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Rainman slaps Garmin

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Rainman slaps Garmin

Old 06-14-19, 05:26 PM
  #51  
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The Edge 800 works fine (even if it's not perfect). It can have trouble picking up the right leg if you start the course at an out-and-back section.

It has issues recording long rides (more than about 180 miles) and the unit can hang when trying to do that. It's a known limitation, so it doesn't make much sense for anybody to keep using it that way. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it in these forums.

Navigating with really-long routes might be an issue too. In any case, it's better practice to split longer routes up. That way, if you need to restart the navigation later, you don't have to process the early part you don't need.

The last firmware update for the 800 is 4-5 years old. It would be odd for someone to just getting around to updating it now.

===================

The 1030 seems to work fairly well (for navigation). Once in a while, there is an issue where the turn guidance doesn't start (it calculates the turn guidance but it doesn't use it).

Setting up the BT is a bit flaky but, once paired, I haven't seen any issues with a 7 year old iPhone.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:27 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
TBF, Wahoo had almost an entire lineup of KICKR Core trainers fail and tried to cover it up, everything from electronics to bearings and people getting multiple duds
I think there were more than a few issues with the RFLKT product.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:31 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
I think there were more than a few issues with the RFLKT product.
Took Wahoo about a year to turn around their bike computer OS. It was broken and buggy on debut--but they fixed it well and fast.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by guachi View Post
I'm new to cycling (at least the tech part of it). All the negative comments about Garmin software have meant that I'll be buying a Wahoo instead. So it's lost them at least one sale.
A lot more people use Garmins and have done so for longer than anybody using Wahoo head units. So, it should be surprising that you hear more negative comments about the Garmins.

The Wahoos seem like fine units.

They have the same basic functionality as the 520 (though, Wahoo might implement that basic navigation in a bit nicer way).
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Old 06-14-19, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Took Wahoo about a year to turn around their bike computer OS. It was broken and buggy on debut--but they fixed it well and fast.
The new units are successful. The RFLKT types weren't very (it seems).

The new units provide the same functionality as the Garmin 520 (which is a "pretty basic" unit in the Garmin line).

People seem to really like the (recent) Wahoo units.

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-14-19 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:51 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
Life360 can track you by your wife if you carry a phone with you anyway. I tried the LiveTracking on Garmin but stopped using it for the exact reason you described - who wants to stop in the middle of group ride.
Thanks for the info. Is that function included in the free version, if I read it correctly ? KB
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Old 06-14-19, 06:19 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
A lot more people use Garmins and have done so for longer than anybody using Wahoo head units. So, it should be surprising that you hear more negative comments about the Garmins.

The Wahoos seem like fine units.

They have the same basic functionality as the 520 (though, Wahoo might implement that basic navigation in a bit nicer way).
Garmin's problems have been systemic for a decade.

I put up with "features" of Edges 205, 305, 705, and 1000. The first three all eventually had the Edge Narcolepsy hardware design flaw (a battery spring that over time lost its spring resulting in intermittent contact over bumps, hence the computer shutting down, hence "narcolepsy")...In addition to the Public Beta firmware. The Edge 1000, took 2 years after release to not suck--a firmware update for it broke Garmin's OWN HRM straps; not joking they didn't even QA their own HRM straps....and even after 2 years you still read complaints about smartphone pairing bugs, weekly posts about iPhones not talking etc.

Then we could all sing praises about Garmin Connect. The warhorse that barely worked to start...THEN Garmin re-invented to "Modern" Windows design and the thing loaded slower than a cruiseship.

Garmin's support of its own software and standards was so awful for so long, and computers so unstable and losing so many rides...finally a random German programmer had enough and created an MS Access tool to fix corrupted Garmin ride files...since Garmin could never be bothered to.

Who remembers needing Bike Route Toaster and the half a dozen mapping/ride tools to make routable ride files, because Garmin never bothered to make a toolset to do it? OH RIGHT-and you had to BUY City Navigator for $100 to make your computer worth a damn. They made the computers capable to follow routes--but as with FFT, left it to random people on the internet to properly support their own tech. People now are absolutely pampered with Strava or routing Edge computers...in the 705/305/205 days it was a nightmare to make route files.

