Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

New to Racing? Here's a tip or two

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

New to Racing? Here's a tip or two

Old 04-15-15, 09:12 AM
  #276  
canuckbelle
Senior Member
 
canuckbelle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 944

Bikes: Scott Foil 10, Di2

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks I was in a racing line, but due to their braking into the corner, I tried not to touch my brakes (since this was my first bunch race, and everything I had read said *don't* touch your brakes in the final corner), so that took me out of that racing line and between the outer and middle lines slightly. That was clearly my mistake and I put myself in a risky situation (there's no denying that). What I'm learning here is that I could have saved myself by braking and getting back into the main line. The crash didn't actually happen in the corner: it happened right after the corner. I made it through the corner just fine (like I said: I'm fine with counter-steering and taking corners at speed).

But being in the risky spot that I was in, and that the guy to my left went wide and fell back a bit, he left a hole and I went for that hole as people were on the finishing straight gearing up for the sprint. But he hammered forward, didn't even look to his right, and took me out. So it wasn't a natural part of the turn per se (or maybe it was, what do I know?) when I went down. So it was an outside-in crash, not the usual inside-out crash.

But yeah: moral of the story: I need to get better at positioning myself in a major pace line for the final corner, staying in that line, and being willing to use my brakes to do so.

<3
canuckbelle is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 05:55 PM
  #277  
krumvis
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was thinking the exact same thing.
krumvis is offline  
Old 06-28-17, 05:59 PM
  #278  
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 3,683
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by krumvis View Post
I was thinking the exact same thing.
I've been on pins and needles for two years waiting to hear that.
asgelle is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 07:16 AM
  #279  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 902

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 409 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 51 Posts
I guess this belongs here. I went to a different hammer ride last night. Three of us (4/5's, 4/5's without a team) somehow made the "selection".

I've heard it over and over to ride with faster people to get better, that was the plan. I didn't feel it helpful to play backdoor for 1/2 the ride on the flats because us 4/5 lost a guy on the first hill "selection" and the much stronger two teams on the ride were controlling stuff with just the two of us left. Outnumbered, out gunned.

Didn't really feel I belonged. I could get up front with them and into it if the road went uphill for a bit. Not flats though.

Both of us were 4/5 guys who made a "big boy" selection. I didn't realize the A ride had a thing like that where those folks usually select ahead and the rest of A is just behind.

I got bored enough I half considered blowing up on purpose in the last 3 miles just to do something.

Suck it up and play backdoor OR eff it and drift back and hurt the 3/4/5 folks instead? I don't want to feel like I'm in the way of "their fun" by just being able to hang around. I'd probably do better or have more fun if there was a hill or two more as I'm skinny enough that'd be my chance to lead or do something. Just to be followed/reeled in 30 seconds.

Thoughts on the Cat 5 dragging on the coat-tails of the fast folks? I did NOT contest the sprint. I followed, but not having helped much if any just stayed put.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 03-22-19, 08:43 AM
  #280  
TMonk
Not actually Tmonk
 
TMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 11,084

Bikes: road, track, mtb

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 905 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 39 Posts
This is confusing. Is that a group ride or a race? You are neither new nor is that a race it seems like. I would post that in Training Status.
__________________
"Your beauty is an aeroplane;
so high, my heart cannot bear the strain." -A.C. Jobim, Triste
TMonk is offline  
Old 03-30-19, 07:19 PM
  #281  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 2,910

Bikes: Felt AR

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1691 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I guess this belongs here. I went to a different hammer ride last night. Three of us (4/5's, 4/5's without a team) somehow made the "selection".

I've heard it over and over to ride with faster people to get better, that was the plan. I didn't feel it helpful to play backdoor for 1/2 the ride on the flats because us 4/5 lost a guy on the first hill "selection" and the much stronger two teams on the ride were controlling stuff with just the two of us left. Outnumbered, out gunned.

Didn't really feel I belonged. I could get up front with them and into it if the road went uphill for a bit. Not flats though.

Both of us were 4/5 guys who made a "big boy" selection. I didn't realize the A ride had a thing like that where those folks usually select ahead and the rest of A is just behind.

