wesley77803

Don'f forget the huge difference in chainstays: 41.5 on the 660 and 47 on the 620

Of course it could have been a case of trying to use up excess parts since 85 was the last year for the 620 and the 720 and the 660 went out of production for 2 years (no 86 or 87)

wesley77803

It is time to reconsider on the 24 vs holding out for a 25.5. There is currently a complete 82 24" 720 on ebay for $480 plus shipping which appears to be a flat rate of $95. Serial number 034373

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254821082016

It makes the 22.5 frame for $375 plus $65 shipping seem very over priced.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324440201437

mountaindave 

Thanks for the heads up. That is a mysterious bike. The serial number and frame seem to pan out, but the paint, decals and headbadge do not. Of course it could be a respray with the wrong decals, but one would hope for some more info on that. Also, the seller is either ESL or just has bad grammar.

RiddleOfSteel

@The_Golden_Boy thank you for recounting you 620 vs 720 experience as well as your other Reynolds 531 experiences. We are at the opposing ends of frame size, and I wonder how things were differently made at the 21" size vs. 25.5", to say nothing of rider strength and style. My 620 doesn't unduly flex in the manner that my fully-DB 531 1981/2 Trek 716 did. Same wheels and tires! The 620 is a remarkable balance between rigidity and flex. Sure, the cold weather hampers things--it really does--but I assume it only gets sweeter once the temperature warms as we approach spring and summer.

The 720's 531ST (main tubes, with 531C for everything else) for 1984 vs. the fully-531C 1985 720 makes me want to try a 1985 just for the 'purity' of tubing (and thus lower weight). I think I'd still be happy with anything from 1982-1985 in the 720 range.

I have some wheel building updates to post, and am readying the photos and narration.

polymorphself 

Will you go for fenders eventually, given your rainy locale and the nature of the bike?

RiddleOfSteel

I am looking into it heavily, and stopped by Recycled Cycles last week to look at the PDW Road Plus fenders and others. PDW has larger ones, but the horizontal/flat center section was quite wide and ungainly. The Road Plus, at 37mm overall width (for 30mm "max" tires), has the center section much more proportional in relation to the angled sides. So that's in the 'lead' for PDW fender choices. Oddly enough, the Planet Bike et al fenders, which are 1/3 the price, have a nice cross-section (constant curve)--enough that a changing out of the 'pup flaps' for proper long ones is a much more palatable (cheaper) solution to the fender situation.

The hindrance to all of this was the rear spoke going out. I want to bring the bike into RC (preferably riding it) and semi-mock up the fenders (at least a rear one) to get a rough visual estimate of how it would look.

RiddleOfSteel

Wheel time again. The spokes arrived from Universal Cycles! Let's hope my measurements and math were correct!

2.0-1.5-2.0mm DT Swiss Revolutions for the non-drive-side, and 2.0-1.8-2.0mm DT Swiss Competitions for the drive-side.


"Beloved, we are gathered here today to witness the unity of Shimano and Mavic (again...). May I have the spokes?"


The Chosen One...


First Spokes... Let's hope Riddle lines up the "Dura-Ace" engraving with the rim's spoke hole when it is all said and done.


Everybody at the party is holding hands. Hoping for some lasting friendships here.

RiddleOfSteel

As the 620 waits for its redone wheel, I finally employ the chain catcher to relieve the awkward, kinked shift cable tension at the chain stay exit. I've made it about as good as it can get short of machining, but this remains a bit needless (or just half-baked) on the part of 1985-era Trek, IMO.


Freaking #nailedit. Final tensioning (this was really close to that, for the record) brought the tops of the spokes even more flush, so my math plus some slight stretching combined to make for the best possible outcome. Nice to know it looks like I know what I am doing!


The final result. Looks the same as before! But seriously, the new spokes came up to tension beautifully, a marked difference from the decades-old and stretched-out former spokes. Even the radial truing was barely a hassle. I employed de-tensioning measures several times and trued the rim to within enough tolerance that any riding will do the last 1% of settling things and then I can touch things up from there. The tension is on point, though. Looking forward to riding it once all this rain subsides. We've had an epic rainy and windy start to the year here in Seattle. Today the rain and clouds got tired and took a break. Lovely sunset. Need another day on top of that to dry things out a bit better, which is what it looks like for tomorrow!

mountaindave 

RiddleOfSteel

The feather in the proverbial build cap, for me, was the water bottle cages. I couldn't find a trio of polished silver cages that all matched (locally), and since I'm not a super fancy guy when it comes to water bottle cages (just give me something that has classic good looks), it means I didn't feel compelled to spend $30 a cage. So I got some Sunlite cages, which look exactly like Specialized E Cage 6.0's but without the cut-out "S" on the mount plate...and raised "SPECIALIZED" lettering on the top/retaining 'strap' of the cage. I'm not a fan of raised text on things--recessed/engraved is always more attractive to me. Anyway, they got here a little early!


