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1982 Trek 610 - Thoughts on Original Components

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1982 Trek 610 - Thoughts on Original Components

Old 06-17-19, 09:01 PM
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the_mahout
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1982 Trek 610 - Thoughts on Original Components

Greetings. I just picked up a close to mint condition 1982 Trek 610 from the original owner. Frame is 21" (my size) and red in color. I was able to verify the year and model on the Vintage Trek site. It is bone stock. It even had all of those huge reflectors, front, rear and mounted on both spoked wheels.

I am looking for some thoughts on the quality of the stock components. My experience with older Trek bikes only goes back to Shimano 600 equipped from the mid-1980s. The bike has Dia-compe non-aero brake levers and calipers. It has a 3x6 drive train and down tube shifters. Shifters are marked "Suntour". Front and rear derailleur appears to say "Cyclone" but is hard to read. Cranks are Sugino AT. Rims are 27 x 1-1/4" Rigida Made in France. Hubs say "Sunshine Gyromoste Japan", I think. I am assuming the stock components are decent and period correct for 1982. Thoughts?

Trek went to Shimano 600 on the Trek 610 Sport in 1984. Was the early eighties the end of Suntour components being installed on USA bikes?

Tires were incredibly dry rotted so I did not take it for a test ride. Sidewalls gave out under weight. I do have a 1986 steel frame Trek 560. Love the frame. I am hoping for something similar with the 610.

I have a new set of tires and tubes on order. I will be swapping the torn seat out with a Brooks Saddle and add new bar tape and hoods on the brake levers. Other than that my inclination is to leaving it mostly stock.

That said, I do prefer bar end shifter / barcons to the down tube shifters. I am assuming there is probably a Suntour barcons that would work with the current 3x9 drive train.

Thanks for any insights that you may have.

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Old 06-17-19, 09:05 PM
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Those are fine components. The sugino AT triple is a fine and sought after triple. The cyclone derailleurs were terrific derailleurs. The lettering on them didn't last. They are often paired with suntour barcons.

The dia compe brakes (likely 500g?) are more than adequate. I would change out the brake pads for kool stops.

The wheels are nicely spec'd as well. Gyromaster hubs are likely cartridge bearing, https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ster-hubs.html

Quality 27 inch tires are still available. I like the panaracer pasela protite tires:

https://www.modernbike.com/panaracer...teel-black-tan

You don't need to worry about overhauling them if they turn freely if they are cartridge bearing.

These were excellent touring components back in the day. I'd overhaul it, replace the consumables, and ride the heck out of it.

You might want to replace the 6 speed freewheel with a 7. You can replace--if you like--the bottom bracket with a shimano cartridge unit. You will want to replace the brake pads.

Last edited by bikemig; 06-17-19 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 06-17-19, 10:16 PM
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Mig, thanks for the informative reply.

I was intending to replace the brake pads. The original pads have no wear on them but the compound they are made of leaves a lot of black residue on the rims. I can't find a Kool-Stop replacement for the Dia-Compe on their website. Could you have a link?

Changing out the 6-speed cassette to a 7-speed - I am assuming the Suntour Cyclone RD will accept it, correct?
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Old 06-17-19, 10:42 PM
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With a Cyclone and a triple, it's actually a 614. It likely has the Ishiwata fork with the stamped crown, some have called the "death fork".

It's an '82; it won't have a cassette. Going to a 7-speed cassette will most likely entail cold-setting the rear triangle for the new hub.

Those 500Gs don't need anything special wrt. pads. I would think any of the Dura or Dura2 choices from Kool-Stop should work.

My first "nice" bike was a brand new '82 613, basically your 614 with conventional double chainrings and Blue Line der's. I took it 500 miles up the west coast of Ireland, along with a couple centuries and a few long tours in MI. It'll serve you well.
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Old 06-18-19, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Those are fine components. The sugino AT triple is a fine and sought after triple. The cyclone derailleurs were terrific derailleurs. The lettering on them didn't last. They are often paired with suntour barcons.

The dia compe brakes (likely 500g?) are more than adequate. I would change out the brake pads for kool stops.

The wheels are nicely spec'd as well. Gyromaster hubs are likely cartridge bearing, https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ster-hubs.html

Quality 27 inch tires are still available. I like the panaracer pasela protite tires:

https://www.modernbike.com/panaracer...teel-black-tan

You don't need to worry about overhauling them if they turn freely if they are cartridge bearing.

These were excellent touring components back in the day. I'd overhaul it, replace the consumables, and ride the heck out of it.