I got bored enough I half considered blowing up on purpose in the last 3 miles just to do something.

Suck it up and play backdoor OR eff it and drift back and hurt the 3/4/5 folks instead? I don't want to feel like I'm in the way of "their fun" by just being able to hang around. I'd probably do better or have more fun if there was a hill or two more as I'm skinny enough that'd be my chance to lead or do something. Just to be followed/reeled in 30 seconds.

Thoughts on the Cat 5 dragging on the coat-tails of the fast folks? I did NOT contest the sprint. I followed, but not having helped much if any just stayed put.
I don't really get some of your made-up terms. "Backdoor"? "Select ahead"?

Training is not racing. Training rides are not races. If you just wanted to sit on the back of a group, you'd be better off doing a solo workout. Attack, get brought back, get stuck in, attack again. Do stuff you wouldn't want to do in a race because it probably wouldn't work. Because a training ride is not a race. It's a workout. Go do workout stuff. Sprint. Jump early, attack late, whatever. Get in an actual workout. The idea of being outnumbered or a team controlling things is a weird thing to read about, honestly. Again, training ride. Attack or drill it or something that will actually force you to do something new.

The only one that cares about you being a cat 5 is you. You got to move past that. Shouldn't have anything to do with anything if you're riding safely and predictably.
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 04-01-19, 12:59 PM
  #282  
Ygduf
\_(ツ)_/
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,976

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
I don't really get some of your made-up terms. "Backdoor"? "Select ahead"?

Training is not racing. Training rides are not races. If you just wanted to sit on the back of a group, you'd be better off doing a solo workout. Attack, get brought back, get stuck in, attack again. Do stuff you wouldn't want to do in a race because it probably wouldn't work. Because a training ride is not a race. It's a workout. Go do workout stuff. Sprint. Jump early, attack late, whatever. Get in an actual workout. The idea of being outnumbered or a team controlling things is a weird thing to read about, honestly. Again, training ride. Attack or drill it or something that will actually force you to do something new.

The only one that cares about you being a cat 5 is you. You got to move past that. Shouldn't have anything to do with anything if you're riding safely and predictably.
this is truth. I'm always losing group rides, but the secret is I dgaf. I'm looking for a workout, and whether I'm sitting in to try and sprint or trying to stick a move from 5 minutes out from a sprint point, I'm doing it with intent to get better at whichever I'm choosing.
Ygduf is offline  
Old 04-03-19, 11:21 AM
  #283  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 902

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 409 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 51 Posts
I got to the source of my frustration in the Training Status topic with my final post on this subject over there.

At the end of the day, any disappointments over a workout or training ride format or losing a group ride or whatever didn't matter. What mattered was that people weren't respecting people's safety. And that pissed me off.

I wrote a bunch of drivel complaining about team tactics or some BS because I couldn't really put a finger on what it actually was. It takes me a while to get there.

Everyone deserves to make it home. You lead the group into oncoming traffic twice, and lead the group up the wrong way up a road divider to cut a corner faster............then I ain't got anything for you. The same stuff happened a year prior at the same ride. It didn't matter that much that time as a year ago I had gotten dropped with the other 2/3 of the crowd and then the problems stopped. I never made it with those folks last year to the wrong-way turn deal.

I'm not OK riding with folks on a group ride that'll run you up wrong-way traffic to shave 5 seconds off a turn.

End of story.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 04-03-19, 11:47 AM
  #284  
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 38,042

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1824 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I got to the source of my frustration in the Training Status topic with my final post on this subject over there.

At the end of the day, any disappointments over a workout or training ride format or losing a group ride or whatever didn't matter. What mattered was that people weren't respecting people's safety. And that pissed me off.

I wrote a bunch of drivel complaining about team tactics or some BS because I couldn't really put a finger on what it actually was. It takes me a while to get there.

Everyone deserves to make it home. You lead the group into oncoming traffic twice, and lead the group up the wrong way up a road divider to cut a corner faster............then I ain't got anything for you. The same stuff happened a year prior at the same ride. It didn't matter that much that time as a year ago I had gotten dropped with the other 2/3 of the crowd and then the problems stopped. I never made it with those folks last year to the wrong-way turn deal.

