Rollfast

You know that war wagons were not the real reason Ike authorized the interstates.

And you realize that this gets more absurd by the week? So you can't get off at some roadside bar and dance.

FiftySix

Us Texans are just *itchin' for a variety of reasons. I got more rational in post #298 .

The interesting thing is it seems that many posters in this thread would be more open to high speed rail than Texans, yet the areas they live in don't seem to have a plan moving forward?

Lemond1985

I bet half of those thousand cars are people driving their kids to school, when the kids could easily walk or take the school bus. Rather than building expensive new trains, which no one will ride because commuter trains are so depressing (and noisy and smelly) why not just make it against the law to drive your kids to school if there's already a bus line in place or your kid is within walking distance of school?

FiftySix

It is interesting how many car drivers take their little ones to school compared to decades ago. The school district we live in provides school buses for kids of all ages for kids that live further than 2 miles away or that live across a dangerous roadway.

Lemond1985

"Our kids are too precious to ride on those dangerous school buses. We're better than that."

Easy for me to say that since i don't have any kids, but still, so many extra cars on the road that don't need to be there, when I'm late for work due to road construction or whatever.

cooker

I only partly agree with that. When I checked the airport websites it looked like there are over 100 flights per day between Dallas and Houston, although some may have been counted twice due to airline partners sharing the same plane. In any event, that's a still lot of people going to an airport way on the outskirts of town, that might be just as happy to go to a central rail terminal.

ironnerd

If it's on new rails, I like it.

If it's on existing rails, it's snake oil.

I-Like-To-Bike

Lots of "things" and good ideas about how to live car free, are easy to suggest by people without any responsibility for children, elderly or handicapped parents/relatives/dependents.

It is especially easy for posters who do not demonstrate any concern or even concept of what that responsibility may involve.

FiftySix

Decades ago, Bush IAH and Hobby HOU were on the outskirts of town. Due to the growth of the entire metropolitan area from Conroe to the north through to Galveston to the south, millions of people are or may be closer to those two airports than to downtown Houston.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grea...atistical_Area

cooker

No, in a typical population cluster it's likely far more people live closer to the centre than to a spot near the edge.

Mobile 155

Are you sure? https://www.quora.com/Do-more-people...or-rural-areas

cooker

yes - in any populated area, more people are going to be closer to the middle of it than to a spot near the edge. Plus, if they develop a major rail station in Houston or Dallas, more density will build up around it over time, making it more and more efficient, while you can't build up much density near an airport.

Mobile 155

That has not been my observation. Detroit isn't that way nor is many north eastern cities with a large Metropolitan area. This study seems to indicate city centers aren't drawing the lions share of people either. https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018...l-communities/


As the economy improves it could get worse. Not for some but for high density urban cores. Job sprawl is a factor at least in the US because it cost less to build the workplace and the housing for the workers. Yes it slowed during the recession but it amplified the point that people will go where the jobs are no matter how they have to get there. In my opinion the old idea that jobs were in the central core is outdated. The big eastern cities of Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland sort of show that. L.A. has always had job sprawl as has San Diego and San Francisco. So if you aren't in banking and finance the city core isn't what it once was. I don't have to agree with it I just have to admit it is happening. Just what good will a train to Central Huston really do if it isn't near business or manufacturing? https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...wl-5370561.php

FiftySix

That does show the northern Houston area airport, but not the southern Houston area airport.

The Houston area has several business districts, with downtown just being one of them. The one with the most growth right now seems to be in The Woodlands. Yes, they capitalize The. I travel the greater Houston area and the state of Texas for work. Almost always driving if the trip is 6 hours one way or less. A 2.5L minivan for relative fuel economy.

Anyway, when I go to places like The Woodlands (north of IAH, but south of Conroe) they have their own inbound rush hour traffic. Many gas & oil companies have relocated from Houston to The Woodlands. Biggest one I can think of is Exxon/Mobil who moved everything from downtown and west of downtown to a huge new campus in The Woodlands.

I really didn't touch on the sprawl filling in the land to the west past Katy or Baytown to the east.

I've came to this area back in 1972 with my parents as I was only 7. I learned to drive here and watch the urban sprawl take place, which is what my family was a part of as well. Back then, we had one loop around the city. Now we have three and one can't make a full circle because of Galveston Bay.

Like Toronto being on a body of water, so is the greater Houston area. Sprawl is going in all directions, but is limited on one side by the bay.

Another thing driving housing and companies north and away from the bay are hurricanes. Harvey in 2017 and Ike in 2008. Hurricane Ike made some companies move outright, but Harvey proved it doesn't matter where you move to.

My point of view and opinions I give are of a long time Houstonian who has lived within the city and out in the burbs. I can't speak for everyone, but I believe I give a fair representation of a 'burb dweller here as I currently live near the 2nd loop out of the three I mentioned above.

I do believe that car owners that live well outside of loop 610 and north of I-10 will likely not go into downtown Houston to catch a train to Dallas-Ft. Worth (aka the Metroplex). Those car owners will likely just drive north.

For people that live south of I-10, and well outside of loop 610, at least a stop in downtown Houston would be on the way northbound. Not sure if they'd actually drive all the way downtown, when I think most of them would just stop at Hobby airport (HOU) on the south side or just drive.

