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Stepping up in Rideability from Conti 4000

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Stepping up in Rideability from Conti 4000

Old 06-11-19, 09:41 AM
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DaveLeeNC
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Stepping up in Rideability from Conti 4000

Using the Conti 4000s ii as a comparative base, what would you change to if you were looking for

1) Improved road chatter from chip-seal type pavement
2) Can't go over 25mm (where even that is really tight)
3) 160 pound rider
4) Clinchers

Thanks.

dave

ps. Note that 'same as or better' puncture resistance is not on the list
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Old 06-11-19, 10:02 AM
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4000 GP's aired down to 80/90? I used to ride the Vittoria Rubino Pro's until I got tired of replacing them. They wear quickly and aren't the most protective (you don't care and I never had much of an issue), but they ride great and are about as cheap as a decent tire comes.

I do have to ask though - if you're riding on chipseal and only can fit 25's...are you on the right bike for your road conditions? You'd feel better on 28 Fintstones than on 23 Conti's.
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Old 06-11-19, 10:07 AM
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Regarding the question

I do have to ask though - if you're riding on chipseal and only can fit 25's...are you on the right bike for your road conditions? You'd feel better on 28 Fintstones than on 23 Conti's.

Part of the reason for asking this question is to trade off the fact that there is a 'bike solution' to this problem. I just want to know how far I can go with what I've got before making that decision. FWIW, maybe 20% of my riding is chipseal (would probably be a bit more if it were more comfortable).

Thanks.

dave
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Old 06-11-19, 11:08 AM
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I don't think there is any 25-mm tire which is going to offer sufficient volume (not suppleness) to make chip-seal comfortable. Maybe if you go Really low in pressure and tubeless .....
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Old 06-11-19, 12:00 PM
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What pressure are you running, and what is the actual inflated width of your 25s?

For reference, I weigh around 204#, I have 25mm 4000s on HED Belgium rims (23mm external), inflated width of tires is 28mm. I run upper 90s rear and low to mid 80s front. I don't ride a lot of chipseal, but this combo isn't terrible for me when I do. At 160# you could go lower pressure than me.
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Old 06-11-19, 02:04 PM
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I run pressures in the low 90's and have tried pressures as low as 80 (all in 23mm which is what I usually ride). 80 s a bit better although it isn't night and day. And FWIW, for a couple years until late last year I was riding 25mm Gatorskins (which all of a sudden would no longer fit inside my fork).

While everything in this thread is interesting and useful, the real question in my mind is "is there something better than what I am riding now that would work on my existing bike WRT chipseal". An answer to that specific question is actually useful to me whether or not the resulting ride is 'comfortable' on chipseal. Since chipseal is only a small'ish portion of my riding it is a trade-off and there is a bigger trade-off (possible bike change) where this answer is useful (even if it is negative). So before I head off into new bike land (a place that I am not anxious to go) I would like to know how much of this problem I can (or cannot) solve on my existing bike.

Thanks.

dave

ps. The actual width on my 23mm 4000s ii's is 25.5mm.
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Old 06-11-19, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
I run pressures in the low 90's and have tried pressures as low as 80 (all in 23mm which is what I usually ride). 80 s a bit better although it isn't night and day. And FWIW, for a couple years until late last year I was riding 25mm Gatorskins (which all of a sudden would no longer fit inside my fork).

While everything in this thread is interesting and useful, the real question in my mind is "is there something better than what I am riding now that would work on my existing bike WRT chipseal". An answer to that specific question is actually useful to me whether or not the resulting ride is 'comfortable' on chipseal. Since chipseal is only a small'ish portion of my riding it is a trade-off and there is a bigger trade-off (possible bike change) where this answer is useful (even if it is negative). So before I head off into new bike land (a place that I am not anxious to go) I would like to know how much of this problem I can (or cannot) solve on my existing bike.

Thanks.

dave

ps. The actual width on my 23mm 4000s ii's is 25.5mm.
There ARE better option tires out there for what you're after. I'm told Specialized Turbo Cottons are quite good, and Compass tires are exceeding supple/soft as well.

Though personally, I would play around with tire pressure a bit more. I'd try going another 10 lbs lower and see if it's better. I doubt that would be underinflated at 160 lbs.
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Old 06-11-19, 04:15 PM
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Abe, on your tire pressure suggestion... Was it 10 pounds lower than what I typically ride (low 90's) or 10 pounds less than what I have tried (which is 80)?