I'm not OK riding with folks on a group ride that'll run you up wrong-way traffic to shave 5 seconds off a turn.

End of story.
That's a totally legitimate take and I am with you 100%. We have a local ride that bombs through a residential area during commute times and there are knuckleheads blowing through lights and divebombing blind corners. I did that ride once and never again.

(That said, it's really not a Training Status or New To Racing topic.)
caloso is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 03:08 AM
  #285  
HPL
HPL
 
HPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NORTH FLORIDA, NEW ENGLAND/MASS.
Posts: 180

Bikes: Presently riding: '97 FONDRIEST X STATUS, 85/86 BATAVUS Criterium; 69/70 RALEIGH Sports; others waiting their turn

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
I am new to racing!

I am so new to racing that I've not raced yet. I did "race" one time in what could be called a "criterium"; fairly informal, and unfortunately run by the military. 10 mile race of 2 laps, in 3rd place and catching the team pair ahead of me......and then out of nowhere, a garbage or dump truck, a big yellow thing anyways wiped me off the road into sugar sand; history. I always thought traffic was stopped, detoured, or was made to use a dedicated lane only during a road race; I learned the hard way after being tossed into an ambulance that day; figured if this happens in racing I may as well stick to the roads with traffic I AM EXPECTING. That was over 30 years ago, now I just want to turn and burn and see what I've got. At present I have nothing; I can't even maintain 20 mph for a half hour, but I can ride 20 miles plus averaging about 17 mph. I do not use low gears very often, not a spinner. I remember my average speed as being around 23 mph for one to two hour rides and I could sprint up to about 35 mph. My last "organized" (not a race, but everyone approached it that way except myself) ride was in November. I road a 69 Raleigh Sports 3spd for laughs , but found that I was keeping with the pack on my 50 lb. behemoth (we had a couple tandems riding also) while others (I'll call them "kids", no offense to the younger generations) were riding all the new fangled stuff as well as fixies (which I hate, sorry). I had no problem riding the bike for about 25 miles that day finishing with the main pack. I don't have anyone to ride with so that's out; can't use my work commute for training because I live 40 miles away and work at midnight and although I've done the ride before, the semi-truck traffic at night is rather dangerous, and after about a 2.5 hour ride and 9 hours on the feet working my body is not quite happy about return trip and it doesn't leave me much time at home. my normal rides are 20-25 miles and I don't do well in the Florida sun. Went out last Friday at noon and after one and a half hours I returned home drained from the 100 degree temp. My only quality ride time is early (cooler but extremely humid) or early eves/nights which aren't that much cooler until late (my sleep time with my present hours).
Anyways, 55 years old, 5'7" at 140 lbs, so not in too bad shape except for the cycling side of the issue. I would like to try, but I have no confidence riding close quarters around others; I like my space! Should I try at all, ride the tail and be happy I'm trying to compete, or just stay out of everyone's way and ride the trails in solitude? I don't like experiencing any sport/activity from the couch, but I don't want to ruin others experiences with my ineptitude.
I tried MTB and crashed 6 times in 3 miles so that is not an option I still have to work!), cyclocross means a new bike (can I convert an old road to cross? wrong geometry?).
It also appears that I'll need a new vocabulary.
I would be using an older steel bike 70's-80's as equipment. Does this automatically make me look like an idiot with all the new stuff out there? DT friction shifting is fine by me and so is a 6 speed; riding an 8,9,10,11 speed is just wasting sprockets on me unless I'm in the mountains, but no, Florida "flatlands" primarily.
I would not be embarrassed by finishing last, only if not finishing at all; I expect that there are 80 year olds who would blow me away so I'm being realistic.

I can handle the truth; no sugar coating!

Last edited by HPL; 05-29-19 at 07:27 AM.
HPL is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 09:59 AM
  #286  
furiousferret 
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 5,827
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 634 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 27 Posts
You can absolutely try to race, but based on the information you've provided, it is going to be a very rough go at it. As for the older equipment, you'll get a few odd looks but for the most part no one will care.

