Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Will you ever go disc?

Road Cycling It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle. -- Ernest Hemingway

Will you ever go disc?

Old 04-26-19, 02:30 PM
  #126  
KraneXL
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,182

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2807 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Still don't get it. I drive a new car with a manual transmission and even bought a pair of drum brake hubs not too long ago. I seriously doubt that even our ridiculously over-protective nanny state will ever outlaw rim brakes on a road bike. Until then, someone will make rim brakes and compatible frames for retro-grouches like me who have no use for disk brakes on our road bikes.
You sir are an anachronism.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 02:36 PM
  #127  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,068
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7969 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 121 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Some of it is not wanting to have to buy a bunch of new wheels.
Ironically this is part of the reason I use discs. I've worn enough brake tracks out. I have nicer wheels now than I was willing to spend on when they were a wear item.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 03:06 PM
  #128  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Got a castle in - er, Minneapolis, that's where I dwell!
Posts: 24,803

Bikes: 2016 Diamondback Haanjo, 2018 Trek Domane SL5 Gravel

Mentioned: 298 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8860 Post(s)
Liked 121 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I have nicer wheels now than I was willing to spend on when they were a wear item.
Ditto.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 03:18 PM
  #129  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Some of it is not wanting to have to buy a bunch of new wheels.
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Ironically this is part of the reason I use discs. I've worn enough brake tracks out. I have nicer wheels now than I was willing to spend on when they were a wear item.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Ditto.
I literally can have whatever wheels I want. I still only went disc because I was handed a frame that was disc.

On cross - I sought out the first disc frame I could get my hands on and went through the early iterations and growing pains of simply adapting a mtb product to a "road" standard.

As a rider of almost all disc brakes you can easily say that my level of resistance is nill. It doesn't mean I think it's the right product or of need or use. *shrug* It doesn't change the future though.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 03:22 PM
  #130  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Still don't get it. I drive a new car with a manual transmission and even bought a pair of drum brake hubs not too long ago. I seriously doubt that even our ridiculously over-protective nanny state will ever outlaw rim brakes on a road bike. Until then, someone will make rim brakes and compatible frames for retro-grouches like me who have no use for disk brakes on our road bikes.
Horrible example. Roughly 2-3% of all cars sold int he US are manual transmissions. 2-3% does not a market make.

What this means for cycling is that you won't be able to buy any remotely "nice" modern frame designed by any of the large, medium , or even baby brands that will have rim brakes stock. You mentioned triple cranks, etc still being around.

Yeah, they're around. I work on them daily on some of the crappiest bikes known to man.

I was still able to go to a local store and get ignition points for a 1962 Mercury Comet.... doesn't mean anyone other than a small number of outliers really ever wants anything to do with those ignition points.

EDIT: So to answer your question a little more fully - Why is it such a big deal? It's a big deal because it's a changeover that many really don't want or need but isn't backwards compatible. I can build a lighter, better functioning bike without discs and I won't be able to do that on any new model frame in a handful of years.

For those that say rim barkes aren't enough braking power like in the rain - go see if you can still skid in the rain on your rim brake bike. When you can.... easily - please realize that is a direct exhibit of your braking power being too high for the contact patch of your tires and that is not going to "get better" with more braking power. Still doubt me? Ask yourself why road disc rotor sizes are the smallest possible. If MOAR PWR is better then why not use the largest rotor available? Like say...the rim...

Tire widths and pressures change with tastes as well. Soon we will start swinging back to road tradition and you'll see narrower tires (or at least back to 25's...I know most of you never left 25's but the steady stream of riders going up to 28's, and 30's is real). It will be fun to see these receive little to no modulation from discs because of the power they have. We'll have to dumb them down even more until they are just like..... rim brake calipers.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels


Last edited by Psimet2001; 04-26-19 at 03:30 PM.
Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 03:28 PM
  #131  
bargeon
Senior Member
 
bargeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Central NY
Posts: 438

Bikes: Fuji, Focus,Felt. 20 more letters to go.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
6 pages on a dead horse. Don't stop now.
bargeon is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 03:41 PM
  #132  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Horse has legs man....the horse has legs...
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 03:42 PM
  #133  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Yeah, I dunno. Nice carbon rims are nice, but braking in the wet is *****e and wearing out the brake track is annoying. And the noise? Even in the dry these modern rims with grooved brake tracks are really annoying - And they are not even mine... ;-)

Last edited by Racing Dan; 04-26-19 at 03:46 PM.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 04:50 PM
  #134  
kingston 
Jedi Master
 
kingston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lake Forest, IL
Posts: 2,637

Bikes: http://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Horrible example. Roughly 2-3% of all cars sold int he US are manual transmissions. 2-3% does not a market make.

