iab

Over the weekend I had the privilege to have all versions of the Campagnolo Gran Sport front derailleur in my grubby hands. Made from 1951-1952, they are most easily distinguished by having a lip on the cage and an old logo stamp. On the left is the money shot, the 1A that does not have a through hole on the cage. It's the only one I have ever held and it went to it's rightful owner at the end of the weekend. Not having a through hole is difficult to manufacture and an odd choice because on the first generation quick release in 1933 there was no through hole on the cone. Tullio abandoned that very quickly. You think he would have learned that lesson. 1B (middle) has the through hole. And 1C (right) had the tension screw change. These have also been kluged a bit over the last 70 years so there are other "incorrect" differences.

GS FD 01 by iabisdb, on Flickr

GS FD 02 by iabisdb, on Flickr

GS FD 03 by iabisdb, on Flickr

GS FD 04 by iabisdb, on Flickr

chain_whipped

Imagine the premier classic bicycle concour. Pebble Beach judge is that fellow^^

TiHabanero

These ders remind me of the Valentino der on my friend, Pete's Torpado he rode when we were kids. It was a 1974 or 75 he got from Lee's Sporting Goods. Called it the bumblebee bike as it was yellow with black stripes. The thing always worked well over the years, and I thought it was neat because of the push-rod design.

Schreck83 

Never realized these had pushrods that are angled up away from the frame. Thx for posting!

repechage

assembling a correct bike is only for personal satisfaction.
‘there are no nationally recognized, intense interest bicycle concours events.
the way of things.

and thank goodness my oldest bike it from 1953.

mpetry912 

I never cared for this model. The cable fixing bolt and the cage bolt were easy to strip.

the 1037 was such a step up ! but I understand, gotta be period correct.

I have a neighbor who was a judge at Pebble Beach. His specialty was Duesenbergs. He has some thoughts on "period correct"

and there is also the Richard Sachs article. Period Correct - Richard Sachs Cycles

/markp

iab

Not my best move purchasing a frame from 1951, maybe my last Everest?

The 1A went to a friend with an exceptional collection, the 1B is good enough for me. And I'm trying to unload the 1C to help finance the 1B.

markk900

Thanks iab for the education in campag front changers. I had no idea!

re: Period Correct: I think we must differentiate between “as delivered from the factory” and “period correct”. The Richard Sachs article documents an attempt to achieve the former; the latter is very subjective - all machines but especially race equipment is constantly being updated and changed by its owner. Can you imagine someone buying a new Cervelo bike and obsessing over keeping it “as delivered”?

And of course one must always take into account that catalogs were not always updated and frankly many bike builders (especially the French and Italians) were pragmatists and put whatever components would work and were to hand on their products. This is especially true with motorcycles but I assume also with bicycles - many of the even large makers were often in financial straits and so did whatever was needed to keep production moving.

I am glad there are folks who can achieve the “as delivered” Pebble Beach result; those machines are amazing to see. But machines should be used and so “period correct” is good enough for me!

bulgie 

This is a valuable reference document, thanks iab !

The tell-tales to distinguish a (later) GS from a Valentino are well documented, but I'll throw in the pics I took some years ago in case it helps any newbies:






Summary:
(1) the Valentino has a "spigot" coming off the side of the matchbox where the pushrod emerges. No spigot on GS
(2) on Valentino, the bolt that fixes the cage onto the pushrod faces forward, vs. facing up on GS
(3) cage is riveted together at the rear/bottom on Valentino, bolted on GS
(4) dull plating on the steel parts on Valentino, vs. bright polished chrome on GS.
(5) cable anchor on Valentino is a screw threaded into the arm, where GS has a hole through a bolt, with a separate nut on it (arm not threaded)

Mark B

repechage

Valentino the son was saddled with the low end goods affixed to his name.
‘Maybe the thing to do is name the 100th anniversary group after him.
and do a better than the 80th decal job.

if I was running Campagnolo right now, I would devise a way to lure those poor blighters who are now worried about their Shimano crank sets and when told there is no ETA for a recall replacement… swoop in.

repechage

yeah, Sticking with Masi and the Carlsbad bikes as an example, delivered with White Hunt-Wilde handlebar plugs, in the start the factory parts kit there was no handlebar caps or plugs.
almost, every buyer had the freewheel, stem or bars or saddle, pedals (to Superleggeri) exchanged upon delivery. Everyone liked the Clement 250’s and Martano rims.

John E

Kind of like Edsel Ford ...

I had to scrap the original Campag. pushrod unit that came on my 1959 Capo because wear in the aluminum body rendered cage motion control erratic, at best. I still have the original unit that came with one of the Siegers. The upward tilt of the pushrod is a huge improvement over the horizontal motion of the Simplex pushrod units, particularly with half-step or 1.5-step gearing.

Lattz

Both Valentino and Edsel got something, but how many Ferrari Pieros are running around (yeah-yeah much like Edsel also leading the company and rich but not a single car in almost 80 years)?

obrentharris 

This thread brought to mind a front derailleur that has resided for years in the bottom of my small box of Italian parts from the '50s and '60s. I was always a bit puzzled by it, but evidently too lazy to do any research on it. I fished it out today and looked online for any information on it. The only thing I found was an entry in Velobase stating that, with its black cage and hardware, it is a Turismo from the late '50s, early '60s. It is described as "extremely rare."

Is it indeed extremely rare? Will I be able to buy that early DeRosa I've always coveted with the proceeds that a Campagnolo collector will happily send my way? Or is "extremely rare" just one person's opinion of an item he happens to own? Or does "extremely rare" mean that no one wanted them in their day and no one wants them now either?












Brent

iab

It is rare, but not desirable. It will fetch you tens and tens of dollars. How much is that DeRosa?

mpetry912 

Rare but not that desireable. I like that !

the 1037 unit is so good, in my opinion it is one of the best bike components ever made.

these old FDs do not do it for me, they did not shift that well anyway, yes I like "vintage" but period correct will do.

at least for me

/markp