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Have you ever see one fail like this?

Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Have you ever see one fail like this?

Old 06-10-19, 10:45 PM
  #76  
gorillimo
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Was thinking of buying a used Bianchi with carbon fork and stays. Didnít really need it, I ride by surly crosscheck most of the time. This thread is decide Iím not interested in an older carbon bike. Just doesnít seem worth the risk
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Old 06-10-19, 11:04 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Come on, now. Occam's Razor the situation.
Or Occam's rotor. Clearly what happened is an airborne severed leg from one of the other rider's unfortunate amputation from a disk break [sic] flew into the wheel.

This is by far the simplest and most parsimonious hypothesis that explains all of the facts.
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Old 06-10-19, 11:07 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Great name for a brake rotor.
Occam's Rotor will slit your throat.

FWIW I added that under my username last week.
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Old 06-11-19, 02:03 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
looks like an Al fork to me? Haven't seen a CF bike part that was white on the inside like that...
I agree. No ragged edges with strands of carbon fiber showing
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Old 06-11-19, 08:34 AM
  #80  
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A broken SPD-sole shoe once caused my foot to come down into the front wheel spokes on the right side of the wheel, the rotating wheel then jacked my foot upward, throwing me off of the bike onto my left side.

Oddly enough, I was able to continue the ride, apparently since I lost most of my speed as the wheel was jacking my leg upward.
Not a single spoke broke or pulled out.

This wheel, with eight spokes ripped from the rim, appears to indicate severe overload occurred. But if one fork leg failed first and the wheel then twisted sideways, then it seems to me the wheel failure would be entirely asymmetric left-to-right, with spokes on one side failing but not on the other side. Odd here that the spokes aren't bent, seems they would be bent if the wheel ingested a solid object.

I am wondering how heavily that the bike was loaded, and possibly how a further impact load might have been generated.

Possibly an outer-ply failure of the tire, leading to an abrupt bulge, might have suddenly stopped the wheel from turning(?)

Last edited by dddd; 06-11-19 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 06-11-19, 06:52 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Steel forks fare better when something gets lodged in the wheel? Do they also manage to not throw the rider over the bars?
If the fork fails the tire hits the frame and stops turning. Oh yeah you still get big air. My 'Dale with a Tang fork sent me to the hospital just as quickly.
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Old 06-11-19, 07:17 PM
  #82  
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**** happens.
__________________
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Old 06-12-19, 07:56 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by gorillimo View Post
Was thinking of buying a used Bianchi with carbon fork and stays. Didnít really need it, I ride by surly crosscheck most of the time. This thread is decide Iím not interested in an older carbon bike. Just doesnít seem worth the risk
So an aluminum fork breaking has convinced you to not buy a crabon bike? Makes sense.
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Old 06-12-19, 08:50 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by gorillimo View Post
Was thinking of buying a used Bianchi with carbon fork and stays. Didnít really need it, I ride by surly crosscheck most of the time. This thread is decide Iím not interested in an older carbon bike. Just doesnít seem worth the risk
What in the absolute hell. There's been several posts like this, that is NOT a carbon fork.
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Old 06-12-19, 10:56 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by OUGrad05 View Post
What in the absolute hell. There's been several posts like this, that is NOT a carbon fork.
Didnít say it was. But I did see it as a reminder that some materials have a much higher failure rate. I was looking at buying a 90s Bianchi with Carbon Fork and stays.
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Old 06-12-19, 11:00 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by gorillimo View Post
Didnít say it was. But I did see it as a reminder that some materials have a much higher failure rate. I was looking at buying a 90s Bianchi with Carbon Fork and stays.
The aluminum fork failure was a reminder that carbon parts have a high failure rate? The aluminum fork failure reminded me to take the trash out later.
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Old 06-13-19, 06:23 AM
  #87  
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Not Heavy

Originally Posted by dddd View Post
A broken SPD-sole shoe once caused my foot to come down into the front wheel spokes on the right side of the wheel, the rotating wheel then jacked my foot upward, throwing me off of the bike onto my left side.

Oddly enough, I was able to continue the ride, apparently since I lost most of my speed as the wheel was jacking my leg upward.
Not a single spoke broke or pulled out.

This wheel, with eight spokes ripped from the rim, appears to indicate severe overload occurred. But if one fork leg failed first and the wheel then twisted sideways, then it seems to me the wheel failure would be entirely asymmetric left-to-right, with spokes on one side failing but not on the other side. Odd here that the spokes aren't bent, seems they would be bent if the wheel ingested a solid object.

I am wondering how heavily that the bike was loaded, and possibly how a further impact load might have been generated.

Possibly an outer-ply failure of the tire, leading to an abrupt bulge, might have suddenly stopped the wheel from turning(?)
Appreciate the observations. The bike, according to the rider (who is recovering...), was not heavily loaded; only the rider and her water pack.
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Old 06-13-19, 10:42 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by amaroo View Post
Those broken cable ties make me wonder if a computer sensor was attached to the right hand fork, and it became jammed in the spokes.
Makes you wonder if the sensor was mounted on the back of the fork.
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Old 06-13-19, 03:41 PM
  #89  
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Just look up cracked/broken carbon frame and yes, there are many like this actually with the forks looking just like that. Just because they slapped a Trek logo on there doesn't mean it won't fail, it just means you paid more for something made in china. That goes with every manufacture, specialized, canyon, you name it, it's Chinese carbon all around.
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Old 06-13-19, 05:40 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Makes you wonder if the sensor was mounted on the back of the fork.
Precisely.
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Old 06-13-19, 06:00 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
That goes with every manufacture, specialized, canyon, you name it, it's Chinese carbon all around.
Even when it's aluminum?
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Old 06-13-19, 06:02 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by MyTi View Post
Just look up cracked/broken carbon frame and yes, there are many like this actually with the forks looking just like that. Just because they slapped a Trek logo on there doesn't mean it won't fail, it just means you paid more for something made in china. That goes with every manufacture, specialized, canyon, you name it, it's Chinese carbon all around.
Pretty ignorant to lump taiwan in with china...in addition to it being pointed out a dozen times it was an aluminum fork
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Old 06-15-19, 03:50 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
A broken SPD-sole shoe once caused my foot to come down into the front wheel spokes on the right side of the wheel, the rotating wheel then jacked my foot upward, throwing me off of the bike onto my left side.