If you want to test yourself prior to the race, find the fastest group ride out there; I suspect the one you did probably isn't that fast (the tandems give it away). You'll definitely also want to get acclimated to riding in close quarters; for your own safety. Bike racing isn't like other sports, even the entry level of the sport is stupidly fast compared to the average recreational cyclist.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 11:33 AM
  #287  
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 38,042

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1824 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 93 Posts
Hi, and welcome. A couple thoughts:

Unless you want to limit yourself to time trials, you're going to have to get comfortable and proficient riding in a group. As FF said, find the local fast group ride, and do that ride. You can start at the back, and as you get used to finding the draft, you can move up.

An 80s steel frame bike isn't going to hold you back, especially in Florida. But DT shifters will put you at a disadvantage. It's not disqualifying, but it's an extra level of complication.

You absolutely can use your commute as training. I have for years.

Re cyclocross: Actually a 70-80s road bike can be adapted to CX. I did my first season of cross on a Trek 660 with a set of knobby tires. It worked great in dry September, but by October it got bogged down in the mud.
caloso is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 12:46 PM
  #288  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 902

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 409 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 51 Posts
Agreed with the above folks.

Sounds to me you should start with the B group ride. Every week. If you find it slow, focus on group riding skills and being super smooth. When not riding in the group, get used to doing intervals that make you want to cry, chew your bar tape, cuss, and maybe vomit.

After a good while, move up to A group. Keep at the training.

After a good while, move into the "race sim" group ride once in a while. Get dropped, try again. Get dropped, try again. Finally hang on. Eventually toss in a few pulls, then someday maybe even an attack.

Race....

None of that but the training and solo riding is necessary for TT if you want to try that. Cross can be as bumpy and jarring as MTB is depending on the course.

IMHO, the basic entry level of fitness in beginner racing has jumped a bit in the recent years of Zwift and "structured training for the unwashed masses" kind of programs.

But, it can be fun and rewarding. Just keep your wits about you and have small incremental goals (one of my biggest problems).
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 05-29-19, 12:54 PM
  #289  
Hermes
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,357

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 568 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 48 Posts
Welcome to the forum and racing.

Criterium racing is not very welcoming to new entrants and may be even more for older master racers. More than likely, you will get dropped quickly from the pack and then pulled by the officials. Your trip to the race will seem not worth it and entry fee for two laps of racing overpriced. Getting pulled is for your safety and others but it is up to the officials and will vary from race to race. If you are okay with that...welcome to mass start criterium racing and let the journey begin.

Down tube shifters are perfectly serviceable but not as safe as modern brifters. We teach new racers to ride in the drops and keep your hands on the bars to protect from hooking another rider or being hooked. You will have to reach down and shift with one hand. That is not terrible per se but not as safe as keeping your hands on the bars. Plus you are a new racer such that keeping the hands on the bars is even more important. But down tube shifters are perfectly fine.

I do not think bike racing is any different from competing at a tennis or golf tournament. Casual golf or tennis is completely different from tournament play. Bike racing is tournament play. These guys are going to be very good and significantly surpass recreational cyclists in speed and execution skills - just like golf and tennis or any other sport.

To consider mass start racing, IMO, one must develop pack riding skills before the first race and even take a bike racing skills course.

IMO, considering your statement about riding in close quarters, I would suggest that you start with time trials and ride your current bike in a Merckx category. This way you are on the course by yourself, you will get to finish and you do not have to change a thing with your setup. In fact, others will think your older bike is very cool for a Merckx time trial. Time trials are hard but you will get the idea of racing your bike in a safer environment with less skills required. Racing develops fitness and you can work on your pack skills in group rides and when you are ready, start mass start racing. Good luck.

Last edited by Hermes; 05-29-19 at 01:07 PM.
Hermes is offline  
Old 06-14-19, 03:22 AM
  #290  
HPL
HPL
 
HPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NORTH FLORIDA, NEW ENGLAND/MASS.
Posts: 180

Bikes: Presently riding: '97 FONDRIEST X STATUS, 85/86 BATAVUS Criterium; 69/70 RALEIGH Sports; others waiting their turn

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
New to Racing

Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Welcome to the forum and racing.

