Riv-Lantis

I really think Tesla is on the right track. They're going into the market with a viable car with HUGE performance and over 200 miles per charge. They're not trying to meet a mass market price point with their first offering. Tesla knew that to get the performance and range they wanted, the car would be expensive anyway just from the technology, so they wrapped that technology in an awsome sports car and went for the upper end of the market where the market could support low volume/high cost. It costs $100,000, but it's competing with other cars that cost $100,000+.

Tesla is using the capital from the first few thousand Roadsters to finance the White Star, a 4 door sedan that will compete with sports sedans from BMW, Lexus, Infinity, etc. in 2010. It will get well over 200 miles per charge and cost less than $50,000. Still expensive, but it's competing with other cars in that same price real. And they've effectively halved the cost of their technology.

The plan is to then have an Accord/Camry competitor by 2012 that is half again the cost of the White Star. THAT is the car that will put a serious scare into Detroit. A 200+ mile range EV (with the posibility of flash charging from capacitors) for under $30k. Still pricey, but when you figure in the fact that the "fuel" to run the car costs virtually nothing compared to gasoline or deisel fuel, it brings it well into the affordable range of an awful lot of people.

BIG-E

ANY type of car requires lots of nasty infrastructure.

Ride your bike.

AStomper

+1 on storing electricity is insanely expensive. Also, a power plant may be 60% efficient (I hear some cars with 4 rings are getting 33% efficiency) but transporting the power and converting it from 400KV to 400V to 120V uses resources. Also, ever touch a battery charger, or a battery that is charging? They are warm, or even hot. That is energy being wasted.

Electricity is a good way to run a car, but has to be stored in a diff. form. Batt. just don't cut it.

Why burn natural gas, to turn a generator, to make electricity, to ship it, to charge a batt., to turn a motor, to turn wheels? Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) cars are available that skip all that. Initially storage is $2000-5000, but tanks last forever. Burn gas, turn engine, turn the wheels.

mharter

I see EVs as part of an efficient transit system, best used for local trips. High speed intercity rail is way fast than driving, and way more efficient than many small vehicles lugging heavy batteries at highway speed. The information age has opened up the potential for EVs to be waiting for passengers at a train station near their final destination. As oil gets more expensive it will become more expensive to rebuild the nations rail infrastructure, but eventually people who choose to drive will be forced to look at this sort of solution. If we wait too long we won't be able to afford a solution like this at all, and we'll be stuck with what we have, expensive, inefficient, slow transportation.

Oh, did I forget to include bikes in this future? How about bike carriages so we don't have to box them!

DirtPedalerB

They can't even make a computer battery that is warranted for over a year and does not explode... I have like 5 electric drills with bad batteries.. These are bad for the environment as well.. Electricity is great .. Batteries however are crap.

geo8rge

Who Killed the Electric Car? You did, by not buying one. Basically when it comes to shelling out the cash, people do not buy electric cars. They do like them if they are free or highly subsidized.

Buy one here: https://www.gemcar.com/

gpsblake

Who is going to spend the tens of thousands of dollars to do that, and they aren't even always reliable. And actually who is stopping me? Most communities won't allow them under zoning laws or neighborhood ordinances, especially wind turbines.

Also the overall cost of riding a bike versus riding a car. Remember, your time **IS MONEY**. So if it takes an 1 hour to bicycle 10 miles to work and an hour to bicycle back, that's two hours wasted. Considering your time is worth 10 bucks an hour, it is much more cost efficient to ride a car. I've got a daughter and I'll be darned if I would ride a bicycle and have to spend 2 hours less a day to be with her and my wife because I was "saving the environment". And a 10 mile commute these days is short.

that's why Americans will never give up cars.

And don't me get wrong, I ride my bike whenever possible. But it's simply not FeASBLE for almost anyone to give up cars and take up bikes unless you live in a downtown major city.

I do agree that big oil will never allow a real efficient electric car to hit the market.

