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Stepping up in Rideability from Conti 4000

Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Stepping up in Rideability from Conti 4000

Old 06-13-19, 06:51 PM
  #51  
redlude97
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
True. Hell of a lot more weight on the seatpost though..
Kind of, most of the weight should be on your feet, also for the seat I find the saddle base material to make the most difference, going from a fizik antares to a fabric scoop with a plastic base that handflexes also made a huge difference in comfort on the gravel and cx bike
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Old 06-14-19, 07:09 AM
  #52  
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I've used Michelin many pro 3 and now pro 4 tires. I ride 12 miles of chip seal on nearly every ride. I use 23mm, but plan to switch to 25mm, when my current tires wear out. They ride good enough for me. I weigh 140.

I plan to buy the endurance version rather than the pro 4 service course.

Contis are notorious for harsh riding. I have gatorskins on my winter bike. I can tell the difference.

I buy tires in groups of three - two for the rear and one for the front.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:21 AM
  #53  
TimothyH
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Comparing Gatorskins to Michelin Pro3/4 is apples to oranges. They are not the same class of tire.

Gatorskins are objectively harsh and sluggish. I'm not a fan of Continental tires but lets be fair - they have much better tires than Gatorskins.


-Tim-
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Old 06-14-19, 11:21 AM
  #54  
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https://redshiftsports.com/shockstop...nsion-seatpost

No reviews for this suspension seatpost because it hasnít delivered yet, but for $160, this will probably give you the most comfort/$. Whether youíll still be able to pedal with the same forcefulness is another question. I imagine they did some research into that. Itís my belief that in 20-30 years, road bikes will almost all have suspension of some sort, even if quite minimal because everyone will finally realize the extent to which getting beat up by the road slows you down and skittering across the tarmac reduces your grip. So you have the opportunity to be a pioneer.

You can also try the vittoria corsas like many people have recommended. Unfortunately theyíre not available in TLR in the 23c size. So youíll need to go clincher. However, I personally have been running Orange endurace sealant in my continental race tubes to excellent results. Iíve pulled a nail out of the rear tire and it sealed despite the tire being a normal clincher. I frequently run 40 psi front, 50 psi rear depending on conditions (25mm tires but I weigh 62kg). Iíve SLAMMED potholes at these pressures, and Iím sure I dented my rims slightly but theyíre cheap and alloy so Iím not too worried. Iíve literally never flatted. OK, one time a staple got caught in my rear tire and I rode it for around 10 miles (ďis my rear soft? No it must be in my head.Ē Until the sidewall collapsed in a turn because I was probably around 10psi).

The point is, you can go *very* low with tire pressure if you use sealant and have somewhat wide rims (17mm rims with fat 23 mm tires is fine). Youíll have to get used to the fact that the tires will feel squishier (because they are). The tires will feel draggier when out of the saddle because the central tread flexes more when leaning the bike. However, if youíre riding on quite rough roads, Iíd bet that youíll be faster over long distances anyway.

Another thing you can look at is maximizing rim width. You should be able to go up to a 21mm rim with a 23mm tire. This will reduce the floppiness of the tire at very low pressures. You could also go with a very light, low profile rim - somewhere around 21 - 25mm deep. Then go with a relatively elastic spoke like sapim Lasers, CX Rays, DT aerolites or even Spinergy spokes which are supposed actually be a lot better.

Last edited by smashndash; 06-14-19 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:41 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
If anyone has any, I'd like some input on comfort differences going to carbon bars and seat post.
We can take lessons from gravel here.

In general, a smaller diameter and longer seatposts will absorb vibration better. Some gravel bikes have seatposts specifically designed to do so. The RDO post on my Niner is one example. I rode a Salsa Cutthroat on a trainer and thought that the rear tire needed air until I realized that the seatpost was flexing. Salsa designed it to do this on purpose.

https://ninerbikes.com/products/niner-rdo-seatpost

The Ergon CF3 isn't cheap but reports are that it really works to absorb vibration.

https://unicornbattleground.com/post...gon-cf3-review

I believe the Canyon VCLF seatpost is designed similarly. It doesn't look like it will play well with Di2 though.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ro/gear/co...st/148286.html

Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Kind of, most of the weight should be on your feet, also for the seat I find the saddle base material to make the most difference, going from a fizik antares to a fabric scoop with a plastic base that handflexes also made a huge difference in comfort on the gravel and cx bike
This can't be stressed enough and is a great point. Another area to look is the saddle.

