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Crabon bikes are fast!

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Crabon bikes are fast!

Old 06-05-19, 08:26 AM
  #51  
PepeM
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Good point. While not completely red, it does have some red on it. The steel bike has no red whatsoever on it.
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Old 06-05-19, 08:28 AM
  #52  
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Did The Crabon bike have motor in it?
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Old 06-05-19, 09:08 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Steel:



Crabon:



I think it is fair to say that my conclusion has managed to withstand all the scrutiny so far.
I conclude that Strava's power estimates are garbage.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:20 AM
  #54  
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Crabon helps, but it's a Focus.... Of course it's way more faster.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:27 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by grayrest View Post
So, assuming you eliminated all other variables (I'm in serious doubt here) the difference in climb times should be purely down to weight. The steel time is 13.9% longer than the crabon one. I have no idea how heavy you are so I'll use my weight of 85kg and assume the crabon bike is the 6.8kg UCI weight limit. That would put the steel bike at 19.6kg or 43.1 lbs. Not an impossibly high number but I don't think anybody would be surprised that someone is faster on a 7kg bike than a 20kg one.
Ask the more fundamental question, why would PepeM keep his crabon bike on ice for so long if he really thought it was "faster"?

He's playing "opposites" because he already hinted that the power difference and distance discrepancy accounts for the difference in average speed. Pretending to gloss over it.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:41 AM
  #56  
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Everyone knows you don't tow kittens with a crabon bike. PepeM was on duty.
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
It's never about getting comfortable. It's about getting capable.
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Old 06-05-19, 10:07 AM
  #57  
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They approve the 'magical' ride that only steel can provide
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Old 06-05-19, 10:07 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I conclude that Strava's power estimates are garbage.
While I agree in general, the OP may not have his stats entered correctly in STRAVA, ie. bike type, bike weight, rider weight, etc....
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Old 06-05-19, 10:11 AM
  #59  
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As most others have said, it's most likely not just down to the weight alone. There are several other factors that play into it. What is the geometry like on both of the bikes? What about tyres, wheels, etc? I am faster on my carbon bike than on my aluminium CX bike, and there is about a 3.5kg weight difference. The geometry of the two bikes is very different, as are the tyres (25mm GP4000s vs 35mm hutchinson overides) and the gearing. But the single biggest factor between the bikes and the difference in speed: me and the effort I put in when I'm out on my carbon bike.
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Old 06-05-19, 10:18 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I conclude that Strava's power estimates are garbage.
Concur.
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Old 06-05-19, 10:19 AM
  #61  
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I thought that I had provided all that info.

Wheels: Ambrosio Cronos vs Psimet 50/60mm crabons. Both tubulars
Tires: 23mm Vittoria Corsas vs 23mm Maxxxxxxxxxxxis Relix
Geometry: Don't know, but I try to keep it somewhat similar
Gearing: 52/38 11-25 vs 50/36 12-25 (if I recall correctly)
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Old 06-05-19, 10:45 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
I thought that I had provided all that info.

Wheels: Ambrosio Cronos vs Psimet 50/60mm crabons. Both tubulars
Tires: 23mm Vittoria Corsas vs 23mm Maxxxxxxxxxxxis Relix
Geometry: Don't know, but I try to keep it somewhat similar
Gearing: 52/38 11-25 vs 50/36 12-25 (if I recall correctly)
What cable housings are you running? That can make a big difference.
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Old 06-05-19, 10:55 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
What cable housings are you running? That can make a big difference.
Good observation. The crabon bike has generic black housing, while the steal bike has color-coordinated housing, so if anything, that should favor the latter.
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Old 06-05-19, 11:28 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
I thought that I had provided all that info.

Wheels: Ambrosio Cronos vs Psimet 50/60mm crabons. Both tubulars
Tires: 23mm Vittoria Corsas vs 23mm Maxxxxxxxxxxxis Relix
Geometry: Don't know, but I try to keep it somewhat similar
Gearing: 52/38 11-25 vs 50/36 12-25 (if I recall correctly)
Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Good observation. The crabon bike has generic black housing, while the steal bike has color-coordinated housing, so if anything, that should favor the latter.
Depends. What colors are you mixing/matching here?
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Old 06-05-19, 11:38 AM
  #65  
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Blue on (darker) blue.
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Old 06-05-19, 11:45 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
While I agree in general, the OP may not have his stats entered correctly in STRAVA, ie. bike type, bike weight, rider weight, etc....
That really doesn't matter.
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Old 06-05-19, 12:24 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
That really doesn't matter.
The point was although STRAVA estimates are not reliable, the extreme variation could be from user data not entered correctly because the margin of error is usually not that large.
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Old 06-05-19, 12:44 PM
  #68  
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crabon: a space-age alloy created by combining crayons with bon-bons.
...seems like that would be a lot of calories, but whatever.
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Old 06-05-19, 01:54 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
The point was although STRAVA estimates are not reliable, the extreme variation could be from user data not entered correctly because the margin of error is usually not that large.
There's a larger variation from that in a solo ride versus sitting in the middle of a large pack.

How does Strava know?

That's just one of a multitude of significant factors that Strava can't account for. Your point is moot.
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Old 06-05-19, 02:40 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Hello, fellow BFers.

Lately, I have been riding my steel pedalbike a lot. It is a nice ride. Steel frame of unknown provenance, Dura Ace 10-speed groupset with downtube shifters, Ambrosio Crono wheels with Vittoria Corsa tubulars (23mm.) Solid ride all around.