And finally (sigh), as a bicyclists, do you realize how quiet electric cars are? An example is a golf cart. Do you really want to be riding on the road without the ability to hear a car coming up from behind you. That's one issue they would have to address.

kmcrawford111

First, a little background on me as it pertains to this topic:

1. My fiance wanted a new car. I didn't want to spend money on one. At the time we had her '97 Mitsubishi Galant and my '98 Ford Ranger. We saw the movie An Inconvenient Truth. The movie started a chain reaction of changes in my lifestyle to be more environmentally-conscious. I decided that buying a Toyota Prius was a good environmental decision while also satisfying her desire for a new car. The resulting ~$3300 bonus from my '06 tax return is going to be enough to pay for most of our honeymoon.
2. I saw Who Killed the Electric Car? I too thought that the electric car sounded great. I still don't see the range issue is such a huge deal - if you have two cars in a household, and it seems to me that most do, why not simply use the non-EV for the longer trips? An EV seems well-suited for regular daily driving. I think it comes down to the fact that Americans want everything. The consequences to any choice aren't even considered. The appalling amount of advertising we're exposed to certainly doesn't help. And for those who say advertising can't be blamed, ask yourself this: if it wasn't working, why is it so heavily used? My estimate is that in a given hour of TV, at least 10% is car commercials.

3. From a link on this site, I learned about Peak Oil. I found it shocking and depressing and it has greatly changed my outlook on life. I've now realized that just making better decisions about the light bulbs or even cars you buy is only a small part of the whole picture. I read James Howard Kunstler, including his newest book The Long Emergency. But don't think for a minute that I get all of my information from only one source. I have come to the conclusion that our car culture is completely insane. People say that Americans will never give up their cars - I say that reality is going to largely take them away. From kunstler.com, today:

"Both West Texas Intermediate and NYMEX crude pushed firmly above all-time record price this morning into uncharted territory over $78."

All I have been reading leads me to believe that gasoline is going to rise exponentially in price. The oil that is being drilled now is harder to get out ($$$) and more difficult to refine ($$$). All this while world demand grows (Supply < demand = still more $$$)! America in particular is in for a real shock. If you think people are whining now, what do you think it will be like in 2010? 2020, anyone?

I'm ranting a bit here, so let me get back on topic. The electric car certainly seems better than what we've been doing. But I have to ask myself, do we really have the capacity to support many EVs? Have we not had enough stress on the electrical grids already, largely because, you know, 73 degrees is just too damn hot? By the way, anything that relies on natural gas isn't anything remotely close to a solution either due to inevitable supply problems with that. And that includes... a lot of electricity.

Is not the real problem that we've become way too dependent on cars, no thanks to our absolutely ******** land-use laws? People are in a consensus trance, believing that anything they do is OK and that all they have to do is pay the (credit) bills and they will be OK. Of the people who seem to care at all, the vast majority of those seem to simply want another energy source to keep the current lifestyle going. Great idea. Now we've started to use our food supply (corn) so we can keep driving our cars, simultaneously wondering why we have an obesity epidemic. All this in a blink of an eye on the Earth's time scale.

Yeah, I've been ranting. Pick out the parts that directly pertain to the topic.

Hoshnasi

Hey guys, just wanted to post this because I found it interesting to say the least...

Is the Prius worse than a Hummer?!?!

When it comes to production of batteries I can see how this MIGHT be possible. Its crazy when you think about it. The recent environment scare is really putting money in some peoples pockets. Toyota for making a car that has been deemed the flagship of the environment friendly and various figurheads and politicians for being more environmentally sensitive.

I'm taking no stance either way really. I'll keep biking because I know at the very lest its good for me. If I can help out everyone else in the process GREAT!!!

Blue Jays

When in doubt, pull out the shopworn German accent technique. We know what that's supposed to mean.

Hoshnasi

Well I guess the thread is over then?

Blue Jays

Hoshnasi, it's a pretty good rule to follow for online conversations, generally speaking. Thanks for the hyperlink.