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Are 1200 gram wheels possible?

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Are 1200 gram wheels possible?

Old 06-10-19, 05:41 PM
  #26  
TimothyH
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
+1. Since the rear wheel will be symmetrical (or close to it), tensions should be reasonable, and aluminum nipples should be feasible all around.

@TimothyH, are tubulars "out" for sure? Easy weight loss there if you're willing to use them.

In addition, I know you tend to run front and rear brakes, but if you're willing to forego the rear brake, that rim could be even lighter.

WW projects are fun.
I never really considered tubulars and am really ignorant. Guess I should educate myself.


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Old 06-10-19, 05:47 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
problem is, you’ve reached the point that that ‘extra’ lightness is going to cost you. So you can either compromise and go with a bit heavier wheelset, or start saving your pennies. You’ll really just have to ask, is it really worth it, because you have a pretty decent idea already what it’s going to cost, and what kind of wheels you’ll be getting. If i had your bike, what I would be asking myself: ‘is it worth the cost to obtain this goal, and how much will it really help my performance, or am I just doing this to make the bike lighter on paper?’ And as a subsequent question: ‘could I make up the difference in weight by working on my performance and fitness?’
Yeah, see, that's the thing right there. I'm just trying to talk/think it through and this thread has been a help.

1400 to 1500 grams seems to be the break point where cost goes way up, @IAmSam's suggestion notwithstanding.

If I could find 1200 gram wheels cheap enough then I'd think about it but right now the answer is no, nothing is compelling me to get rid of the 1600 gram wheels. They are fine and the bike flies but I'm open to suggestions.
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Old 06-10-19, 09:29 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by seamuis View Post
3x or 4x?

3x, large flange hubs:

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Old 06-10-19, 11:50 PM
  #29  
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Here is the Nimble Website:

Welcome to Nimble

Nimble Fly, Carbon Rim
Carbon Tubular Rim: 340g
Front Hub: 68g
Rear Hub (Road?): 240g
Front (16 spokes): 490g
Rear (24 spokes): 735g
Total: 1225g

Nimble Spider, Aluminum Rim
Clincher Rim: 370g
Front Hub: 65g
Rear Hub (Road?): 220g
Front (16 spokes): 531g
Rear (24 spokes): 734g
Total: 1265g

Nimble Crosswind, Trispoke
Front Hub: 78g
Rear Hub (Road): 218g
Rear Hub (Track): 178
Front (Trispoke, Tubular): 693g
Rear (Trispoke, Road): 833g
Rear (Trispoke, Track): 793g

Total Road: 1526g
Total Track: 1486g

I think the skewers are extra, Front: 32g Ti Rear: 34.8g Ti (nuts for rear track, 30g)

Note, there are quite a few very light tubular tires, so say you can get a 200g tire, or so, that may be a substantial weight savings (simpler rims, no extra tube).

Of course, tubeless may be rapidly approaching the benefits of the tubular.

They don't seem to be listing track hubs for the Fly/Spider, although they may be an option. I think it is a fairly small US company, and you can always ask.

I'm not sure why the fly hubs are listed as heavier than the spider hubs.

Last edited by CliffordK; 06-10-19 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 06-11-19, 01:03 PM
  #30  
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My wife's road wheels are ~1200g clinchers. They're about 7 years old now (probably 7k miles). I had to replace one nipple a few years ago, but otherwise they've held up really well. They use Bikehubstore Ultralight front (66g) and Superlight rear (211g) hubs, Stans Alpha 340 rims (these were ~355g each), Sapim CX-Ray front and Laser rear spokes with aluminum nipples. Front wheel is 18h radial; rear is 2:1 24H with 2X drive side, radial non-drive side. With veloplugs, they weigh 1207g.
A modern fixed gear version would use a Raketa or Mack rear hub. Otherwise, I don't see much reason to change things. For the rear wheel, an old-stock hook bead 29er rim might save a few grams versus the current batch of Alpha 340 rims. For the front, you should stick with an aluminum rim for braking power. You could have a <1300g clincher wheelset for <$800. Depending on your weight and riding style, increasing the spoke counts to 20 front and/or 28 rear might be wise.
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Old 06-11-19, 02:40 PM
  #31  
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^ a wheelset like that is not for everyone. Depending on your weight and riding styling, those may not hold up. Those are not the strongest rims. Built well at 32h is one thing, but 18h is questionable for me.
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Old 06-12-19, 11:30 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by EnzoRWD View Post
^ a wheelset like that is not for everyone. Depending on your weight and riding styling, those may not hold up. Those are not the strongest rims. Built well at 32h is one thing, but 18h is questionable for me.
I bet the 2:1 lacing is what makes the rear wheel work at all.
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Old 06-13-19, 07:45 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
To me, skewers are not a place to go all-out weight weenie.
Tim-
I don't think it'd matters much on the front. Gravity is already on your side and there's no torque.

I love this thread.
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Old 06-13-19, 07:50 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I bet the 2:1 lacing is what makes the rear wheel work at all.
2:1 lacing a 32h hub to a 24h rim on a disc brake front wheel is one of the coolest tricks I've ever seen.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:29 AM
  #35  
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That 2:1 disc wheel pictured above isn't built with longevity in mind. As pictured, the tension on the disc side spokes would be much, much higher than the non-disc side. Similarly, the braking torque would have to be transmitted through the hubshell. For durability, there should be 16 spokes on the disc side and 8 on the non-disc side.

For a disc brake front wheel or non-disc rear wheel, 2:1 24h is nearly as strong as a conventional 32h arrangement. The spoke lacing on the loaded is identical. The biggest difference is that the span of rim between spokes is longer. I certainly wouldn't recommend shallow (<20mm deep) 24h rims for a rider over 150lbs.