So, depending on pricing of a seat on a high speed train, and the quantity of trains in service, it remains to be seen how Texans will take to this special mode of transportation. From what I've read, the proposed train would hold up to 550 people per 8-car train. That is impressive.

tandempower

What would you do with those 10 hours if you didn't spend them sitting behind the wheel?

jon c. 

I'd probably spend a good bit of them driving out to the country.

Mobile 155

Touche! well played.

Rollfast

Texas World Problems.

KraneXL

Texas, Florida, and California. The three states where high-speed rail (HSR) is most desperately needed and most ardently opposed. And look how well that turned out. The longer we wait, the more expensive it gets.Its not just productive time being wasted, but consider the environment impact of all those thousands of cars just sitting on the roads burning fuel and spewing exhaust emissions into the atmosphere. It not just about you being able to afford it, you're destroying the planet.

cooker

I didn't take the Hobby airport into account in my earlier post - is it more of a regional airport and would that account for a big chunk of any Dallas-Houston travel?

And of course for a place like The Woodlands well north of Houston proper, going all the way back to the proposed rail station on the Houston inner circle wouldn't make sense - you would drive, fly, or in future you may have the option of driving part way and catching the train at Texas A&M if it gets built and you want to shave some time off the trip, and are going to central Dallas. However you are not ideally placed for that.

And Texas A&M might feed the train a lot. Certainly here, students boarding at or renting near Queens, McGill, U of Ottawa, U of Western Ontario, U of Toronto and other universities well connected by rail in Southern Ontario and southern Quebec, do a lot of their travel home on weekends, breaks and end of term by rail.

Mobile 155

Is it not up to Texas, Florida and California’s population to decide how desperate they are for a more than 77 billion dollar project? And if you build it and people don’t use it then what? Amtrak has lost money every year since 1974.

As far as someone destroying the earth just how accurate has that prediction been so far? The last group of experts assured an ex Vice President the Polls both north and south would be gone already. They aren’t last time I checked. The new group says we have less than 12 years left. The US with 335 million people has the second most cars now following China. China has 1.3 billion and plans to be like the US in a few years. That is their official position and goal. That means mare that 4 times more people will be having a western sized carbon footprint in a few years. India is pushing for the same plan and they have another 1.3 billion people. Add that to China and you have 8 times our population. If the UN isn’t lying to us people not cars impact the earth the most. So if each Child born is more carbon heavy than driving it would seem if every person in the US just sat at home and did nothing China and India would replace our numbers in less than five years. And the reduction to carbon we provided by staying home. Would be moot.

In other words blaming the US driver at this point is spitting in the wind. It is not our birth rate that will push the planet over the cliff.

HSR will not change a thing as long as the rest of the world wants to live like people in the US so just how desperate can it be?

FiftySix

Hobby HOU is the traditional Houston base for Southwest Airlines which is well used for quick regional flights. Only recently has Southwest got a piece of the pie at Bush IAH.

Before Bush was built, Hobby was Houston's main airport. But that was a long time ago, 1927 through about 1969 or a bit later for Hobby.

Just for grins, I looked up flight info for non-stop one-way flights leaving the Houston airports and going to Dallas (DFW). For May 2, 2019 there are 25 flights from Hobby and 17 from Bush. Coming back to Houston from Dallas on the same day are 23 flights to Hobby and 16 flights to Bush.

These numbers might be due to people on the north side of Houston simply driving to Dallas since the drive north is shorter for them.

KraneXL

Florida was offered 2 billion in Federal funding by then president Obama to begin its project. At the time, the nation was deep into the recession and Florida was one of the worst states hit.

That money would have put a lot of starving people to work. But rather than accept the funding, Florida's then governor Rick Scott (among the worst governors in the history of the state) rejected the funding, stating it would put a burden on the tax payers to maintain. Preferring to let its starving citizens eat cake.

We already know what happens when we put all our eggs in one basket. After our nation was crippled by the oil embargo of the 1970s and we did nothing to develop an alternative fuel source. Next, it was the aftermath of 9/11.

So here we are now 18 years later, and we're no better equipped to handle a similar national emergency than we were back then. One threat and our major transportation is crippled.

Imagine the progress we would have made by now if we had at least started a high-speed rail program. Instead, we're exactly where we were then, and no better off.

We have no alternative fuel source (after 45 years) and no alternative mode of transportation should a threat or crisis occur. What does countries like Japan and other parts of the world know that we don't? Instead of being world leaders, we're falling further and further behind.

One last thing, the citizen are voters and voters determine the leaders that make the decisions about the state of the union. So yes, what the population wants and needs does matter as long as we learn from our mistakes and don't keep voting for the wrong people. Wake up American before its too late.

Mobile 155

California got 9.5 billion to start the core project from the same place that offered money to Florida. We now have an estimated 77 Billion unfinished project that if any is finished will connect A small city to a medium sized city. That was 13 years ago. The line if it ever get started will run through farm and ranch land. No one knows who would be interested in taking what people are calling the train to no where. In 2016 the us was 81 percent energy indispensably and in 2011 we were listed as an energy exporter. Without the HSR. We have a veritable plethora of airports between San Francisco and LA let alone San Diego. The plane goes 500 plus MPH and the airports are already there. They aren’t going away either.

Rollfast

I have a word for all that, maybe two.

Metra and Accela.

But I think what the real objection against it is MONEY. A lot of it has been thrown away lately, especially in California. It wasn't supposed to be mindboggling, just a train.