Who hasn't dreaded that "UPDATE AVAILABLE" announcement on their Edge right before a bike ride....because you know if you take it something will probably break like say the above E1K update that killed my HRM pairing, or like all those 3rd party ConnectIQ readout screens.


Wahoo...they made a touchscreen-less bike computer the way Garmin should have all along. Easy programming with a paired smartphone, no fussing with 3 buttons like on a VCR to set it up. The thing just worked. You didn't need to buy extra software, or use an unwieldy broken web portal...and after a rough start it "just works" (see the original RFLKT and ELEMNT reviews from DCR to hear him grump about bugs...then see his review about the Bolt).

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 06-14-19 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 06-14-19, 06:55 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Garmin's problems have been systemic for a decade.

I put up with "features" of Edges 205, 305, 705, and 1000. The first three all eventually had the Edge Narcolepsy hardware design flaw (a battery spring that over time lost its spring resulting in intermittent contact over bumps, hence the computer shutting down, hence "narcolepsy")...In addition to the Public Beta firmware. The Edge 1000, took 2 years after release to not suck--a firmware update for it broke Garmin's OWN HRM straps; not joking they didn't even QA their own HRM straps....and even after 2 years you still read complaints about smartphone pairing bugs, weekly posts about iPhones not talking etc.

Then we could all sing praises about Garmin Connect. The warhorse that barely worked to start...THEN Garmin re-invented to "Modern" Windows design and the thing loaded slower than a cruiseship.

Garmin's support of its own software and standards was so awful for so long, and computers so unstable and losing so many rides...finally a random German programmer had enough and created an MS Access tool to fix corrupted Garmin ride files...since Garmin could never be bothered to.

Who remembers needing Bike Route Toaster and the half a dozen mapping/ride tools to make routable ride files, because Garmin never bothered to make a toolset to do it? OH RIGHT-and you had to BUY City Navigator for $100 to make your computer worth a damn. They made the computers capable to follow routes--but as with FFT, left it to random people on the internet to properly support their own tech. People now are absolutely pampered with Strava or routing Edge computers...in the 705/305/205 days it was a nightmare to make route files.

Who hasn't dreaded that "UPDATE AVAILABLE" announcement on their Edge right before a bike ride....because you know if you take it something will probably break like say the above E1K update that killed my HRM pairing, or like all those 3rd party ConnectIQ readout screens.


Wahoo...they made a touchscreen-less bike computer the way Garmin should have all along. Easy programming with a paired smartphone, no fussing with 3 buttons like on a VCR to set it up. The thing just worked. You didn't need to buy extra software, or use an unwieldy broken web portal...and after a rough start it "just works" (see the original RFLKT and ELEMNT reviews from DCR to hear him grump about bugs...then see his review about the Bolt).
So, one company did stuff no other company was even thinking about doing. And you are complaining that they didn't provide everything available now at the start? That makes no sense.

The Wahoo doesn't support even the level of navigation that the ancient 705 did (and the 705 is still usable today).

Companies (including Garmin) can now provide maps free due to openstreetmap (OSM). I like OSM but the coverage, even now, is rather "variable".

Garmin has had PC based routing programs (MapSource and BaseCamp) for years.

There are more bugs then there should be in the Garmin products.

The RFLKT was a dud product. Wahoo abandoned the approach they used for that.