Criterium racing is not very welcoming to new entrants and may be even more for older master racers. More than likely, you will get dropped quickly from the pack and then pulled by the officials. Your trip to the race will seem not worth it and entry fee for two laps of racing overpriced. Getting pulled is for your safety and others but it is up to the officials and will vary from race to race. If you are okay with that...welcome to mass start criterium racing and let the journey begin.

Down tube shifters are perfectly serviceable but not as safe as modern brifters. We teach new racers to ride in the drops and keep your hands on the bars to protect from hooking another rider or being hooked. You will have to reach down and shift with one hand. That is not terrible per se but not as safe as keeping your hands on the bars. Plus you are a new racer such that keeping the hands on the bars is even more important. But down tube shifters are perfectly fine.

I do not think bike racing is any different from competing at a tennis or golf tournament. Casual golf or tennis is completely different from tournament play. Bike racing is tournament play. These guys are going to be very good and significantly surpass recreational cyclists in speed and execution skills - just like golf and tennis or any other sport.

To consider mass start racing, IMO, one must develop pack riding skills before the first race and even take a bike racing skills course.

IMO, considering your statement about riding in close quarters, I would suggest that you start with time trials and ride your current bike in a Merckx category. This way you are on the course by yourself, you will get to finish and you do not have to change a thing with your setup. In fact, others will think your older bike is very cool for a Merckx time trial. Time trials are hard but you will get the idea of racing your bike in a safer environment with less skills required. Racing develops fitness and you can work on your pack skills in group rides and when you are ready, start mass start racing. Good luck.
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Agreed with the above folks.

Sounds to me you should start with the B group ride. Every week. If you find it slow, focus on group riding skills and being super smooth. When not riding in the group, get used to doing intervals that make you want to cry, chew your bar tape, cuss, and maybe vomit.

After a good while, move up to A group. Keep at the training.

After a good while, move into the "race sim" group ride once in a while. Get dropped, try again. Get dropped, try again. Finally hang on. Eventually toss in a few pulls, then someday maybe even an attack.

Race....

None of that but the training and solo riding is necessary for TT if you want to try that. Cross can be as bumpy and jarring as MTB is depending on the course.

IMHO, the basic entry level of fitness in beginner racing has jumped a bit in the recent years of Zwift and "structured training for the unwashed masses" kind of programs.

But, it can be fun and rewarding. Just keep your wits about you and have small incremental goals (one of my biggest problems).
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Hi, and welcome. A couple thoughts:

Unless you want to limit yourself to time trials, you're going to have to get comfortable and proficient riding in a group. As FF said, find the local fast group ride, and do that ride. You can start at the back, and as you get used to finding the draft, you can move up.

An 80s steel frame bike isn't going to hold you back, especially in Florida. But DT shifters will put you at a disadvantage. It's not disqualifying, but it's an extra level of complication.

You absolutely can use your commute as training. I have for years.

Re cyclocross: Actually a 70-80s road bike can be adapted to CX. I did my first season of cross on a Trek 660 with a set of knobby tires. It worked great in dry September, but by October it got bogged down in the mud.
Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
You can absolutely try to race, but based on the information you've provided, it is going to be a very rough go at it. As for the older equipment, you'll get a few odd looks but for the most part no one will care.

If you want to test yourself prior to the race, find the fastest group ride out there; I suspect the one you did probably isn't that fast (the tandems give it away). You'll definitely also want to get acclimated to riding in close quarters; for your own safety. Bike racing isn't like other sports, even the entry level of the sport is stupidly fast compared to the average recreational cyclist.
Thanks to all for the straight forward and insightful comments. I am not discouraged! I agree that TT would be most suitable for initial racing indoctrination. It seems I do a training that probably would fit the needs, just need to up the mileage and frequency. Presently, due to heat concerns and work, I'm only doing 10-12 miles (approx 2 is "cross" riding out of the saddle) about every other day; including interval sprints on the city roads Longer slower miles on the weekend. My goal is to be averaging a minimum of 20mph for at least one hour; right now at 17-18. I can barely do the 20mph average for 8 miles so I know where I need to improve. Strength since stamina isn't horrible considering the aches and pains. Hope to be at my goal by the new year barring any injuries.
Planning on using the Moser Leader in photo once completed. Drop bars recommended over Bulls for TT?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_20190416_104026.jpg (608.3 KB, 37 views)
HPL is offline  
Old 06-14-19, 08:16 AM
  #291  
Hermes
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,357

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 568 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 48 Posts
@HPL What is important for optimizing speed in time trials is body position. The height of the bullhorns on your bike i.e. the seat to bar drop will not allow you to get your shoulders low enough and your head out of the wind. You could lower the bars down as much as possible and then bend your elbows on the bike to lower the torso.

