pair of bicycle shoes. I put my frog pedals on the bike and Sidi mega width shoes on yesterday afternoon and after a quick practice session headed out. As long as I keep the ride not much over 30 miles. My feet don't ache with the Sidi shoes. I currently only ride on the road. I never had problems with clipless when I road on the dirt in the Utah mountains. A picture of someone on the ground does not tell me that clipless is a problem. So lets get on with this. Does anybody out there use the lube for the cleats and pedal contact area. I would like to know if it really improves the durability of the pedal and cleat.
I don't know if any pedal/shoe combo is fool-proof. Sometimes it just takes some experience (& perhaps a fall or two) to get used to whatever type. In the old days the rubber pedals at least didn't gouge the shin if they slipped.

Lubing cleat/binding is new to me but apparently a lot of folks favor it at least for ease of unclipping.
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Old 06-05-19, 05:37 AM
  #160  
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I've been using shimano spd's since 92 and wipe them with a rag and or a rag and a screw driver to wipe dirt out of crevices, usually when I clean and lube my drivetrain. I'll put a tiny drop of lube on the pivot points, just like I do with the pivot points of derailleurs, wiping off excess.
This and having the release tension at the lowest setting is all I do.

As invariably bring up, my 92 pedals are still in use.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:46 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Efficiency can also be seen in different ways.

The GCN guys are testing efficiency in terms of maximum wattage output in a controlled setting for a short period of time. As I said before, for long distance touring the efficiencies could be not needing to think about where the foot is on the pedal, always having the foot oriented in the best position, being able to "float" the foot etc...

And as I said, those efficiencies may diminish if the conditions change such as if you start and stop a lot, don't do high mileage or ride rough terrain.

Here's a pic of my buddy after he just fell while clipped in. We are bushwhacking a section of the Trans Canada Trail between road sections and he chose his clipless gravel bike while I used my platform off road bike. This section required more effort from him because we were on and off the bikes a lot.
I have to disagree. Clipless makes rough riding more efficient because you can pull up while riding over the rough spots and you are less likely to slip off the pedals. Your picture isnít even all that ďroughĒ. If your buddy fell over while clipped in, I would blame the bike and itís inability to handle the conditions. Those are very narrow tires that are likely to be deflected when they hit something rather than roll over it. I regularly ride clipless off-road on mountain bikes. Most of the trails are rocky with rocks ranging from fist to baby head sized. I donít have a lot of trail pictures...Iím busy riding...but this is somewhat typical of a milder mountain bike ride.

DSCN0045 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

I also ride clipless while commuting throughout the entire year which has a lot more stop and go. There Iíve learned how to trackstand but clipping out isnít a problem if I need to. Even in snow Iíve found the clipless to be useful and helpful.
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Old 06-05-19, 11:32 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I have to disagree. Clipless makes rough riding more efficient because you can pull up while riding over the rough spots and you are less likely to slip off the pedals. Your picture isnít even all that ďroughĒ. If your buddy fell over while clipped in, I would blame the bike and itís inability to handle the conditions. Those are very narrow tires that are likely to be deflected when they hit something rather than roll over it. I regularly ride clipless off-road on mountain bikes. Most of the trails are rocky with rocks ranging from fist to baby head sized. I donít have a lot of trail pictures...Iím busy riding...but this is somewhat typical of a milder mountain bike ride.

...

I also ride clipless while commuting throughout the entire year which has a lot more stop and go. There Iíve learned how to trackstand but clipping out isnít a problem if I need to. Even in snow Iíve found the clipless to be useful and helpful.
I don't think we disagree. I was just illustrating that some conditions may make people favour one system over the other. I know lot's of mtb'rs who ride clipless for foot control.