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-14-19 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 06-17-19, 11:51 AM
  #59  
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I am glad to finally see someone widely read comment about Garmin's instability and bugs. I have used Garmin products for many years in my car and on my bike. No longer use them for cars because Google Maps works much better with CarPlay, primarily due to the search function actually being useful. On the bike, I was happy with the 305, 500 and the 800. The 800 is today in my opinion still the best and simplest to use navigation and TBT device. Problems started in force with the intro of the 810, which was very buggy and never worked as well as the 800. The 820 was a complete disaster for me and I sold the unit after really trying to use it for 3 months. I ride with many other Garmin users and they constantly have issues with their units - I never spent the money to upgrade to the 1000 as I saw the same problems with that device. A little over 2 years ago I bought a Wahoo Elemnt and it has provide me with uninterrupted reliable service. Garmin continues to add features (most of which no one wants) with every new model but never addresses the underlying bugs, errors and unreliable service, and in many cases won't even acknowledge they exist. And to echo DCRM, at least where I ride we are starting to see more and more Wahoos in use. In my cycling circle, I'd say 40% of riders with GPS are now using Wahoo; 2 years ago it was maybe 5%.
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Old 06-17-19, 01:22 PM
  #60  
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A Garmin has been required equipment on all of the Santana tandem tours we’ve taken. We’ve used various units over the years and all have caused frustration for my stoker-navigator. We’ve recently switched to RidewithGPS on an iPhone X mounted using Quadlock. So much better than a Garmin. Much better software and features, better screen and viewing, better user interface. Creating, finding, downloading routes is easy, even fun. Using offline maps and other RwGPS tips, the iPhone X battery lasts many hours, and bringing along an auxiliary battery is always an option for really long days. Can’t see us using a Garmin again.
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Old 06-17-19, 06:19 PM
  #61  
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When I picked up my second warranty replacement Edge 1000, I started looking around. Had the Wahoo for a couple of years now with no problems. Won’t be going back.
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Old 06-17-19, 07:41 PM
  #62  
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I liked my Bolt, but. Couldn’t read the TBT white on black text with sunglasses on. Seems like an easy thing to allow as a user configuration, but Wahoo declined. As well the Wahoo maps are entirely road centric and there’s no ability to load other maps on a Wahoo, which I think is a major failing. My Garmin 1000 has BT bugs as well as flaky to useless Live Track, but has great maps including topo’s that show gravel roads that are not on a Bolt. And no TrailForks on a Wahoo
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Old 06-18-19, 09:43 AM
  #63  
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If you like long rides (> 6 hrs), you're more likely to experience Garmin failure in your rides. My Garmin 520 crashed approximately once of every six century rides. That is, one Garmin failure every ~42 hrs of rides. For most, it's probably quite acceptable. For some that enjoy long rides/Century/Gran Fondo events, it could be troublesome, since you would like the events being recorded accurately. As a result, I've seen people using two devices to record their important rides. In addition to my Garmin 520, I always use Strava on my Apple Watch in the paid cycling events.
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Old 06-18-19, 12:41 PM
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Owned a Garmin Edge 1000 since 2017. Does it work mostly? Yes. Will I buy another Garmin unit? No.

There are so many quality-of-life issue plaguing this device, everything from clunky UI design to unreliability.

I'm a software engineer myself, when I look at this Edge device, I have to ask : Do the Garmin Edge engineers use this device when they ride? Pretty sure the answer is no.

Cycling computers seem to be a pretty sizable market, and I hope for the day another company(Apple, Microsoft, Google) takes a crack at it. And blow away the joke that is Garmin.
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Old 06-18-19, 01:49 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by hsuehhwa View Post
If you like long rides (> 6 hrs), you're more likely to experience Garmin failure in your rides. My Garmin 520 crashed approximately once of every six century rides. That is, one Garmin failure every ~42 hrs of rides. For most, it's probably quite acceptable. For some that enjoy long rides/Century/Gran Fondo events, it could be troublesome, since you would like the events being recorded accurately. As a result, I've seen people using two devices to record their important rides. In addition to my Garmin 520, I always use Strava on my Apple Watch in the paid cycling events.
Interesting result ?
I ride long hrs nearly every weekend for a few years now on Garmin Edge Explore, and 130
Not a single failure
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Old 06-18-19, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Interesting result ?
I ride long hrs nearly every weekend for a few years now on Garmin Edge Explore, and 130
Not a single failure

I've been riding years with Garmin 500 and 800 without any problems, as far as I could remember.

Garmin 520 only started to have problems after Mar 2018. The screen froze periodically, immediately after I switch screens (I have a main screen with major items I need for most rides, and a screen for long climbing with more elevation/power related data fields). Lost Satellite problem has been on and off. There are a lot of discussions on the internet. I do have a few of sensors connected: power meter, HRT, speed sensors. Usually I turn the Bluetooth function off during my ride.
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Old 06-18-19, 04:09 PM
  #67  
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The only GPS I ever had prior to smart phones was very basic, for geocaching. Like Backwards Bill, it didn't know where it was going but seen where it's been. I think it was a Garmin, but wouldn't swear to it. When I decided wanted to use GPS on my bicycle, I had an iPhone and Strava was free. Now it works with BT accessories. Why even bother with adding another head unit?
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Old 06-19-19, 09:36 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My point is that the topic doesn't deserve a 3800 word manifesto.