Even if you change the bars to drop bars, your position will be too high. If that is as low as you can go, so be it. Time trials are more about making every pedal stroke count and you can do that from any body position.

IMO, the bullhorns are not acceptable for group rides and mass start racing. When I was a supervisor at the velodrome, we would not allow mustache or bullhorn handlebars on the track and of course, many fixed gear riders like mustache handle bars. You need to change them to standard drop bars. The reason is that in close quarter racing, you can get tangled with other riders with bull horns. With drop bars, one rides in the drops which is a safer position and allows one to bump other riders or get bumped without mishap.
Hermes is offline  
Old 06-14-19, 09:42 AM
  #292  
corkyflad
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry in advance if this question has been asked, as my search abilities are lacking. If you missed the deadline to online register for a race, is cash usually the only acceptable form of payment the day of a race?
corkyflad is offline  
Old 06-14-19, 10:29 AM
  #293  
caloso
Packfodding 3
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 38,042

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1824 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by corkyflad View Post
Sorry in advance if this question has been asked, as my search abilities are lacking. If you missed the deadline to online register for a race, is cash usually the only acceptable form of payment the day of a race?
Good question.

We have been using a Square the last couple of years to accept credit cards. More and more races are, but it's not universal and if you're doing a road race out in BFE there may not be reliable cell coverage. Every race I've done has always accepted checks (this might be one of the last few things I actually write a check for anymore). And of course, cash is always king.
caloso is offline  
Old 06-16-19, 07:43 AM
  #294  
HPL
HPL
 
HPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NORTH FLORIDA, NEW ENGLAND/MASS.
Posts: 180

Bikes: Presently riding: '97 FONDRIEST X STATUS, 85/86 BATAVUS Criterium; 69/70 RALEIGH Sports; others waiting their turn

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Bar type?

Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
@HPLEven if you change the bars to drop bars, your position will be too high. If that is as low as you can go, so be it. Time trials are more about making every pedal stroke count and you can do that from any body position.

IMO, the bullhorns are not acceptable for group rides and mass start racing. When I was a supervisor at the velodrome, we would not allow mustache or bullhorn handlebars on the track and of course, many fixed gear riders like mustache handle bars. You need to change them to standard drop bars. The reason is that in close quarter racing, you can get tangled with other riders with bull horns. With drop bars, one rides in the drops which is a safer position and allows one to bump other riders or get bumped without mishap.
Thanks Hermes,
I fully agree with your comments, I've actually never really rode with bullhorn bars, always drop; excepting building up a frame for a friend and testing it. I had it sitting around and wanted to see how it rode with bar end shifters. Are "barcons" a decent "old school" option in place of "brifters"?
If I install drop bars and my "position will still be too high"; what's left? Extend the stem reach, use a smaller front wheel or get a "funny" bike? Of course no matter what I ride I need to be in the proper condition as well as being able sustain performance in a particular position. I have tried "aero" bars, but not for any period of time and on a very ill fitting frame, thus sore body; so no reference from which to base a proper opinion on. I have smaller frames (49-50 cm) where I could have a higher seat position in reference to the bar, or use an extended post on my standard size frames (52-54 cm).
HPL is offline  
Old 06-16-19, 08:18 AM
  #295  
Hermes
Version 3.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 11,357

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 568 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 48 Posts
@HPL I am not an old school guy with that knowledge. I had bikes from the era but I train and race on modern stuff and I have a road, track, time trial and sprint bikes set up specifically for events. But that is me.