I own the Fabric Scoop Ultimate Carbon with flexible base and again, thought the rear tire was low the first time I rode it because it was flexing. It helps a lot. People riding behind me have commented that they can see the base flex. I'd be surprised if there were not other brands.

My point is that those concerned with vibration damping might want to look into some of the gravel specific technologies and products out there.


-Tim-
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Old 06-14-19, 11:51 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
We can take lessons from gravel here.

In general, a smaller diameter and longer seatposts will absorb vibration better. Some gravel bikes have seatposts specifically designed to do so. The RDO post on my Niner is one example. I rode a Salsa Cutthroat on a trainer and thought that the rear tire needed air until I realized that the seatpost was flexing. Salsa designed it to do this on purpose.

https://ninerbikes.com/products/niner-rdo-seatpost

The Ergon CF3 isn't cheap but reports are that it really works to absorb vibration.

https://unicornbattleground.com/post...gon-cf3-review

I believe the Canyon VCLF seatpost is designed similarly. It doesn't look like it will play well with Di2 though.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ro/gear/co...st/148286.html



This can't be stressed enough and is a great point. Another area to look is the saddle.

I own the Fabric Scoop Ultimate Carbon with flexible base and again, thought the rear tire was low the first time I rode it because it was flexing. It helps a lot. People riding behind me have commented that they can see the base flex. I'd be surprised if there were not other brands.

My point is that those concerned with vibration damping might want to look into some of the gravel specific technologies and products out there.


-Tim-
I was just gonna say this. The carbon d-fuse post that is on my Giant Revolt gravel bike is very comfortable. You can feel it flexing, and on the road it absorbs a lot of the rough pavement, joints, etc.
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Old 06-14-19, 03:24 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Comparing Gatorskins to Michelin Pro3/4 is apples to oranges. They are not the same class of tire.

Gatorskins are objectively harsh and sluggish. I'm not a fan of Continental tires but lets be fair - they have much better tires than Gatorskins.


-Tim-
I agree, but a lot of Conti users say that the 4000/5000 ride harshly too. I've ridden plenty of top of the line contis too, but it's been quite awhile. I can't complain about the michelins.
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Old 06-14-19, 04:14 PM
  #58  
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Specialized Turbo Cottons 26mm with Latex tubes is pretty darn smooth. I tried the Vittoria G+ and went right back to the Turbo Cottons. First season I ran latex front only because I'm a heavy weight (195) but I've since gone with latex on the back . Incredibly I haven't flatted (knock wood) since I ride some big groups and riding right of the white line in the crap is common. I'm probably just lucky and it's just a matter of time because the turbos are getting worn.
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Old 06-14-19, 09:15 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I run the Vittoria G+ 28c at 90 psi front, 93 rear. I weight 155 lbs. Bike is traditional 531 steel and moderately stiff for those tubes. Open Pro rims, 32 or 36 spokes and as many crosses as feasible.

I'd probably run the 25c tires 10 psi higher.





I will never run a big difference in pressure front to rear. Racing days, the word was 5 psi or less. We never questioned it nor regretted it. Now I hear the "experts" say we should adjust our pressures by the percentage of weight front and rear. No way am I ever doing that! If I hit a stone in a hard stop behind a car, I DO NOT want to ever pinch flat and blow a front tire. But in that hard stop, I have 100% of my weight on that tire. Carefully adjusting the pressure to be best at 40%? Not me! I'll stick to what those vets told me 40+ years ago. Knowledge that was probably 80 years old then.

Ben
This. Especially braking hard approaching a turn on a descent. Underinflated front is asking for it.
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Old 06-14-19, 10:56 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
This. Especially braking hard approaching a turn on a descent. Underinflated front is asking for it.
Any concerns with 80/90 front/rear on 28c clinchers? I weigh 142.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:34 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Any concerns with 80/90 front/rear on 28c clinchers? I weigh 142.
If you're riding surfaces other than smooth asphalt, that's probably overinflated.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:35 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
Any concerns with 80/90 front/rear on 28c clinchers? I weigh 142.
Should be OK. I'd probably run more like 82/87. (I also come far forward when I climb out of the saddle and really don't like squishy front tires when I do that.)
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Old 06-15-19, 02:10 AM
  #63  
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Found this site about rolling resistance, some other good info, not sure if it was shared yet or if it helps
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/

I have only ever had Hutchinson Fusion and Vitto Rubino in the past in size 23 and had great luck with both on previous road bike

My new bike came with Specialized Turbo Pro in 28 they are quiet and its super cush, but also have thicker bar tape, cobble seat post, crabon frame and future shock compared to last bike

I ride lots of chip seal, railroad tracks, over tree root risings, low maintained roads, hard pack and the occasional gravel
Had one slow leak flat at 520 miles, took a day to notice. May been to early to review them yet (currently 600miles)
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Old 06-15-19, 01:23 PM
  #64  
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I personally think the gp4k and now the gp5k (have not tried myself) is puncture proof enough imo.
I have read others say the 4 seasons are better. i have no idea. but i have feeling they are right. otherwise why would so many people say these are better?