It is old news, Garmin isn't going to listen and it's entire purpose is to create controversy and thereby drive page views.


-Tim-
I completely disagree. Reviewers have seemed to turn a blind eye to Garmin's horrible bug problem and total lack of testing. Before this, you pretty much had to buy a Garmin device, and go through hell trying to get it to work, and to keep it working. Only then, do you realize that Garmin software completely sucks.. At least now, prospective buyers can see a reviewer (and all the commenters to the review) highlight the types of problems that folks have with these devices. Some prospective buyers will instead forego buying the garmin and get something more stable, and save themselves a lot of grief.

Personally, I think an article of this type is LONG overdue. Garmin probably won't listen and change, but prospective buyers may be save a lot of frustration and regret.

As a side note, I think its hilarious (and sad at the same time) that Garmin "upgraded" its forum website, and now it is much worse and several key forums are still offline. This is just like their device software updates. A lack of testing, lost features, lots of customers cussing as a result. Typical Garmin...
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Old 06-19-19, 08:17 PM
  #69  
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I had a Wahoo RFLKT... it was garbage; passed it on to a young rider without the resources to buy something; seemed to work OK for him; difference... I'm android and he was IOS...

Garmin has a **** ton of problems; some of which they need to own and DCRainMaker called them out on it.
1) Cyclic bugs... a bug finally gets fixed and a couple of builds later, it comes back
2) LOUSY comm***cation - they have a forum, but they never acknowledge posts or bugs. If they were to comm***cate better, I think a lot of frustration in the user comm***ty could be contained.
3) Too Many Products - part of their whole issue is they have fractured the market into such small pieces that they end up in non-stop development cycles on way too many products. They're building a giant pyramid of garbage instead of a tower of quality items. On top of that, each product seems to be a ***corn! (i.e. it is ***que and can't leverage any existing code base.)

As a lot of people posted on DCRMers site... once a different manufacturer supports the Radar protocol (and it is open source!), I'll be done with Garmin. The Varia rear radar is the only thing holding me to them (and I am on my 4th ***t in 2 years!).
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Old 06-19-19, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Beach Bob View Post
I had a Wahoo RFLKT... it was garbage; passed it on to a young rider without the resources to buy something; seemed to work OK for him; difference... I'm android and he was IOS...

Garmin has a **** ton of problems; some of which they need to own and DCRainMaker called them out on it.
1) Cyclic bugs... a bug finally gets fixed and a couple of builds later, it comes back
2) LOUSY comm***cation - they have a forum, but they never acknowledge posts or bugs. If they were to comm***cate better, I think a lot of frustration in the user comm***ty could be contained.
3) Too Many Products - part of their whole issue is they have fractured the market into such small pieces that they end up in non-stop development cycles on way too many products. They're building a giant pyramid of garbage instead of a tower of quality items. On top of that, each product seems to be a ***corn! (i.e. it is ***que and can't leverage any existing code base.)

As a lot of people posted on DCRMers site... once a different manufacturer supports the Radar protocol (and it is open source!), I'll be done with Garmin. The Varia rear radar is the only thing holding me to them (and I am on my 4th ***t in 2 years!).
WTF, Bikeforums???
Why the hell are you censoring the letters *** (u-n-i)???
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Old 06-19-19, 09:14 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
WTF, Bikeforums???
Why the hell are you censoring the letters *** (u-n-i)???
YUP... U*N*I* seems to be a cuss word according to Bikeforums.. wtf?
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Old 06-19-19, 09:20 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Beach Bob View Post
YUP... U*N*I* seems to be a cuss word according to Bikeforums.. wtf?
It's only a bug that shows up in a Garmin thread, naturally
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Old 06-19-19, 09:20 PM
  #73  
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***corn.
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Old 06-20-19, 10:05 AM
  #74  
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The censor has been fixed. Carry on.
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Old 06-20-19, 11:29 AM
  #75  
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I also had a 520 that worked 60 percent of the time all the time.
In all seriousness though it was probably more like 98 percent of the time. It died out of the blue in the middle of a ride after a year and a half of ownership and I bought a Wahoo ELEMNT Bolt and it’s hasn’t let me down once the past 4 months.
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