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Can anyone explain this to me?

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Can anyone explain this to me?

Old 06-07-19, 08:37 PM
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SamSpade1941 
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Can anyone explain this to me?

I ran across this photo of a wheel for sale on CL . It has what looks to me like twisted spokes. Iíll be the very first to admit Iíve not even come close to seeing everything bicycle related and this is a first for me. Is there any advantage to this or was it a dumb attempt to be stylish or different ?






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Old 06-07-19, 08:44 PM
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There was a brief moment when these kinds of twisted-spoke wheels were cool, as part of the fixie craze of the early 2000s. There's not a whole to say about them except that they're visually unique; I recall reading an analysis somewhere showing that twisting the spokes that way doesn't significantly strengthen/weaken the wheel, it just complicates the build and truing process.
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Old 06-07-19, 08:47 PM
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Thanks ! when I saw this I was like WTH ? Just looking at it , kinda gave me the idea it did not add strength . It is crazy looking though
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Old 06-07-19, 09:15 PM
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No functional advantage; just cosmetic bling.
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Old 06-07-19, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
No functional advantage; just cosmetic bling.
Gotcha ... kinda like this nonsense ...

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Old 06-08-19, 04:45 AM
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Often referred to as a snowflake spoke pattern.
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Old 06-08-19, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Often referred to as a snowflake spoke pattern.
Because every pattern is unique or because millennials like them ?
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Old 06-08-19, 08:11 AM
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If you accidentally buy spokes that are too long, you might have to build the wheels like this so they will fit!
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Old 06-08-19, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchi84 View Post
If you accidentally buy spokes that are too long, you might have to build the wheels like this so they will fit!
Yup. Well, more likely I went to the bin of used spokes and they're all too long and I don't have the patience to order the right ones.

The problem that I've encountered is this: you twist the spokes together before you tension the wheel, so when you bring them up to tension you'll almost certainly end up with more tension on one side of the twist than the other. The overall tension may be right, but it will be too low in some places. As a result, the spoke will cycle in and out of tension as you ride, resulting in metal fatigue and (soon!) broken spokes. At least, that was my experience.
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Old 06-09-19, 10:44 AM
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There was a British firm in the early 1990s, Simplon Titanium, that was building twisted spoke racing wheels. The claim was that the wheels were laterally stiffer, equivalent to wheel built with a hub having a 20cm flange diameter. The magazine which tested them thought they felt like a good quality stiff wheel but not outrageously stiff. However, they were built using titanium spokes, which are not as rigid as steel. Basically, they were saving 70g per wheel, while retaining comparable stiffness. The magazine did mention that there was one pro team taking them under consideration.
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Old 06-09-19, 10:57 AM
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The OP's photo look as if they ran out of spokes and used clothes' hangers.
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Old 06-09-19, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
Often referred to as a snowflake spoke pattern.
I heard it called a crow's foot pattern. Probably because the boomer that named it was getting crows off his lawn at the time.
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Old 06-09-19, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I heard it called a crow's foot pattern. Probably because the boomer that named it was getting crows off his lawn at the time.
The crow's foot pattern predates that twisted spoke stuff and is a different thing. It was sort of a combination of radial and normal spoke patterns, and the spokes simply crossed each other -- no twists. Goes back to the 70s, if not earlier.

"You want that built crow's foot?" was sort of the standard joke when some customer you knew well brought in wheels for a rebuild.
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Old 06-09-19, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Yup. Well, more likely I went to the bin of used spokes and they're all too long and I don't have the patience to order the right ones.

The problem that I've encountered is this: you twist the spokes together before you tension the wheel, so when you bring them up to tension you'll almost certainly end up with more tension on one side of the twist than the other. The overall tension may be right, but it will be too low in some places. As a result, the spoke will cycle in and out of tension as you ride, resulting in metal fatigue and (soon!) broken spokes. At least, that was my experience.
You actually tried that?
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Old 06-09-19, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
You actually tried that?
You don't seem to appreciate how crazy some people are

Yes, I tried that. I'm pretty sure I still have a wheel I built this way...
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Old 06-09-19, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SamSpade1941 View Post
Because every pattern is unique or because millennials like them ?
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Old 06-09-19, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
The crow's foot pattern predates that twisted spoke stuff and is a different thing. It was sort of a combination of radial and normal spoke patterns, and the spokes simply crossed each other -- no twists. Goes back to the 70s, if not earlier.

"You want that built crow's foot?" was sort of the standard joke when some customer you knew well brought in wheels for a rebuild.
I built up a 40 hole sturmey archer hub with a 5 spoke crows foot pattern for my ex, its a neat look, and as I used a 40 hole tandem rim for the wheel it was PLENTY strong.

I've actually never seen another bike in real life with crows foot laced wheels.
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Old 06-09-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
You don't seem to appreciate how crazy some people are

Yes, I tried that. I'm pretty sure I still have a wheel I built this way...
Never took you for a hipster. I learn something new every day.
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Old 06-17-19, 04:39 PM
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I built one today.

I damaged an old rim but I wanted to keep the DA hub. I took the whole thing apart and used the spokes off it. The new rim has a little smaller ERD so the spokes wouldn't tension up.

I unlaced it and put in a twist. I managed to do it all during my toddlers nap. I stress relieved it a few times. I retrued again once I mounted the tire. It's fine. I did this 20 years ago with ti spokes. I don't recall it being difficult then either.

I'll check it after a ride a couple more times.

This is a spare wheel to my gravel bike, mounted up with road wheels, and almost exclusively used for dragging the previously mentioned toddler around in a trailer.
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Old 06-17-19, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lasauge View Post
There was a brief moment when these kinds of twisted-spoke wheels were cool, as part of the fixie craze of the early 2000s. There's not a whole to say about them except that they're visually unique; I recall reading an analysis somewhere showing that twisting the spokes that way doesn't significantly strengthen/weaken the wheel, it just complicates the build and truing process.
I always compared it to a poor mans's way of tying and soldering. Also remember when the bike shop guys started doing it with all of the builds claiming more strength. It didn't work when the guy who could destroy a wheel in less than a week got one. He destroyed that one too! Smiles, MH
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Old 06-17-19, 06:30 PM
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Man that looks like 💩
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Old 06-17-19, 06:45 PM
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I think you guys need to have been between 16 and 23 in the late 90s. Otherwise, this isn't a great idea.

After this build, I am about to change into plaid shorts and a flannel shirt. What the hell happened to all my glorious hair?
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Old 06-17-19, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
I always compared it to a poor mans's way of tying and soldering. Also remember when the bike shop guys started doing it with all of the builds claiming more strength. It didn't work when the guy who could destroy a wheel in less than a week got one. He destroyed that one too! Smiles, MH
Tying and soldering is noisy AF. Not a trick for road wheels!
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Old 06-17-19, 07:27 PM
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Rosey,
We figured out that tying and soldering didn't do anything for wheels back in the late 70's other than making the spokes more susceptible to breaking at the soldered joint because of the heat and the wheel wasn't any stronger. I think that the thought process was that there would be a second section of the wheel that was tied together with the twisting that would make the wheel stronger. I found there was way too little tension in the spokes to hold them in place for stronger riders and abandoned the idea. The wheels look cool but don't have any more strength to them. Smiles, MH

About yer hair and the plaid clothes; Keep the clothes and join the hair club for men! Har!

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