My own experience is this:

conti with 5mm of yellow "plus" foam/rubber inside. i rode these through a sea of heroin needles! for several years (maybe 10000km in total). and not one single time did they puncture and not one single time did my tires get aids. but lets just say i didn't really lick these ones.

you can can probsbly get by with only vectran/kevlar weave/fabric for a long long time though. it works for me at least.

Last edited by carlos danger; 06-15-19 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 06-15-19, 07:46 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC View Post
I rode today seeking out chipseal to try out. I was riding my existing tires at 80F/85R as a very conservative test (highly confident that this will not be creating issues). I will be trying lower pressure later. And I mostly just paid attention to what I was feeling.

1) This is incrementally more comfortable than the low 90's pressures that I had been using.

2) There is a difference between the vibration of chipseal and a bumpy road. This is hardly a surprise, but I had never thought about that. They are pretty different issues, probably having different solutions (it seemed to me).

3) I paid really attention to the transition between good asphalt and the chipseal stuff as in "what is it about this chipseal that is uncomfortable?". And my conclusion was that vibration clearly coming up through the seatpost (as is mostly from the rear wheel) was probably 60% of the discomfort. I was not expecting that. So lower pressures and probably wider rear tires is definitely in play here.

There are other options including other tire pressures (and tire makes/models), latex tubes, and adding some kind of foam cushioning to my handlebars in the "sweet spot" a smidge to the rear of the horns of my shifters where my hands tend to spend most of their time. I am speculating that this will be the same as or more effective than either bar tape or a second glove.

This reminds me of the process that I have gone through more than once of trying to find 'a better sound from my guitar strings' (nylon - I play a classical guitar). But in the guitar case new strings cost (typically) between $7 and $20 and an aggressive 'start to end of string' is only 3-4 weeks. The experiment is a bit more expensive on a bike and the 'natural cycle' a good bit slower.

dave
Yesterday was a rest day (golf day, anyway). But I rode again today at 5 pounds lower pressure (75/80). Compared to what I was riding a week ago, this is clearly an improvement. Somehow that extra 5 pounds seemed to matter as much as the 10 pound reduction did yesterday. I will probably add padding around the hands in some form (gloves, bar tape, other bar padding) and stay here until I have to change tires, where a larger rear tire (and different tire and tube makes) will be tried.

Thanks for all the very helpful input.

dave
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Old 06-15-19, 07:55 PM
  #66  
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I ride the Specialized Turbo Pro's that came on my Roubaix. Even though the bike is designed for comfort, the 2017 SL4 Sport model rides stiffly. I had been using 95 PSI (according to the gage on my Park pump) but on yesterday's ride I backed down to 80. The difference was easily noticeable. By the way I weigh about 205.
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Old 06-17-19, 11:44 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by eflayer View Post
due to supple casings.
https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...6-cayuse-pass/

i personally really like Conti 4000ii. I'm 190 and run 80 front 70 rear no pinch flats ever. I run 28mm tires on A23 rims. Tires measure out to 30mm on those rims.

now that I have my 2019 Specialized Roubaix dialed in I do believe it is a great chip seal killer...Future Shock combined with CGR seatpost.
I have 2 sets of wheels, one with Conti GP4000S-II in 28 on a 23-type rim, yep 30mm. It just clears my wife's steel Bianchi road bike. The hard part is the brake QR does not open wide enough so wiggling is the rule of thumb. By close, I mean 2-3mm to the crown.

I am a bit heavier than you and my main set was Compass Chinook Pass 28s that measure a true 28. They are better than the Contis, but I like the Contis also. I just fit replaced the Compass 28s with 32 (true 32) Stampede Pass, but do not have enough miles to really say better, yet. All three of those sets of tires are very good. I find I can ride the Compass with higher pressures yet still be comfortable and not get pinch flats in lightweight tubes.
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