Thanks for the tire suggestions.

dave
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Old 06-11-19, 04:17 PM
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I cannot find a better tire than Conti 4000ii's. I still run them 23 and they are plenty wide enough a true 23 if not a bit bigger. I weigh 170 run about 100 psi in rear and 94is on front. These tires go for me 6000 miles. I ride on chipseal but still pretty good roads. I cannot take them on any gravel but they grip well and so far no flat issues. I just cannot think of a better tire unless you are willing to change them out every 2-3000 miles. The gain in somehow getting a better rolling resistance or ride is just not that much different. The conti's last for sure way longer than any other tire I have used.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:30 PM
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some might say Compass tires are the best

due to supple casings.
https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...6-cayuse-pass/

i personally really like Conti 4000ii. I'm 190 and run 80 front 70 rear no pinch flats ever. I run 28mm tires on A23 rims. Tires measure out to 30mm on those rims.

now that I have my 2019 Specialized Roubaix dialed in I do believe it is a great chip seal killer...Future Shock combined with CGR seatpost.
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Old 06-12-19, 08:40 AM
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Can you fit the new gp5000 25? They are more true to size and a bit thinner and more supple all around. Also are you already using latex tubes? You should be
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Old 06-12-19, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Can you fit the new gp5000 25? They are more true to size and a bit thinner and more supple all around. Also are you already using latex tubes? You should be
This is interesting. First of all just 2 days ago I needed to replace my rear tire and used a 5000. Low and behold it is roughly 0.5mm smaller than the 4000 on the front (both 23's measuring closer to 25mm). And this leads to a couple of additional questions.

First I have run latex tubes but never on my 'daily wheels'. Is latex REALLY more flat prone (in the long run) than butyl? They most certainly are more fragile but it seems to me that anything that would puncture a latex tube is ultimately a problem for butyl as well (somewhere down the road). Probably no crisp answers here, but thought I would ask.

I have lots of room in the rear and could easily run 28's on the back. How much of the vibration feel that is driven by tire size/pressure comes from the rear?

Thanks.

dave
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Old 06-12-19, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
This is interesting. First of all just 2 days ago I needed to replace my rear tire and used a 5000. Low and behold it is roughly 0.5mm smaller than the 4000 on the front (both 23's measuring closer to 25mm). And this leads to a couple of additional questions.

First I have run latex tubes but never on my 'daily wheels'. Is latex REALLY more flat prone (in the long run) than butyl? They most certainly are more fragile but it seems to me that anything that would puncture a latex tube is ultimately a problem for butyl as well (somewhere down the road). Probably no crisp answers here, but thought I would ask.

I have lots of room in the rear and could easily run 28's on the back. How much of the vibration feel that is driven by tire size/pressure comes from the rear?

Thanks.

dave
I guess that I should add that long/technical descents are just not something that occur often around my home area (strictly rolling terrain). So overheating a latex tube is unlikely for me (at least in my daily rides in my home area).

dave

Last edited by DaveLeeNC; 06-12-19 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 06-12-19, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
ps. The actual width on my 23mm 4000s ii's is 25.5mm.
I was going to mention that. Conti's run notoriously wider than many tires (as you indicated almost a full size). My understanding (perhaps incorrect) is that the rounder profile of the tire should give a larger contact patch and a smoother ride at higher pressures vs. a "taller" tire. Aired down even more so, and at 160# you shouldn't be worried about pinching.

Honestly, I think you're chasing vapor. I'd keep airing down until you've taken that as far as you can.
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Old 06-12-19, 10:24 AM
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FWIW, this thread is the "flip side" of this one (that I also started). dave

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...ane-thing.html
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Old 06-12-19, 10:43 AM
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Hope you plan to keep that Bianchi in your stable
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Old 06-12-19, 10:50 AM
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Yes - the Bianchi stays no matter what I do regarding another (if any) bike.

This is it (before I made a handlebar change and with my 'race wheels'). Latex tubes, BTW :-)

dave
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Old 06-12-19, 11:20 AM
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Schwalbe One.
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Old 06-12-19, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
This is interesting. First of all just 2 days ago I needed to replace my rear tire and used a 5000. Low and behold it is roughly 0.5mm smaller than the 4000 on the front (both 23's measuring closer to 25mm). And this leads to a couple of additional questions.
Measure the height and width for comparison. If they end up at the same width and the gp5000 is taller as the same pressure, you can remove 5psi and still have the same level of snakebite protection when hitting potholes etc. and have overall a cushier ride.

