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Old 10-15-17, 02:28 PM
  #26  
carleton
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Originally Posted by bartek. View Post
Hmm I think it's flat here and works well.
Those are not Scattos. Those are road bars tilted upwards.
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Old 10-15-17, 02:37 PM
  #27  
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Here's how you make them:

Step 1: Buy road bars.
Step 2: Loosen stem.
Step 3: Rotate 20 degrees
Step 4: (optional) Tighten stem.

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Old 10-15-17, 02:46 PM
  #28  
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Thanks!

I'm wondering if Scattos are popular for endurance then. I know the compact roadbars are common in use, what do you think about Scatto? I know this position is mainly use only for breakaway...
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Old 10-15-17, 02:53 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bartek. View Post
Thanks!

I'm wondering if Scattos are popular for endurance then. I know the compact roadbars are common in use, what do you think about Scatto? I know this position is mainly use only for breakaway...
Yes, Scattos are popular for endurance. Maybe because they are narrow. Only a small % of enduros use the "sphinx" position. It's the exception, not the rule. Most simply stay in the drops as usual.

Also, I *think* the sphinx position is technically illegal as the rider's hands should always be in the drops for safety reasons. I'm probably wrong, but I think that's a rule.

I know the UCI issued a rule that effectively outlawed the 3T Sphinx bars by noting that the hand position on the tops could not exceed 5mm over the front axle. So, then riders had to use really short stems and the advantage of the Sphinx bars was gone.

If you are trying to find equipment, I suggest very narrow road bars (child size) or 3T Scatto. Understand that you will not find the perfect bar the first time. It's a journey. You will try several before you find the one that you and your body like.
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Old 10-15-17, 08:49 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Also, I *think* the sphinx position is technically illegal as the rider's hands should always be in the drops for safety reasons. I'm probably wrong, but I think that's a rule.
UCI rule 3.2.002 is

In addition, while riding on the track, riders have at all times be in firm control of the bicycle and have at least one hand on the handlebar (or extension).

(text modified on 30.09.10)
The mod was added after Alex Rasmussen won the elite Scratch WC in 2010 using the faux aerobar position.

Also madison exchanges are done with one rider grasping the top of the bars near the stem.
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Old 10-15-17, 10:54 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by gl98115 View Post
UCI rule 3.2.002 is



The mod was added after Alex Rasmussen won the elite Scratch WC in 2010 using the faux aerobar position.

Also madison exchanges are done with one rider grasping the top of the bars near the stem.
Thanks.

Is the faux aerobar position where the rider simply rests his forearms on the bare bars? That's terribly unsafe. Maybe not at the elite level, but you know someone at the local level will try it
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Old 10-16-17, 06:09 PM
  #32  
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The faux aerobar position where you just have the forearms on the bars is illegal. I recently became a commissaire and we were informed in our training that if we saw it anywhere it was to be punished. They are trying to get rid of it from the sport due to the unsafe nature.

The sphinx position is not technically illegal as your hands are still in contact with the bars
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Old 10-16-17, 08:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
The faux aerobar position where you just have the forearms on the bars is illegal. I recently became a commissaire and we were informed in our training that if we saw it anywhere it was to be punished. They are trying to get rid of it from the sport due to the unsafe nature.

The sphinx position is not technically illegal as your hands are still in contact with the bars
Oh yeah, I forgot about that position. I haven't noticed it in a long time. I can totally see riders mimicking that...even if it's just to look fast. I'm sure it's hard to maneuver the bike from that position or get back to the drops quickly.
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Old 10-16-17, 08:58 PM
  #34  
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I used to ride that position before it was cool

It's actually a pretty aero position and there's a big difference between that and just sitting in the drops. No problems with control either. Once I moved to sprint style bars i wasn't able to do it any more.
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Old 10-17-17, 06:52 AM
  #35  
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i love the spinx position. i did some rough testing and it's more aero than the drops. solo stability is just fine (for me). I use it when I'm solo and stable: after accelerating to bridge a gap at very high speed, or when settling into doing work at the front.