What this means for cycling is that you won't be able to buy any remotely "nice" modern frame designed by any of the large, medium , or even baby brands that will have rim brakes stock. You mentioned triple cranks, etc still being around.

Yeah, they're around. I work on them daily on some of the crappiest bikes known to man.
I didn't come up with the manual transmission example, but it makes my point very well. I don't care if most people can't get it on most cars. If I want a high performance car with a manual transmission, I can go to a dealer and drive one off the lot tomorrow.

Same thing with rim brakes and triples. I am confident that I will always be able to buy a rim brake frame that is at least as nice as I want or need. I don't care about the mass market. I'm not in that market. I'm in the retro-grouch connoisseur market. We already don't buy complete bikes, so it makes no difference to me what the big manufacturers do or don't churn out.

In the extremely unlikely event that every single manufacturer in the world stops making rim brake frames, I can go to a builder and have one custom made with light weight steel or titanium and posts for Paul cantilevers or Rene Herse centerpulls. Same with triples. I can still buy a Phil Wood square taper bottom bracket and a Rene Herse triple that is at least as nice and more functional than anything from the big three component manufacturers.

So anyone who complains that manufacturers are deciding what they ride either aren't paying for their own bike, aren't looking very hard or just don't care about it that much.

By the way, I rode by your shop last Saturday, but I was with a group on the GLR 200k so I couldn't stop. I may come by tomorrow for a cup of coffee since it will be cold. I'll say hi if you are around.
kingston is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 05:35 PM
  #135  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I didn't come up with the manual transmission example, but it makes my point very well. I don't care if most people can't get it on most cars. If I want a high performance car with a manual transmission, I can go to a dealer and drive one off the lot tomorrow.

Same thing with rim brakes and triples. I am confident that I will always be able to buy a rim brake frame that is at least as nice as I want or need. I don't care about the mass market. I'm not in that market. I'm in the retro-grouch connoisseur market. We already don't buy complete bikes, so it makes no difference to me what the big manufacturers do or don't churn out.

In the extremely unlikely event that every single manufacturer in the world stops making rim brake frames, I can go to a builder and have one custom made with light weight steel or titanium and posts for Paul cantilevers or Rene Herse centerpulls. Same with triples. I can still buy a Phil Wood square taper bottom bracket and a Rene Herse triple that is at least as nice and more functional than anything from the big three component manufacturers.

So anyone who complains that manufacturers are deciding what they ride either aren't paying for their own bike, aren't looking very hard or just don't care about it that much.

By the way, I rode by your shop last Saturday, but I was with a group on the GLR 200k so I couldn't stop. I may come by tomorrow for a cup of coffee since it will be cold. I'll say hi if you are around.
yeah, stop in. unfortunately I'll be here all day. Still here now gluing tubulars. I could use a day off but it's a 6 day a week job at this time of year and on the 7th day we race.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 05:40 PM
  #136  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,068
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7969 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 121 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Horrible example. Roughly 2-3% of all cars sold int he US are manual transmissions. 2-3% does not a market make.

What this means for cycling is that you won't be able to buy any remotely "nice" modern frame designed by any of the large, medium , or even baby brands that will have rim brakes stock. You mentioned triple cranks, etc still being around.

Yeah, they're around. I work on them daily on some of the crappiest bikes known to man.

I was still able to go to a local store and get ignition points for a 1962 Mercury Comet.... doesn't mean anyone other than a small number of outliers really ever wants anything to do with those ignition points.

EDIT: So to answer your question a little more fully - Why is it such a big deal? It's a big deal because it's a changeover that many really don't want or need but isn't backwards compatible. I can build a lighter, better functioning bike without discs and I won't be able to do that on any new model frame in a handful of years.

For those that say rim barkes aren't enough braking power like in the rain - go see if you can still skid in the rain on your rim brake bike. When you can.... easily - please realize that is a direct exhibit of your braking power being too high for the contact patch of your tires and that is not going to "get better" with more braking power. Still doubt me? Ask yourself why road disc rotor sizes are the smallest possible. If MOAR PWR is better then why not use the largest rotor available? Like say...the rim...

Tire widths and pressures change with tastes as well. Soon we will start swinging back to road tradition and you'll see narrower tires (or at least back to 25's...I know most of you never left 25's but the steady stream of riders going up to 28's, and 30's is real). It will be fun to see these receive little to no modulation from discs because of the power they have. We'll have to dumb them down even more until they are just like..... rim brake calipers.
So in this future where no one can get anything but disc brake bikes, the playing field will be level, so it won't impact sportsmanship. And they'll be ubiquitous, so our tastes will adapt.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 05:43 PM
  #137  
Rides4Beer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: SC
Posts: 428

Bikes: Giant Revolt Advanced | Fuji Transonic

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 28 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Yeah, I dunno. Nice carbon rims are nice, but braking in the wet is *****e and wearing out the brake track is annoying. And the noise? Even in the dry these modern rims with grooved brake tracks are really annoying - And they are not even mine... ;-)
I dunno, I like the sound my carbon wheels with the grooved track make when braking, it's a very pleasant zzzzzzz sound. What bugs me are all the disc brakes constantly squeaking on group rides.
Rides4Beer is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 09:03 PM
  #138  
one4smoke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 1,479

Bikes: 2016 Specialized Roubaix SL4 - 2015 Giant Roam 2 Disc

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 407 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Will you ever go disc?