You might want to replace the 6 speed freewheel with a 7. You can replace--if you like--the bottom bracket with a shimano cartridge unit. You will want to replace the brake pads.
Aside from what Sheldon Brown states about the Sugino AT triple crank, what about it makes it so sought after?

I have a Shimano 600 6207 and Sugino AT crankset and they both function well. But I can't see why one is more sought after. especially since Sugino makes even bwtter cranksets offered by Rivendell
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Old 06-18-19, 04:32 AM
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I found a similar 83' Trek 600 earlier this year in similar condition. To save some money, I put Kool Stop Continental brake pads on and they do a great job stopping the bike (and I'm 250+ lbs, riding a 24" frame).

I upgraded the cockpit on my Trek with Nitto Noodle handlebars and a 90-degree Tange stem. But other than those changes, I kept mine stock in terms of shifting and braking and it's an awesome riding bike.

I put Panaracer Pasela 1 1/4" tires, which give a nice supple ride as well.

Nice find!
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Old 06-18-19, 04:34 AM
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Oh, and I also bought a pair of Cane Creek SCR-5 aero brake levers, which gave me a lot more stopping power than the stock Dia Compe levers. New brake levers would be a worthwhile upgrade if you're going to keep the rest of the drivetrain stock.
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Old 06-18-19, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeWonder View Post
Aside from what Sheldon Brown states about the Sugino AT triple crank, what about it makes it so sought after?

I have a Shimano 600 6207 and Sugino AT crankset and they both function well. But I can't see why one is more sought after. especially since Sugino makes even bwtter cranksets offered by Rivendell
People like the sugino AT crank which is why they are sought after. That's a truism but it is what it is and that is what the OP asked about.

I like the shimano 6207 as well.

The real difference between cranks is whether they are cold forged or not and how hard the chain rings are. I don't have the data on these cranks but I think they are both cold rather than melt forged.
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Old 06-18-19, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by the_mahout View Post
I was intending to replace the brake pads. The original pads have no wear on them but the compound they are made of leaves a lot of black residue on the rims. I can't find a Kool-Stop replacement for the Dia-Compe on their website. Could you have a link?

Changing out the 6-speed cassette to a 7-speed - I am assuming the Suntour Cyclone RD will accept it, correct?
RE brake pads: If you are trying to keep the original pad holders, it's possible one of the Kool Stop Weinmann replacement blocks would work. I think there's 3 or 4 sizes. You would need to pull out the old pads and measure them with a caliper. If that sounds too difficult, just replace them with the modern 'dura' pads/holders. Or use the Continental pads for a period correct look.

RE the "cassette": There is no cassette. They hadn't been invented yet. It is a freewheel. It threads onto the hub. Yes, you can swap it out for a 7 speed. Just buy a 7 speed freewheel and spin it on. They both use the same 126mm spacing in the rear triangle. No frame resetting is required. 7 speed can be a little tight WRT room for the chain when it's in the smallest cog. Sometimes you have to fudge it by adding a 1 mm washer to the hub.

I'm fairly certain the derailleurs will have plenty of travel to work with 7 speeds. You will need to readjust the limit screws obviously.
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Old 06-18-19, 07:49 AM
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PS those parts are all really nice quality. Way better IMO than Shimano 600 from that period.
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Old 06-18-19, 08:15 AM
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Why the double post?
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Old 06-18-19, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeWonder View Post
Aside from what Sheldon Brown states about the Sugino AT triple crank, what about it makes it so sought after?

I have a Shimano 600 6207 and Sugino AT crankset and they both function well. But I can't see why one is more sought after. especially since Sugino makes even bwtter cranksets offered by Rivendell
As Miguel said- the AT is a cold forged, 110/74 BCD, gracile and beautiful crank set- with the model stamped into the arms.

This crank was designed in the “aero” era (AT = “Aero Tour”) - as such, it has the sculpted arms and spider arms that “slice” thru the air all aero-y. This had the benefit of having Sugino’s engineers make it pleasing to look at. It also was one of the first, if not the first 110/74 triple crank sets- setting a standard. And since it was cold forged- it was among the strongest of cranks. There’s other cold forged Sugino cranks- these are just a beauty.

The 6207 crank is also very nice- I’d put money on it being cold forged as well- my understanding is Shimano bought up Takagi to get their forging technologies and equipment- but it does bear out that Sugino cranks went on the Top Of The Line tourers- and the 6207, regardless, went on the “lower” specced bikes. BTW- the 6207 is finished much nicer than any of the Takagi cranks I’ve had.