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Old 10-17-17, 06:58 AM
  #36  
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I learned about it as the Llaneras position, before Cam Meyer adopted it and 3T made that Sphinx bar for him. As far as I know, Joan Llaneras pioneered or popularized it. Anybody know more history of the position?

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Old 10-17-17, 07:50 AM
  #37  
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yeah, the sphinx position is pretty cool. I use it a lot in front of group or solo chasing/breakaway. i definitely go a way faster than in drops.
handling is not an issue too, a way easier than the faux aero that was not a problem either.

as the sphinx is still legal, anyone tried it on Scatto? it looks like less comfortable but possible, but never tried on scatto before so i can be wrong
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Old 10-17-17, 08:11 AM
  #38  
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i've tried putting my arms there on the scatto, but i haven't used them in a race.

you can't sphinx on them. i mean... i guess you could - but it'll suck.

they curve forward from the bar and don't offer you the forward-pointing area that a road bar offers you, which is what you really want to be leaning on and holding in the sphinx position.



and, they curve downward, too, when you really want to look for a flattish section to lean and hold.



that's two big strikes against them for sphinx use. it's not what they're made for. they're optimized for something else entirely. if you're looking for an enduro bar that you can sphinx on, pick a different handlebar.
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Old 10-19-17, 10:19 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
i've tried putting my arms there on the scatto, but i haven't used them in a race.

you can't sphinx on them. i mean... i guess you could - but it'll suck.

they curve forward from the bar and don't offer you the forward-pointing area that a road bar offers you, which is what you really want to be leaning on and holding in the sphinx position.



and, they curve downward, too, when you really want to look for a flattish section to lean and hold.



that's two big strikes against them for sphinx use. it's not what they're made for. they're optimized for something else entirely. if you're looking for an enduro bar that you can sphinx on, pick a different handlebar.
What do you think these bulbs are for?
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Old 10-19-17, 12:03 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
What do you think these bulbs are for?
That's an interresting mod. I'm sure it won't matter at the local level, but would that be allowed in a UCI event like Masters/Elite Nationals or an international UCI event?
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Old 10-19-17, 12:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
That's an interresting mod. I'm sure it won't matter at the local level, but would that be allowed in a UCI event like Masters/Elite Nationals or an international UCI event?
They didn't say anything at Masters Nationals. But things were pretty loose there.
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Old 10-19-17, 12:42 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
That's an interresting mod. I'm sure it won't matter at the local level, but would that be allowed in a UCI event like Masters/Elite Nationals or an international UCI event?
i know people who have raced homemade 'madison bars' at those events - no issue.
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Old 10-20-17, 05:20 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
That's an interresting mod. I'm sure it won't matter at the local level, but would that be allowed in a UCI event like Masters/Elite Nationals or an international UCI event?
I don't think a wacky handlebar tape job would infrige UCI equipment rules unless this affect the well functioning of the bike.
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Old 10-23-17, 05:48 AM
  #44  
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Tape is illegal IMHO.

From the Article 1.3.002:
A licence holder is not authorised to modify, in any way, the equipment given by the manufacturer used in competition.
However the explanation says about 3:1 rule but I think it still affects any tape on bar..
Modifying equipment used in competition in relation to products supplied by the manufacturer is prohibited for obvious safety reasons. Whether it is a matter of modifying the length of the saddle, adapting approved wheels, filing off fork drop-out safety lugs, meeting the 3:1 rule by adding tape to handlebars or adding a nonslip system on the saddle, no modification of equipment that is not conducted by the manufacturer is authorised by the UCI without prior approval.
EDIT: Then I found this:
The addition of handlebar tape to improve the rider's grip is authorised, but tape must be identifiable and only used where the rider's hands grip the handlebars.
So, I am confused
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Old 10-23-17, 06:18 AM
  #45  
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handlebar tape is not illegal.

that rule says that you can't add tape so that a handlebar meets the 3:1 rule. which is to say, if an untaped handlebar doesn't meet 3:1, but a taped handlebar does meet it - it doesn't pass.

confusion is ordinary, since the rules are often written to be strange, broad, curiously translated, and often in ways that conflict. basically the rules try to provide a template by which commissaires make reasonable decisions. no commissaire will prevent you from using a bike because you have taped your handlebars.
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Old 10-23-17, 07:54 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
handlebar tape is not illegal.