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
First I have run latex tubes but never on my 'daily wheels'. Is latex REALLY more flat prone (in the long run) than butyl? They most certainly are more fragile but it seems to me that anything that would puncture a latex tube is ultimately a problem for butyl as well (somewhere down the road). Probably no crisp answers here, but thought I would ask.
Latex is actual less puncture prone, the drawbacks are that they are harder to set up because they are so thin its easy to pinch them between the bead and rim, but once installed all you have to do is pump them up daily. I simply run latex tubes and carry butyl spares so I don't have to deal with that on the road if I happen to flat.

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
I have lots of room in the rear and could easily run 28's on the back. How much of the vibration feel that is driven by tire size/pressure comes from the rear?

Thanks.

dave
For sure if you can fit a 28 in the rear you should and run it at a lower pressure correspondingly, heck if you can stuff the 32 in there do it. There is basically no aero penalty on the rear and a minimal weight difference. I used to run 23/25 combinations all the time on bikes with tight clearances. ~60% of the weight distribution is on the rear of the bike so some of that is going to come up through the frame
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Old 06-12-19, 01:57 PM
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Have you tried the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires? (Now there's a G 2.0 I haven't tried yet.) I've moved to the 28c G+ on my good bikes that will fit them. Haven't ridden the 25c yet simply because I have so many older Corsa and Open Paves that size I need to wear out first.

Those tires are very comfortable tires. Expensive, yes. I doubt they last like the Continentals and probably flat more often. I don't ride Continentals simply because they have a ride I don't like (and the ones I've ridden had grip I didn't trust).

Ben
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Old 06-12-19, 02:07 PM
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I ride Corsa G+ tires on my CAAD (size c28) and the ride is quite nice and significantly better than the stock tires from Cannondale. I run at 80psi.
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Have you tried the Vittoria Corsa G+ tires? (Now there's a G 2.0 I haven't tried yet.) I've moved to the 28c G+ on my good bikes that will fit them. Haven't ridden the 25c yet simply because I have so many older Corsa and Open Paves that size I need to wear out first.

Those tires are very comfortable tires. Expensive, yes. I doubt they last like the Continentals and probably flat more often. I don't ride Continentals simply because they have a ride I don't like (and the ones I've ridden had grip I didn't trust).

Ben
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Old 06-12-19, 02:16 PM
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I noticed a big different between my old GP4000s and the Vittoria Corsa G+ (the original, not the new 2.0 ones) that I went to afterwards. They're not as durable but they ride so much better to me.
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Old 06-12-19, 02:20 PM
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I've ridden them about 1,500 mi and had no flats. Just completed a Century on my aluminum CAAD12 with these tires and had no issues with fatigue from vibration. Only minor dislike is that the cotton sidewalls look really dirty and disgusting.

Originally Posted by Peter2290 View Post
I noticed a big different between my old GP4000s and the Vittoria Corsa G+ (the original, not the new 2.0 ones) that I went to afterwards. They're not as durable but they ride so much better to me.
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Old 06-12-19, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethetown View Post

SNIP

Honestly, I think you're chasing vapor. I'd keep airing down until you've taken that as far as you can.
You are probably correct. But since the alternative is pretty pricey (new bike) I am maybe being a bit more 'diligent' than I would if it were a less expensive trade-off.

And quite frankly there is nothing here that demands that anything be changed (other than maybe getting off those Gatorskins which I have already done).

dave
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Old 06-12-19, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
Abe, on your tire pressure suggestion... Was it 10 pounds lower than what I typically ride (low 90's) or 10 pounds less than what I have tried (which is 80)?

Thanks for the tire suggestions.

dave
Lower than 80. So 70. Which would definitely be on the low side, but at your weight I don't think it would be stupid low. If you're not racing a crit or blasting around corners, constantly sprinting out of the saddle, I would think 70 pounds might be enough. More importantly, it's a free test, with only the potential cost of replacing a tube if it IS too low and you pinch flat.

Also, I think you asked earlier about front/back vibration. Most comes from the back IMO. With a size up on tire, for sure you could get away with 70 psi. Maybe less.
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