This would be a good question for @T-Mar. How long after the introduction of the Sugino AT did the Shimano 6207 come out?

IMO- the Sugino AT and their other triples based on the AT are nicer looking than any of the newer Sugino cranks- maybe it’s just the logo... I don’t know...
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Old 06-18-19, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Why the double post?
Because I forgot to address the OP's main question in the previous post. I guess I could have edited it instead. Does it matter, and why do you care?
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Old 06-18-19, 03:10 PM
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The Sugino AT and TAT (Triple Aero Tour) came out in 1981. The TAT's claim to fame was the introduction of the 74mm BCD allowing for a 24T granny gear. Prior to this, the smallest Sugino chainrings, without going to adapters, was 32T. However, the true brilliance was incorporating both bolt circles on the spider, allowing for a larger spider and less chainring deflection. Prior to this, triple cranksets mounted all three chairings to the same bolt circle or used the TA approach and bolted the middle and inner chainrings to the large chainring. These approaches compromised the granny gear size and/or chainring deflection.

Shimano released the FC-6207 New 600EX crankset in 1984. However, it's not really fair to compare it to a TAT, as it was a double crankset. Shimano's 6200 series triple was the FC-6206. It also used a 74mm BCD for the granny gear but was typically spec'd with a 28T, as Shimano was pushing their Biopace chainrings and this was the smallest Biopace chainring that a 74nn BCD would accommodate due to the ovoid shape. I can't recall seeing any specs as to construction but weight was comparable to the TAT, so I'm assuming it was also cold forged. So, the TAT had a smaller granny gear but the FC-6206 had Biopace.

Early 1980s Japanese grand touring bicycles were typically SunTour equipped due to several advantages. First, they shifted better, courtesy of the slant parallelogram rear derailleurs. While they shifted better at all gear ranges, it was more noticeable as the gear range got wider. Also, the SunTour wheels were more versatile If you wanted, you could get 38T. Shimano topped out at 34T. Finally, you could a 34T Ultra-6 from SunTour, so you could get an extra cog without giving up wheel strength, which is important on heavily loaded grand touring bicycles. Things would skew in Shimano's favour in 1986, when they brought out index compatible, wide range derailleurs with slant parallelograms. The mid-1980s seal failures on the SunTour Mountech rear derailleurs certainly didn't help.

Normally you'd think that with SunTour's supremacy, that Sugno cranksets would also hold the high ground in the grand touring world. However, this was not the case prior to the TAT. Many Japanese grand touring bicycles of the very late 1970s actually spec'd the SR Super Maxy Tour, simply because it could accommodate a 28T granny gear. Personally, I believe this was the real impetus behind the development of the Sugino TAT. They simply wanted to one up SR and gain market share by going 4T lower.
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Old 06-18-19, 08:11 PM
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Thanks for all of the great info. I think I will keep the Freewheel stock. It is a six gear Suntour Perfect. Wheels are both 36-spoke with Rigido rims. Based on all of the comments above the OEM stock components sound like a very solid set-up.

I will post some pictures once I reach my 10 post count.
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Old 06-18-19, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Sugino AT and TAT (Triple Aero Tour) came out in 1981. The TAT's claim to fame was the introduction of the 74mm BCD allowing for a 24T granny gear. Prior to this, the smallest Sugino chainrings, without going to adapters, was 32T. However, the true brilliance was incorporating both bolt circles on the spider, allowing for a larger spider and less chainring deflection. Prior to this, triple cranksets mounted all three chairings to the same bolt circle or used the TA approach and bolted the middle and inner chainrings to the large chainring. These approaches compromised the granny gear size and/or chainring deflection.

Shimano released the FC-6207 New 600EX crankset in 1984. However, it's not really fair to compare it to a TAT, as it was a double crankset. Shimano's 6200 series triple was the FC-6206. It also used a 74mm BCD for the granny gear but was typically spec'd with a 28T, as Shimano was pushing their Biopace chainrings and this was the smallest Biopace chainring that a 74nn BCD would accommodate due to the ovoid shape. I can't recall seeing any specs as to construction but weight was comparable to the TAT, so I'm assuming it was also cold forged. So, the TAT had a smaller granny gear but the FC-6206 had Biopace.