Today, I took out my crabon bike out for a spin, after a year laying dormant. Focus Cayo, Force groupset, Psimet crabon tubulars. I followed the same route I rode on my trusty steelstead last week and lo and behold, I went over 2 mph faster on the crabon bike!

For the nonbelievers, I shall present evidence.

Exhibit 1, ride on the steel bike:



Note the average speed (shall not be confused with cruising speed.)

Exhibit 2, same ride on the crabon bike:



That's like a 15% gain in speed!

So, is crabon faster? Discuss.
crabon is the shizzle man.
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Old 06-05-19, 03:01 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by PepeM View Post
Steel:



Crabon:



I think it is fair to say that my conclusion has managed to withstand all the scrutiny so far.
0 bpm?

The only reasonable conclusion here is that zombies deliver more power on crabon bikes. I have no idea what this implies about the living.
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Old 06-05-19, 03:35 PM
  #72  
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Here’s my highly unscientific anecdotal experience:

Until this year I rode an early 90’s Bianchi Virata with Tange Ultralight tubing. Full Ultegra 8 speed group set with downtube shifters. Tires were Conti GP4000, 23mm.

This is year I ride a Specialized Roubaix SP4 Sport with 10r carbon frame and 11 speed 105. Tires are the Specialized that came on the bike. It’s about 3 pounds lighter than the Bianchi. My rides are solo and very consistent. My average speed is almost identical to that of the Bianchi. I ride because I like to ride and for fitness. My average ride is 25 miles. So basically all other things being equal, I am no faster on the lighter bike. The biggest advantage to me are the 11 speeds. It’s also pretty flat here.

By by the way I bought the Roubaix as I wanted more modern geometry and an updated group set with brifters. I love the bike and especially the gearing.
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Old 06-05-19, 04:06 PM
  #73  
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I also have some highly anecdotal findings. that contradicts common sense.

I have a chromag sakura. its at the very upper segment of preimum steel, 26er mtb, with slicks and road bar, never had it as a mtb. with 42/50mm tires, slicks schwalbe marathon supremes.

then i got a Ti lynskey cooper cx, 700c with dropbar too, marathon supremes 32/37. this bike goes faste than the chromag. BUT only if i push it above 90% or so of my max effort!!. otherwise they are just as fast.

Then i got another lynskey ti, the procross with beefier tubes than the cooper and also triangular and twisted tubes made out of 6al-4v ti (and no it doesn't really matter in any scinentific way), and actually this frame was 150g heavier than the cooper. but it was beefier. But this frame was also maybe when i really really really maxed it to work 3 minutes faster to work. 11km. 22min vs 19 min. these 2 bikes have the exact same rims but the hubs were lighter on the cooper by 200g. otherwise the same.

the cooper weighed in at about 10kg, the pro cross 9,5 or so, but the pro cross had 25/28mm gp4ks! and also the nitto north road handlebar, upside down.

Then i got colnago master, new, steel. 8,3kg or so. and guess what my best to work on it is 22minutes. same as the fendered cooper!!! and i even tried it on the colnago. i even built more better wheels for it with dt240 hubs and archetype rims (900€ wheels) same tires. still wont go faster than 22 minutes. and they won TDF races on a frame exactly like this!!

So my conclusion with all this testing is that every crap bike you can find with good tires and a drop bar will be about as fast as the best lightest one you can find within maybe 2-3%. i know its sad. but i feel its true.

if you happen to ride much faster on one bike than another, then i'd say its most likely the cause of something else other than weight, and aero (my colnago is paper thin, and lighter, has better wheels, more aero wheels, yet slower than my pro cross).

This is of course a complete m6ystery. but i personally think the pro cross frame was stiffer and maybe springier in the right way and that the upside down north road handlebar was infact more comfortable enabling me to run more 100% and also maybe a bit more aero when i tried to be aero.

That all the xplanations i can give you. 3 minutes in 11km.

I wonder what carbon could do?? it could possibly do a serious difference. since its not all about Cd/weight/stiffness. i know that god-darn well. first hand experience too.
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Old 06-05-19, 04:23 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by MSchott View Post
Here’s my highly unscientific anecdotal experience:

Until this year I rode an early 90’s Bianchi Virata with Tange Ultralight tubing. Full Ultegra 8 speed group set with downtube shifters. Tires were Conti GP4000, 23mm.

This is year I ride a Specialized Roubaix SP4 Sport with 10r carbon frame and 11 speed 105. Tires are the Specialized that came on the bike. It’s about 3 pounds lighter than the Bianchi. My rides are solo and very consistent. My average speed is almost identical to that of the Bianchi. I ride because I like to ride and for fitness. My average ride is 25 miles. So basically all other things being equal, I am no faster on the lighter bike. The biggest advantage to me are the 11 speeds. It’s also pretty flat here.

By by the way I bought the Roubaix as I wanted more modern geometry and an updated group set with brifters. I love the bike and especially the gearing.

I don't think you're doing it right.

Crabon, more speeds, everything points to faster. Of course, Ultegra>105, but there is some time between. Might be a wash there, simply because after a couple years, Ultegra is Dura Ace, and 105 is Ultegra.
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Last edited by LAJ; 06-05-19 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 06-05-19, 04:58 PM
  #75  
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LAJ is right!! the answer is always moar crabon, moar better crabon!! stiff crabon. its the bestest.

this is the only way you go faster!! moar crabon.
and also epo.
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