My friend really fell over because he simply forgot to unclip. The trail was off and on start and stop a lot and that was a pretty benign section. We talked about bike choices and agreed that his excelled on pavement and groomed gravel but mine did better on loose and single track. I wrote a trip report about it here: https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...er-valley.html

My thoughts on clipless and platforms are just different strokes for different folks. My value for them comes from not having to think about foot position which increases or decreases depending on conditions. While touring I am almost never riding at maximal effort so the idea of high watt/speed efficiency is a wash for that application.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:26 PM
  #163  
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Clipless in snow sounds pretty challenging unless bike has fat or studded tires. Of course DC area barely gets any snow anymore so I'm out of practice. When it does snow the roads & paths get crusty & ridgy, flat pedals/street shoes help manage the frequent tire slips.
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Old 06-06-19, 09:51 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
Clipless in snow sounds pretty challenging unless bike has fat or studded tires. Of course DC area barely gets any snow anymore so I'm out of practice. When it does snow the roads & paths get crusty & ridgy, flat pedals/street shoes help manage the frequent tire slips.
I've never gotten studded, but enjoy the challenge with my mtb tires at low pressures, and unless the snow is particularly deep or greasy ish, it works ok (rarely fall) touch wood touch wood!!!
And yup, use the 1992 Shimano spd's, partly cuz they release so easily now!
remember that Paul Simon song, Slip sliding away....

Last edited by djb; 06-06-19 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 06-06-19, 11:06 PM
  #165  
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Clipless and studded yes, with pregnant wife in two wheeled cart to have 3rd child. the relatives had picked up the other two the day before and the taxi driver opted out. The 10 block ride was no trouble at all for me.
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Old 06-07-19, 01:23 AM
  #166  
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I used toe-clips and they hurt my toes. Then I used clipless and prefer them for riding but the shoes didn't cut it for hiking. Now I use MKS touring pedals and Powergrips. If I didn't do so much hiking on tour, I'd might still use clipless, although I like shedding another piece of specialized equipment. Now I need to get rid of bike shorts.
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Old 06-07-19, 06:49 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I've never gotten studded, but enjoy the challenge with my mtb tires at low pressures, and unless the snow is particularly deep or greasy ish, it works ok (rarely fall) touch wood touch wood!!!
And yup, use the 1992 Shimano spd's, partly cuz they release so easily now!
remember that Paul Simon song, Slip sliding away....
Awesome mitts! If I lived up north I might try the Conti winter (non-studded) tires. Apparently they have microcell compound like car winter tires; that stuff is claimed to work pretty well.
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Old 06-07-19, 07:27 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
Awesome mitts! If I lived up north I might try the Conti winter (non-studded) tires. Apparently they have microcell compound like car winter tires; that stuff is claimed to work pretty well.
I love those overmitts, have had them forever. They are simply a goretex thin overmitt, used to use them for tobogganing etc in deep snow cuz the high cuffs and tightening cord around ends means no snow up your sleeves. For biking in winter, I can vary what I wear under them, so can have warm hands at -20c when I wear thin gloves under my puffy super warm mitts underneath these overmitts, plus again, high cuffs that go nearly up to elbow may look dumb, but they keep lower arms warm also from cold wind.

those non studded tires look interesting, I saw some in a store, but while Im sure they work well, I do like my mtb tires with large blocks, as I can get good grip on all kinds of snow, and as I ride on sidewalks (deserted) I am going up and over all kinds of snow piles, so I like having confidence in the front end when going over stuff and popping the front wheel over rough stuff.
Plus, I already have the mtb tires, and they work alright, so didnt feel the need to spend the money on winter specific tires--now if I had to ride in the dark a lot, I would go with studded, just cuz its a lot harder to see ice when its darker, with alot more chances of losing the front on ice with non studded.
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Old 06-12-19, 10:23 PM
  #169  
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Why not . . . We use clipless for touring on our tandem. I don't tour on anything else. I can't imagine not riding clipless. I started with toe clips 55 years ago, but they were a make-do thing. Clipless is the thing. We use SPDs and Sidi Dominators, like all the other long distance cyclists around here. We carry mesh trail runners. They're pretty light and very nice for hiking. We think bike touring is more fun if we can also hike.
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