Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Training & Nutrition
Reload this Page >

No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes (French version only)

Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes (French version only)

Old 02-12-19, 06:36 PM
  #26  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 5,535

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1333 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 37 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
the only question is whether CM provides additional benefit.
It does because it contains high quality protein.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 06:47 PM
  #27  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
It does because it contains high quality protein.
So does a lot of food we eat in our general diet. It hasn't been proven that there is necessarily increased recovery
redlude97 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 06:48 PM
  #28  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 18,448

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2028 Post(s)
Liked 99 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I did skip the cigarettes. Too many empty calories in those candy cigs.
They don't even taste as good as they used to.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 06:55 PM
  #29  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,078

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 157 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2775 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
They don't even taste as good as they used to.
Like everything from our childhood.



Whaddaya mean, no more candy cigarettes?
canklecat is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 07:11 PM
  #30  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 14,968

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1795 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
I might point out that articles like that are stupid. There is no placebo for chocolate milk except water. Everything else contains active ingredients. Were one of those studies to find that there was no difference between chocolate milk and plain water after a hard century, I would call the researchers liars.

I posted a JAMA analysis of nutritional studies a while back. The analysis pointed out that almost every nutritional study contained researcher bias. Why would that be? Because nutrition is so complicated and crawling with confounders.

There's a really famous stupid study done years ago and still resonating in product marketing. That study found that if they added protein to a carbohydrate drink at a ratio of 3 carbs/1 protein, athlete recovery was improved. Yeah, well DUH, if you increase calories by 1/3, sure enough, recovery improves.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 07:22 PM
  #31  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I might point out that articles like that are stupid. There is no placebo for chocolate milk except water. Everything else contains active ingredients. Were one of those studies to find that there was no difference between chocolate milk and plain water after a hard century, I would call the researchers liars.

I posted a JAMA analysis of nutritional studies a while back. The analysis pointed out that almost every nutritional study contained researcher bias. Why would that be? Because nutrition is so complicated and crawling with confounders.

There's a really famous stupid study done years ago and still resonating in product marketing. That study found that if they added protein to a carbohydrate drink at a ratio of 3 carbs/1 protein, athlete recovery was improved. Yeah, well DUH, if you increase calories by 1/3, sure enough, recovery improves.
Thats not really how it works though, water is not a good placebo in such a study, it depends on the question being asked. if added 3:1 carbs to fat would recovery be improved even though calories increased? What about if the recovery drinks were isocaloric?We know about mechanisms involved in metabolism, muscle synthesis, and glycogen replenishment etc to guide the questions being asked In general, I find the main issue is not with the science/research itself but rather the conclusions drawn, but if you take the time to analyze the data you can draw your own conclusions
redlude97 is offline  
Old 02-12-19, 08:10 PM
  #32  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 14,968

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1795 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Thats not really how it works though, water is not a good placebo in such a study, it depends on the question being asked. if added 3:1 carbs to fat would recovery be improved even though calories increased? What about if the recovery drinks were isocaloric?We know about mechanisms involved in metabolism, muscle synthesis, and glycogen replenishment etc to guide the questions being asked In general, I find the main issue is not with the science/research itself but rather the conclusions drawn, but if you take the time to analyze the data you can draw your own conclusions
The title of the article is "No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes." Which is a stupid. Of course chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes. And even water isn't a true placebo because it has a physiological effect, that of hydration. If one were testing aspirin vs. ibuprofen, is the aspirin a placebo? Of course not. A placebo does nothing. From the Latin: placebo "I shall please," "a harmless pill, medicine, or procedure prescribed more for the psychological benefit to the patient than for any physiological effect."

A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
__________________
Results matter

Last edited by Carbonfiberboy; 02-12-19 at 08:16 PM.
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 02-13-19, 09:05 AM
  #33  
Hondo Gravel
Voted For Pedro
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 1,046

Bikes: Motobecane Boris Fatbike, Motobecane Omni Strada Pro,Fantom Pro CX, Fantom X7 MTB, Gravity SS MTB.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked 87 Times in 67 Posts
Chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows that’s true because I read it on the Internet.
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Old 02-13-19, 10:55 AM
  #34  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,185
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1669 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The title of the article is "No, chocolate milk does not improve the recovery of athletes." Which is a stupid. Of course chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes. And even water isn't a true placebo because it has a physiological effect, that of hydration. If one were testing aspirin vs. ibuprofen, is the aspirin a placebo? Of course not. A placebo does nothing. From the Latin: placebo "I shall please," "a harmless pill, medicine, or procedure prescribed more for the psychological benefit to the patient than for any physiological effect."

A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
I already addressed what I thought of the title above. Two things: water as a placebo for CM is a poor because it doesn't have the same psycological effect, thats why artificially flavored and sweetened solutions are used, just read the studies. Second, comparing to a placebo doesn't answer the question being asked in most of the studies(not the article but the actual studies) which is why CM is compared to carbs only, carbs+electrolytes, or chocolate soy or almond milk in some studies etc, the question being asked is if there is anything special about chocolate milk that provides additional benefit. Thats why I advocate to look beyond article summaries and look at the data itself whenever possible to draw your own conclusions.
redlude97 is offline  
Old 02-13-19, 06:41 PM
  #35  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 14,968

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1795 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
I already addressed what I thought of the title above. Two things: water as a placebo for CM is a poor because it doesn't have the same psycological effect, thats why artificially flavored and sweetened solutions are used, just read the studies. Second, comparing to a placebo doesn't answer the question being asked in most of the studies(not the article but the actual studies) which is why CM is compared to carbs only, carbs+electrolytes, or chocolate soy or almond milk in some studies etc, the question being asked is if there is anything special about chocolate milk that provides additional benefit. Thats why I advocate to look beyond article summaries and look at the data itself whenever possible to draw your own conclusions.
Quite right, thanks.