Oddly enough, I was able to continue the ride, apparently since I lost most of my speed as the wheel was jacking my leg upward.
Not a single spoke broke or pulled out.

This wheel, with eight spokes ripped from the rim, appears to indicate severe overload occurred. But if one fork leg failed first and the wheel then twisted sideways, then it seems to me the wheel failure would be entirely asymmetric left-to-right, with spokes on one side failing but not on the other side. Odd here that the spokes aren't bent, seems they would be bent if the wheel ingested a solid object.

I am wondering how heavily that the bike was loaded, and possibly how a further impact load might have been generated.

Possibly an outer-ply failure of the tire, leading to an abrupt bulge, might have suddenly stopped the wheel from turning(?)
(bold underline) +1. That may also seem to indicate a frontal impact.
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Old 06-15-19, 06:03 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post

**** happens.
that could have been caused by pretty much anything. considering its crabon. look up luescher teknik on youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9...4lLOHpb_zbIedQ and you will see how subpar most carbon frames are. and its pretty much a gamble what you will get. He said in his latest vid that he had tested 80 forks this years and only 8 were constructed correctly and showed no signs of internal crappieness. thats 10%! you do the math here.

its just the same with the frames i'm afraid.

so that damage may have happened because of something external and it may also have happened because of shoddy internal contruction/design with voids/adhesive pooling/porosity/fabric wrinkles and similar. I think most of carbon frame fails are due to internal failures caused by shoddy workmanship. wrinkling/voids etc. it just takes more or less time to develop.
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Old 06-15-19, 11:42 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
(bold underline) +1. That may also seem to indicate a frontal impact.
At least one of the spokes looks bent. Regardless, if something get stuck in the spokes, the spinning wheel is going to move it outwards, towards the nipples (unless the object is large or gets wedged in a spoke crossing).

In terms of a frontal impact, I have a hard time imaging how that would shear the fork, shear a bunch of spokes at the nipples and still leave the wheel pretty dang round.
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Old 06-15-19, 12:42 PM
  #96  
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the fork would at the very least be bent the other way for a frontal impact to have happened. with bent metal in that direction to go with it. but now its the exact opposite. looks like a typical stray squirrel JRA accident to me at least. very very certain of that. feel free to prove me wrong. i'm all ears.

so no this is n0ot warranty. this is accident. maybe its insurance. good luck getting the manufacturerar paying for this. not gonna happen. i can tell you that. only thing missing is the squirrel in the wheel pretty much. and is that a manufacturing defect?
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Old 06-17-19, 12:13 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
At least one of the spokes looks bent. Regardless, if something get stuck in the spokes, the spinning wheel is going to move it outwards, towards the nipples (unless the object is large or gets wedged in a spoke crossing).

In terms of a frontal impact, I have a hard time imaging how that would shear the fork, shear a bunch of spokes at the nipples and still leave the wheel pretty dang round.
Gotta be 40 years ago, a good local bike shop told me that the (new at that time) deep section aluminum rims (I think Weinmann) were so rigid, a frontal impact would bend the (steel) fork before bending the rim. And that was at 27"/700c diameter. Go smaller diameter and the rim gets even stronger. For a time I had one of the original Dahon folders with about 16"(?) chromed steel rims, your teeth fillings would loosen before ever bending those rims.
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Old 06-17-19, 01:02 AM
  #98  
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Why is the fork and its material and failure even being discussed?
It is obviously the the symptom of the incident not the cause.
Whatever jammed in that wheel would of put the rider over the bars regardless of the fork material.
I have a friend who broke his back (fortunately healed ok) when a tyre iron got flicked off the road by another rider and went through his front wheel.
His fork was also smashed but that is irrelevant to the outcome.
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Old 06-17-19, 05:50 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
Gotta be 40 years ago, a good local bike shop told me that the (new at that time) deep section aluminum rims (I think Weinmann) were so rigid, a frontal impact would bend the (steel) fork before bending the rim. And that was at 27"/700c diameter. Go smaller diameter and the rim gets even stronger. For a time I had one of the original Dahon folders with about 16"(?) chromed steel rims, your teeth fillings would loosen before ever bending those rims.
The wheel in question is none of these things. Even if it were, it still wouldn't explain how the super-duper sturdy rim would be intact while several spokes were blown out.
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Old 06-17-19, 05:54 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Why is the fork and its material and failure even being discussed?
It is obviously the the symptom of the incident not the cause.
Whatever jammed in that wheel would of put the rider over the bars regardless of the fork material.
The OP is either trolling or, because of his emotional ties to the unfortunate rider, he's holding on to some illogical hope that it really was a JRA failure so that he can blame someone, anyone.
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