Since the OP is riding a fixed gear with flip-flop hub, this 2:1 lacing discussion is off topic. He'll need a symmetric rear wheel with 2x or 3x lacing on both sides. With a stiff rim, 24 spokes should be fine. With the Alpha 340, a few more spokes would be wise.
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Old 06-15-19, 09:37 AM
  #36  
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I apologize for the hijack but since it looks like this thread may have run its course, perhaps I can glom onto it now with a question that kind of fits in here anyway...

The reason I am considering the light wheel build that I posted early on in this thread is for wider rims that everybody is raving about nowadays. But the fact is that I am a luddite who grew up on tiny tires and still prefer narrower tires on the road to this day. To me 25s are kinda fat & 28s are ginormous, but please let's not start down that road right here or now. My question is:

Do wider rims provide any benefit when combined with...errr...not-big tires?

TIA...
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Old 06-15-19, 11:23 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by IAmSam View Post

Do wider rims provide any benefit when combined with...errr...not-big tires?

TIA...
Wider rims would make for a rounder contact patch for a given tire diameter. And often times a smoother airflow from tire to rim as well.

Everyone seems to think wider tires provide less rolling resistance. That's true with one caveat: At the *same* pressure. The reason? A rounder/less oval contact patch. This holds true for smaller diameter wheels too.

Now, I don't know about you, but between a 23c & a 32c at the *same* 120psi...I'll prefer the ride of the 23c on a slightly wider rim anyday. You wouldn't want to run 32's at 120psi anyway. That's an awful lot of force driving your rim flanges/bead seat apart.

Wider tires will provide much more comfort and better resistance to pinch flats at lower pressures than skinnies due to additional air volume. So really it kind of comes out as a wash and only a couple of watts CRR either way you go.

AFIK: Continental GP5000 have the lowest Coefficient of Rolling Resistance of any clincher tire. Around 10 watts each IIRC. If I were in the market, I'd buy the 23c version & Continental Supersonic tubes.
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Old 06-15-19, 09:11 PM
  #38  
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Well, I could do 1357 grams for a little over $800 with Light Bicycle 25 mm clinchers and Mack hubs.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/Carbon-...g-surface.html

Those Raketa hubs are nice but I don't like the exposed bearing seals for road use.

25 mm Vittoria Rubino G+ Speed are 206 grams. I love these tires. Kung Fu grip and ride like silk sheets.

I tried Supersonic tubes at 52 grams/each but kept getting flats and now use 76 gram Continental Race Light tubes.

Velox tape is lighter than Continental rim strips and I don't like that the rim strips have a sharp edge where the ends overlap.


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Last edited by TimothyH; 06-15-19 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 06-16-19, 06:24 PM
  #39  
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Too heavy for your liking — and also out of stock at the moment — but at 1475g and an affordable price I’ve been very happy with my Wabi sub-light wheel set. Mine came true and strong. I outfitted mine with Compass 28c tires and never looked back.

https://wabicycles.com/collections/c...speed-wheelset
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Old 06-16-19, 07:25 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Dougbloch View Post
Too heavy for your liking — and also out of stock at the moment — but at 1475g and an affordable price I’ve been very happy with my Wabi sub-light wheel set. Mine came true and strong. I outfitted mine with Compass 28c tires and never looked back.

https://wabicycles.com/collections/c...speed-wheelset
Thanks.

I already own a pair.

Currently on another bike.


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Old 06-16-19, 09:53 PM
  #41  
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Interesting that you're using Velox. I'd think you could save a few grams with a modern tubeless tape.
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Old 06-17-19, 10:55 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Dougbloch View Post
Too heavy for your liking — and also out of stock at the moment — but at 1475g and an affordable price I’ve been very happy with my Wabi sub-light wheel set. Mine came true and strong. I outfitted mine with Compass 28c tires and never looked back.
Wabi's lighter wheelset is very good...but the rims are narrow

Well, as long as I'm here - I decided to blow off the wheel build I described in post #12 and made an offer on some porky low-budget wider pre-built wheels that are quite adequate for the intended use, so now I can also afford to buy the new lighter wheelset that I've been eyeing for my gearie...
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Old 06-17-19, 11:25 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by IAmSam View Post
Wabi's lighter wheelset is very good...but the rims are narrow

Well, as long as I'm here - I decided to blow off the wheel build I described in post #12 and made an offer on some porky low-budget wider pre-built wheels that are quite adequate for the intended use, so now I can also afford to buy the new lighter wheelset that I've been eyeing for my gearie...
Ha ha... decisions, decisions...

While I'm here, I just ordered rims and will likely order the MAC hubs soon enough.

They aren't going to be 1200 gram wheels but will be about 1/2 lb lighter than whats on the bike now. Going from 25 mm to 35 mm cross section will be a little bit more aero for when I try to drop roadies.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/carbon-...g-surface.html

I went with the newfangled grooved graphene brake track.


-Tim-
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Old 06-18-19, 08:57 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Ha ha... decisions, decisions...

While I'm here, I just ordered rims and will likely order the MAC hubs soon enough.

They aren't going to be 1200 gram wheels but will be about 1/2 lb lighter than whats on the bike now. Going from 25 mm to 35 mm cross section will be a little bit more aero for when I try to drop roadies.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/carbon-...g-surface.html

I went with the newfangled grooved graphene brake track.


-Tim-
Tim,

Like the profile on those rims, can't wait to see how they come out! The graphics are cool too. Is the guy in Canton building them?

Dave
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Old 06-19-19, 02:08 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bonsai171 View Post
Is the guy in Canton building them?
ProWheelBuilder in Cumming, yes, that is my plan.

It will take a while. I still have to order the hubs and I'm not in a rush for this.
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