With respect to racing and getting started in time trials, it is always a good idea to race what you have. You may love racing / time trials or not. The general rule for racing time trials is that results are 80% legs, lungs and heart, 10% brain and 5% equipment. Body position dominates aerodynamics and head position is the most important aspect of body position once the hip angle is set. As a new racer, you really do not have to worry about any of that other than do not get hung up on equipment since it is a minor component of results. Equipment can be a fun part of time trials and one wants to optimize speed and equipment matters when the time spreads begin to collapse between competitors. I can generate a lot of speed out of not a lot of power and that is due to technical considerations and mental focus not physiology.

I would suggest inserting the stem post farther into the head tube if that is possible. There may be old school stems available that do not rise as high as yours. And I would get the old school drop bars that have a larger radius. The larger radius bars will lower the drop portion of the bar and give you a lower body position.

More than likely, your saddle is too low. Why would I suspect that? Most racers saddle height is set for road riding and spinning. A TT setup, the leg is extended more and the rider tends to shift / rotate forward. In the old school vernacular this is riding on the rivet that gets its name from the rivets that were in the old leather saddles.

Here is a picture of the man himself Merckx. You can see, he gets pretty low but he is also bending his elbows. That is a fast position but hard to hold for long periods of time.



I cannot speak to bar end shifters. I hate all that old school stuff and prefer that modern shifting. I have electronic shifting and it is safer and faster since shifting buttons can be installed for different hand positions and allow riders to keep their hands on the bars at all times. This is more important in mass start racing such as crits. Good luck. Maybe others have some ideas for your setup and shifting.
Hermes is offline  
Old 06-16-19, 08:37 AM
  #296  
HPL
HPL
 
HPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NORTH FLORIDA, NEW ENGLAND/MASS.
Posts: 180

Bikes: Presently riding: '97 FONDRIEST X STATUS, 85/86 BATAVUS Criterium; 69/70 RALEIGH Sports; others waiting their turn

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
@HPL I am not an old school guy with that knowledge. I had bikes from the era but I train and race on modern stuff and I have a road, track, time trial and sprint bikes set up specifically for events. But that is me.

With respect to racing and getting started in time trials, it is always a good idea to race what you have. You may love racing / time trials or not. The general rule for racing time trials is that results are 80% legs, lungs and heart, 10% brain and 5% equipment. Body position dominates aerodynamics and head position is the most important aspect of body position once the hip angle is set. As a new racer, you really do not have to worry about any of that other than do not get hung up on equipment since it is a minor component of results. Equipment can be a fun part of time trials and one wants to optimize speed and equipment matters when the time spreads begin to collapse between competitors. I can generate a lot of speed out of not a lot of power and that is due to technical considerations and mental focus not physiology.

I would suggest inserting the stem post farther into the head tube if that is possible. There may be old school stems available that do not rise as high as yours. And I would get the old school drop bars that have a larger radius. The larger radius bars will lower the drop portion of the bar and give you a lower body position.

More than likely, your saddle is too low. Why would I suspect that? Most racers saddle height is set for road riding and spinning. A TT setup, the leg is extended more and the rider tends to shift / rotate forward. In the old school vernacular this is riding on the rivet that gets its name from the rivets that were in the old leather saddles.

Here is a picture of the man himself Merckx. You can see, he gets pretty low but he is also bending his elbows. That is a fast position but hard to hold for long periods of time.



I cannot speak to bar end shifters. I hate all that old school stuff and prefer that modern shifting. I have electronic shifting and it is safer and faster since shifting buttons can be installed for different hand positions and allow riders to keep their hands on the bars at all times. This is more important in mass start racing such as crits. Good luck. Maybe others have some ideas for your setup and shifting.
Thanks again Hermes,
I do have some newer components, and I did recently pick up a carbon frame set, but I've not done any building on it; more purchased as an oddity than a daily rider. Thank you for your time.
HPL is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
tburn
Classic & Vintage
14
05-28-12 06:34 PM
eeeskwa
Bicycle Mechanics
28
07-27-09 01:28 PM
MitchellH
Road Cycling
0
05-07-09 05:53 PM
DRLski
Road Cycling
11
10-10-06 06:54 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.