The answer to that is a resounding YES ...if you ever ride a bike with hydraulic discs and aren't closed minded.
one4smoke is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 09:51 PM
  #139  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,166
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2889 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 70 Posts
Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
I dunno, I like the sound my carbon wheels with the grooved track make when braking, it's a very pleasant zzzzzzz sound. What bugs me are all the disc brakes constantly squeaking on group rides.
My disc brakes are silent, unless its raining.

Riding in the rain, with a group, brake noise is actually a benefit. It lets everyone know what you are doing, without a word.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 04-26-19, 11:12 PM
  #140  
RedBullFiXX
Senior Member
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal USA
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What will be the next " I hate this new tech forced upon us by the evil mfg''s " mass of dead horse threads be
RedBullFiXX is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 12:32 PM
  #141  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
What will be the next " I hate this new tech forced upon us by the evil mfg''s " mass of dead horse threads be
When they stop making mechanical versions of nice components and only offer electronic down to the 105/apex/rival level.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 12:56 PM
  #142  
Bandera 
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,800
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
When they stop making mechanical versions of nice components and only offer electronic down to the 105/apex/rival level.
Followed by the #1 thread topic in BF C&V 10 years later:

"The mfg stopped making batteries for my 'lectric drive-train, it's dead!"

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh Internat'l. '77 Trek TX900 FG. '90 Vitus 979. '10 Merckx EMX3. '13 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 12:58 PM
  #143  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 6,213

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 825 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 43 Posts
My cross bike has disc brakes. Both road bikes have rim brakes. If I were to buy or build a road bike it would have disc brakes.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 03:47 PM
  #144  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
What will be the next " I hate this new tech forced upon us by the evil mfg''s " mass of dead horse threads be
Some day soon we arrive at every component proprietary, just like on a car or MC. We are slowly inching closer and im betting some bombs will drop along with 12 speed gear systems. Currently SRAM is leading the charge with 100% proprietary AXS (except for the pedal thread :-) . Next up Shimano. How about non standard TL setups, locking you in with Giant or Specialized tyres or gruppos that will only fit frames built to match ... I will be reality unless we refuse to buy and encourage the big guys venturing down that road.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 04-27-19 at 03:50 PM.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 05:43 PM
  #145  
KraneXL
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,182

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2807 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Some day soon we arrive at every component proprietary, just like on a car or MC. We are slowly inching closer and im betting some bombs will drop along with 12 speed gear systems. Currently SRAM is leading the charge with 100% proprietary AXS (except for the pedal thread :-) . Next up Shimano. How about non standard TL setups, locking you in with Giant or Specialized tyres or gruppos that will only fit frames built to match ... I will be reality unless we refuse to buy and encourage the big guys venturing down that road.
Exactly right. Your consumer dollar speaks volumes, and is the best way to send this message. Businesses and their shareholders hear that loud and clear.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 10:00 PM
  #146  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19,068
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7969 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 121 Posts
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
What will be the next " I hate this new tech forced upon us by the evil mfg''s " mass of dead horse threads be
The Book of Revelation clearly says the four housemen of the apocalypse will be riding disc brake horses and using the rotors to mow down racers and Freds alike, without regard to their FTP.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-28-19, 12:19 AM
  #147  
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
I think changing wheel sizes would be a good path to go down for road bikes.
Worked well in the MTB world!
In fact there are many things the road bikes could learn from them in creating obsolescence.
Dean V is offline  
Old 04-28-19, 04:26 AM
  #148  
Ilfalco2
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Will I ever go disk?
No
What is this fascination with stopping anyway?
Ilfalco2 is offline  
Old 04-28-19, 09:04 AM
  #149  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6,166
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2889 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 70 Posts
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Exactly right. Your consumer dollar speaks volumes, and is the best way to send this message. Businesses and their shareholders hear that loud and clear.
The people have spoken, but you might not like their answer.

Everyday people come into my shop to buy road bikes, and nearly everyone says they want disc brakes. Some people buy bikes with rim brakes, but not many specify that they don't want discs.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 04-28-19, 08:20 PM
  #150  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,520

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1530 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
Discs? I don't need no stinking discs.
And I'm avoiding the slipping kind as well.
__________________

Marcia Brady rode a ROLLFAST!
Rollfast is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.