I have a friend who drinks a quart of chocolate milk at controls. He's 6'5", so the calories are fine. I tried a pint once at a final control, just in case, but the outcome wasn't the best. I can drink chocolate milk fine off the bike or after, but not on. We were on the final leg of a 15 hour 400, so still going pretty hard.

Everyone needs to test for themselves. Even a well-done study can have a random outcome when applied to an individual. Me, i go for the cheap and simple post-ride: maltodextrin, whey protein, and creatine, then a bagel with cream cheese on the drive home. I'd have to buy chocolate milk ahead, store it, and worry about spoilage in the summer.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 08:50 AM
  #36  
CraigMBA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Posts: 108

Bikes: 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper Monstercross Touring Rig, and a couple of others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
So while chocolate milk may not provide an added performance benefit, it may be a way to curb hunger following a hard ride and keep food consumption in check. That's been my experience as well, a post ride drink containing protein+carbs(not necessarily milk) allows me not to gorge on pizza or a greasy burger right after
That's been the case for me. Still, some recovery beverages work better than others. I started mixing a 24 bottle of lemon lime sports drink, spiked with 10 grams worth of vanilla flavored whey protein a couple of weeks ago. So far, so good. Doesn't upset my stomach, tastes okay, doesn't need refrigeration like CM, ect.

Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
If your body is depleted after a hard ride, then anything will act as a recovery drink. It doesn't matter if it's chocolate milk or Gatorade or beer or some other carb or sugar rich drink, your body will use whatever it is given at that time. Studies like these are pointless and prove nothing. Food and beverage manufacturers will do anything they can to promote their product as being superior, but in the end they all work.
While this is partially true, there are certain beverages that work better than others because they approach that ratio of 50 grams carb/10 grams high quality protein. The protein acts as an adjudicate and helps replenish glycogen. CM just happens to have the right macros, but it's certainly not the only way to get there.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
A true title and conclusion might be, "Chocolate milk improves the recovery of athletes no more than this researcher's favorite substitute for it." I would have no problem with that as long as the research continued through at least a couple weeks of hard training and follow-up.
When I had a nutritionist, she said CM worked because the macros were right. But it's not perfect for everyone, either because of dairy sensitivity, or because I can't limit myself to one cup and down a quart of the stuff, or both.

Wish I could read French, so much context lost in the translation.
CraigMBA is offline  
Old 04-05-19, 05:54 AM
  #37  
berner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bristol, R. I.
Posts: 3,428

Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
Pfft!!!! Nothing beats a post-ride cold beer. Nothing!
A man after my own heart. I have benefited in the past from Newcastle Brown Ale. I've recently tried Rocky Mountain Pale Ale but further experimenting will be necessary for a definitive conclusion between the two.
berner is offline  
Old 04-05-19, 09:12 AM
  #38  
Iride01
Senior Member
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,306

Bikes: '91 Schwinn Paramount '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 865 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 25 Posts
When I read the article.... all I can make out of it is that chocolate milk doesn't fare any better than any other post ride drink. I don't see anything that says it's ineffective as a post ride drink.

One ride I did had a dairy sponsoring part of it and handed out chocolate milk and an ice cold wet towel. I never thought I'd tolerate milk after a long ride either, but guzzling it down was no problem and I had no issues of bloat or such that I previously worried about. It didn't persuade me to use chocolate milk after each ride, but I've not got anything against those that do. When compared to post ride concoctions with sugars and whey powders added to them, what's the difference other than personal preference.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 04-05-19, 09:31 AM
  #39  
Wattsup 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 358
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
When I read the article.... all I can make out of it is that chocolate milk doesn't fare any better than any other post ride drink. I don't see anything that says it's ineffective as a post ride drink.

One ride I did had a dairy sponsoring part of it and handed out chocolate milk and an ice cold wet towel. I never thought I'd tolerate milk after a long ride either, but guzzling it down was no problem and I had no issues of bloat or such that I previously worried about. It didn't persuade me to use chocolate milk after each ride, but I've not got anything against those that do. When compared to post ride concoctions with sugars and whey powders added to them, what's the difference other than personal preference.
Yesterday, after my two hour hard-as-I-can gravel ride, I washed down a Wawa 8-inch turkey and cheese sandwich (toasted!) with a quart of Wawa low-fat chocolate milk. After reading this thread, I think next time I'll.....buy the half-gallon size.
Wattsup is offline  
Old 04-05-19, 06:46 PM
  #40  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 1,067

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 13 Posts
it works for me
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Old 04-09-19, 10:39 AM
  #41  
CraigMBA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Posts: 108

Bikes: 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper Monstercross Touring Rig, and a couple of others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
When compared to post ride concoctions with sugars and whey powders added to them, what's the difference other than personal preference.
Well, other than the lack of necessary refrigeration, the lack of temptation (CM tastes good!), and the substantial cost savings?

Nothing really.
CraigMBA is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Aushiker
Touring
6
07-03-13 08:05 PM
GettinMyLanceOn
Road Cycling
9
11-06-12 12:02 PM
BloomBikeShop
Bicycle Mechanics
7
10-25-06 03:53 PM
Al K
Mountain Biking
3
05-13-05 09:44 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.