Early 1980s Japanese grand touring bicycles were typically SunTour equipped due to several advantages. First, they shifted better, courtesy of the slant parallelogram rear derailleurs. While they shifted better at all gear ranges, it was more noticeable as the gear range got wider. Also, the SunTour wheels were more versatile If you wanted, you could get 38T. Shimano topped out at 34T. Finally, you could a 34T Ultra-6 from SunTour, so you could get an extra cog without giving up wheel strength, which is important on heavily loaded grand touring bicycles. Things would skew in Shimano's favour in 1986, when they brought out index compatible, wide range derailleurs with slant parallelograms. The mid-1980s seal failures on the SunTour Mountech rear derailleurs certainly didn't help.

Normally you'd think that with SunTour's supremacy, that Sugno cranksets would also hold the high ground in the grand touring world. However, this was not the case prior to the TAT. Many Japanese grand touring bicycles of the very late 1970s actually spec'd the SR Super Maxy Tour, simply because it could accommodate a 28T granny gear. Personally, I believe this was the real impetus behind the development of the Sugino TAT. They simply wanted to one up SR and gain market share by going 4T lower.
This is why I love this forum. So much new information to learn. Thank you
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Old 06-19-19, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
RE the "cassette": There is no cassette. They hadn't been invented yet.
cassettes had been invented and in production by 1982.

however, the op does indeed have a freewheel hub, as he has now mentioned it has gyromaster hubs and suntour perfect frwweheel.
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Old 06-19-19, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
cassettes had been invented and in production by 1982.

however, the op does indeed have a freewheel hub, as he has now mentioned it has gyromaster hubs and suntour perfect frwweheel.
Yeah you are right. Wrong choice of words. The Dura Ace AX and 600AX came with cassettes about a year earlier. Those were very rare though at the time, in practice. I never even saw a 600ax group in real life. It was a couple years after 1982 when cassettes started showing up on 'mainstream' bikes, as best as I can recall. I don't remember any other early cassette hubs, but if someone does, please correct me.

Makes me wonder though. Shimano being Shimano, it wouldn't be surprising if there was some earlier precedent of the cassette invented decades earlier. T-Mar probably knows about it.
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Old 06-19-19, 08:36 AM
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Here's a 1978 Shimano catalog, showing "New Concept Components - Exciting Features".
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/...imano+1978.pdf

I have a set of NOS Shimano 600EX 5 speed cassette hubs with a March '79 date code (DC). 5 speed freehub was oe spec for my '81 Kellogg Ross Signature Touring.

I agree. T-Mar proably has evidence of cassettes going back to the beginning of time.

I'd like to see some pics of the op's bike.
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Old 06-19-19, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
Here's a 1978 Shimano catalog, showing "New Concept Components - Exciting Features".
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/...imano+1978.pdf

I have a set of NOS Shimano 600EX 5 speed cassette hubs with a March '79 date code (DC). 5 speed freehub was oe spec for my '81 Kellogg Ross Signature Touring.

I agree. T-Mar proably has evidence of cassettes going back to the beginning of time.

I'd like to see some pics of the op's bike.
Wow cool catalog. Blast from the past. Yep, I totally forgot they started to introduce cassettes in the latter half of the EX period. My 78 Masi was Dura Ace EX equipped from the factory (very unusual at the time), but still had a conventional freewheel rear hub. It's funny the things Shimano emphasizes as being advantages. They barely hint at the improved axle strength due to the bearing placement, which to my mind is the biggest advantage.

Let's see if we can elicit a response from @T-Mar by mentioning him again...

The only obvious precedent I can think of offhand was the Cyclo Pans freewheel set. It was splined and it was pretty easy to swap out your cogs before a race to whatever was required. I had one BITD and it was awesome. Definitely not a freehub though, it was a freewheel with splines.

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Old 06-19-19, 09:52 AM
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Where/when did the Takagi Tourney XT (GS?) crankset figure in to this (previous thread)?

I know that Shimano eventually absorbed Takagi, but it's not clear to me when their 110/74 BCD crankset was available. I have an 84-ish bike that came with the Tourney XT - its quite nice.


Pic from Velobase

Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Sugino AT and TAT (Triple Aero Tour) came out in 1981. The TAT's claim to fame was the introduction of the 74mm BCD allowing for a 24T granny gear. Prior to this, the smallest Sugino chainrings, without going to adapters, was 32T. However, the true brilliance was incorporating both bolt circles on the spider, allowing for a larger spider and less chainring deflection. Prior to this, triple cranksets mounted all three chairings to the same bolt circle or used the TA approach and bolted the middle and inner chainrings to the large chainring. These approaches compromised the granny gear size and/or chainring deflection.