that rule says that you can't add tape so that a handlebar meets the 3:1 rule. which is to say, if an untaped handlebar doesn't meet 3:1, but a taped handlebar does meet it - it doesn't pass.

confusion is ordinary, since the rules are often written to be strange, broad, curiously translated, and often in ways that conflict. basically the rules try to provide a template by which commissaires make reasonable decisions. no commissaire will prevent you from using a bike because you have taped your handlebars.
The other side of that coin is: When in doubt, don't do it or at least ask a commissionaire before the race begins (and give yourself time to change bars/tape if necessary). I've seen people denied clearance to ride at Masters Nationals bike check due to a geometry issue and the guy didn't have any replacement gear. This was 15 minutes before his event. Not sure if he got to ride or not. I've heard of people protesting the win of someone else because someone rode a helmet that wasn't CPSC legal. I think, technically, all CASCO Warp III helmets are illegal for local (non-UCI) USA cycling events

As QP notes, most times you won't be hassled by it. But, if it's technically illegal based on the rules under which we ride, then it's unsportsmanlike at best and a cheating at worse.

Imagine losing a close one to a person who modded the bars like that and it was later considered illegal.

tl;dr: Ask the person in charge of the race.
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Old 10-23-17, 04:18 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by bartek. View Post
Modifying equipment used in competition in relation to products supplied by the manufacturer is prohibited for obvious safety reasons. Whether it is a matter of modifying the length of the saddle, adapting approved wheels, filing off fork drop-out safety lugs, meeting the 3:1 rule by adding tape to handlebars or adding a nonslip system on the saddle, no modification of equipment that is not conducted by the manufacturer is authorised by the UCI without prior approval.
IMO this does not apply as I believe it refers to modifying a non compliant bar to become compliant with tape. In the case above the bar is already compliant.

Originally Posted by bartek. View Post
The addition of handlebar tape to improve the rider's grip is authorised, but tape must be identifiable and only used where the rider's hands grip the handlebars.
For me, this makes the mod non compliant. But like all UCI clauses, it is down to interpretation and the ONLY answer you will get that matters will come from the commissaires running the particular event. In my experience commissaires can come up with some fairly wild interpretations of rules. Only the weekend before last a comm wanted to have a look at my bike accusing me of running small wheels. Yes my 63cm TT frame makes 700C wheels look like 650s, but 650s are still compliant anyway!
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Old 10-23-17, 04:28 PM
  #48  
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Interesting. So are you saying that the "hoods" aren't areas we normally grip on the track? Not arguing against it, but I also usually tape the tops on one side of my bars for Madisons. I totally get the aversion to weird positions like the "sphinx". It looks terrible and weird. Personally, I think disc brakes on road bikes look terrible, and I would never ride discs on the road unless that's the only thing we can get.
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Old 10-23-17, 04:58 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
Personally, I think disc brakes on road bikes look terrible, and I would never ride discs on the road unless that's the only thing we can get.

According discs and some weird UCI regulations:

"...the valve access hole of disc wheels that may be covered provided that the cover used is supplied by the wheel manufacturer (and no other party)."
It's ridiculous
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Old 10-23-17, 05:01 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by tobukog View Post
Interesting. So are you saying that the "hoods" aren't areas we normally grip on the track? Not arguing against it, but I also usually tape the tops on one side of my bars for Madisons. I totally get the aversion to weird positions like the "sphinx". It looks terrible and weird. Personally, I think disc brakes on road bikes look terrible, and I would never ride discs on the road unless that's the only thing we can get.
Like I said, it comes down to Commissaire interpretation. I'm a newly crowned Comm, so I don't have the level of experience to know when to relax and let things go just yet.

I've owned 3T bars before and currently run BT bars so I'm quite familiar with how they ride and feel. That style of taping to me does not equate to a regular taped hand area. Maybe I would reserve my decision until I saw the rider out on the track and see just how they utilise the taped area. If we're talking madison racing and I would be puzzled as to why use the 3Ts, but it could be legit but if that were the purpose, I'd think more tape along the top of the bar or just one side would be the reality.
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