Shimano released the FC-6207 New 600EX crankset in 1984. However, it's not really fair to compare it to a TAT, as it was a double crankset. Shimano's 6200 series triple was the FC-6206. It also used a 74mm BCD for the granny gear but was typically spec'd with a 28T, as Shimano was pushing their Biopace chainrings and this was the smallest Biopace chainring that a 74nn BCD would accommodate due to the ovoid shape. I can't recall seeing any specs as to construction but weight was comparable to the TAT, so I'm assuming it was also cold forged. So, the TAT had a smaller granny gear but the FC-6206 had Biopace.

Early 1980s Japanese grand touring bicycles were typically SunTour equipped due to several advantages. First, they shifted better, courtesy of the slant parallelogram rear derailleurs. While they shifted better at all gear ranges, it was more noticeable as the gear range got wider. Also, the SunTour wheels were more versatile If you wanted, you could get 38T. Shimano topped out at 34T. Finally, you could a 34T Ultra-6 from SunTour, so you could get an extra cog without giving up wheel strength, which is important on heavily loaded grand touring bicycles. Things would skew in Shimano's favour in 1986, when they brought out index compatible, wide range derailleurs with slant parallelograms. The mid-1980s seal failures on the SunTour Mountech rear derailleurs certainly didn't help.

Normally you'd think that with SunTour's supremacy, that Sugno cranksets would also hold the high ground in the grand touring world. However, this was not the case prior to the TAT. Many Japanese grand touring bicycles of the very late 1970s actually spec'd the SR Super Maxy Tour, simply because it could accommodate a 28T granny gear. Personally, I believe this was the real impetus behind the development of the Sugino TAT. They simply wanted to one up SR and gain market share by going 4T lower.
Wait, I thought Sugino made the Super Maxy crankset:

Last edited by CO_Hoya; 06-19-19 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Confusion
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Old 06-19-19, 09:54 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Let's see if we can elicit a response from T-Mar by mentioning him again...
Try "mentioning" him ( @ before his name).
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Old 06-19-19, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Try "mentioning" him ( @ before his name).
Done.
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Old 06-19-19, 01:22 PM
  #24  
T-Mar
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Yeah you are right. Wrong choice of words. The Dura Ace AX and 600AX came with cassettes about a year earlier. Those were very rare though at the time, in practice. I never even saw a 600ax group in real life. It was a couple years after 1982 when cassettes started showing up on 'mainstream' bikes, as best as I can recall. I don't remember any other early cassette hubs, but if someone does, please correct me.


Makes me wonder though. Shimano being Shimano, it wouldn't be surprising if there was some earlier precedent of the cassette invented decades earlier. T-Mar probably knows about it.

I went out and bought a Dura-Ace EX freehub as soon as they were released. I had suffered from bent axles to point where I installed Campagnolo Record track axles on my Record rear road hub. Shimnao's cassette freehub ended my woes.


SunTour had a failed attempt with a freehub (and indexed shifting) in 1969. SunTour called their product a Unit-Hub. However, it was preceded by Bayliss Wiley of England who had a Freewheel Unit Hub, as early as 1938. Reportedly, it was very popular with tourists and survived through the 1950s. There may have been even earlier cases but if so, I have yet to stumble across them.




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Old 06-19-19, 01:29 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by CO_Hoya View Post
Where/when did the Takagi Tourney XT (GS?) crankset figure in to this (previous thread)?


I know that Shimano eventually absorbed Takagi, but it's not clear to me when their 110/74 BCD crankset was available. I have an 84-ish bike that came with the Tourney XT - its quite nice.


Wait, I thought Sugino made the Super Maxy crankset:

My bad! Of course, you are correct. I meant to type SR Super Apex, not Super Maxy!


Regarding the Takagi XT, I believe it was released circa 1983 but I'll have to dig back though some of my literature to make sure.


Edit: Yes, it appears that the Takagi Tourney XT was introduced for the 1983 model year. It's shown on that year's Ross Hi-Tech ATB and the early 1983 Biopace advertisements all mention a 74mm inner BCD. An early 1983 Bicycling article on triple cranksets uses the AD as the Takagi representative, but I assume that was because the XT was in early production at the time and Berto couldn't get his hands on one. Of the 8 triple cranksets tested, only the Sugino TAT and Avocet Touring had a 74mm inner BCD.

Last edited by T-Mar; 06-19-19 at 02:38 PM.
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