Hardware included??? Why thank you!


Matching bottle cages and hardware, fantastic. Time for a quick ride!


For the second day in a row, the rain took a breather from dumping an ocean on all of Seattle, wind included. This is a bit of a panoramic shot so as to include the Olympic Mountains (which looked way better in real life) as they are essential to the sunset experience--first thing to do on a ride as the sun goes down.


Back to the new-ish photograph "studio" after completing a 3 mile loop. The light was dimmer than it appears in the photo, hence the graininess in the next two photos. The 620 with its new rear spokes rides just as well as before. It felt great to get out of the saddle on slow climbs and feel the springiness of the frame. It also felt great just to ride a darn bike after all this rain! The new spokes didn't make any settling in noises that I could hear, but they did settle, and thus I need to do some touch-up truing.


Aaaalllll the silver accents.

Kobe 

It sure is shiny. I'm sure it rides nicer now than when it was rolled off the showroom floor.

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks, man. The lighter wheels and much newer (and more 'advanced' simply due to technology and time in the clincher world) make a huge difference 35 years on, for which I am very grateful.

The Golden Boy 

Again, going to the serial number chart- there are essentially no 1985 Trek 720s.

Just based on what I see on the internets- I seem to see more 720s decaled as 85s- IIRC, the only difference is the decal scheme and the crankset. And the tubing. But if all the bikes were built in 84- and it looks like the latest bikes were made at the beginning of Sept... still in biking season. That would mean they're all 531ST- regardless of the Reynolds sticker.

That makes me also wonder how many leftovers were sold in 86 (are you aware of the 1986 Trek 620 Cirrus bikes- with the 1986 400 blue with silver accents?).

prairiepedaler

The 620 looks like a nice model to own. Too bad it doesn't have replaceable cantilever caliper bosses. That's probably my only major beef with these older bikes (all of mine included).

RiddleOfSteel

Yup, Trek did the late 1984 model year production surge of 720s (and other 700-level frames as well). They could all be 531ST with 531C badging, or Trek could have simply done the spec change internally and built them right up. Now that is some top-level orthodoxy...or just mystery...type stuff right there.

Don't know how many leftovers for 1986 they had, but perhaps it was a few. I am not aware of a 1986 Trek 620 Cirrus, though I have known that they madea 520 Cirrus with sport touring length chainstays. A few later touring-y Treks bumped up to a nice 45.5cm chain stay. With the advent and promotion of aluminum and carbon fiber models, the now 'old news' 531-equipped models, to me, have flown under the radar for quite some time. They inherited the tubing and cast lugwork of prior years' models, but now, since everything was paid off, could be 'lower in the hierarchy' but still quite good. Paint schemes left something to be desired, but talk about your proverbial 'sleeper'!

RiddleOfSteel

For all the lack of enchantment with modern bikes/tech development, there are always a few gems along the way. Granted, having replaceable bosses and derailleur hangers on modern bikes, especially any that are spec'd for off road use, is quite thoughtful and convenient, provided one can still obtain those small pieces. Maybe one of the reasons that old steel stuff never had it was the fact that it was and is so cost-effective to bend back or simply braze on something new. Personally, if my previously-in-good-shape canti-equipped 620 need replacement canti bosses, I've wrecked the thing pretty good and the last thing on my mind is bike repair as I likely have to repair me first, for a lot more money!

RiddleOfSteel

I'm trying to figure out of my 620 is a bass boat or a bicycle. Some lovely late afternoon sun on a day after an extremely windy and rainy night (and record-setting rainiest January 1-15th for Seattle). The warmer temps and remaining breeze dried the roads and paths quickly, and since it'd been the better part of two weeks off the bike due to the dreadful weather, it was time to ride to Recycled Cycles to look at fenders. This was at the now park/small boat (kayak) put-in place--it replaced some very old and run down buildings. Lovely place now.

Would ya just look at that flake???


Man, direct sunlight really does wonders, especially for paint.


A galaxy of stars, caught in clear coat.

RiddleOfSteel

Ok, I couldn't leave without posting some macro shots of the bike and the "Ride a Bike - See Stuff" scenery.

I totally didn't Photoshop myself out of this one...


Apparently tan wall tires get really tan in sunlight...or iPhone photos.


Somebody testing their latest hydrogen bomb over Puget Sound. Didn't seem to work too well. Do these brake levers look too turned up in this photo? Because they aren't that bad.


Waterfront view. Beautiful and serene. Goose poop view (aka, all the grass), too. Made for an Indiana Jones-type watch-your-step scenario. But I braved it for the photos for you all (and totally not me)...

daka

Imron? A Cannondale I owned had similar "flake" size and was reportedly painted at the factory with DuPont's Imron. I was never a fan of the "bowling ball" look of the paint in bright sunlight. I do like it better in the blue of your bike than the anthracite that mine was.

noobinsf 

If you play "little goose poop" to yourself in your head to the tune of "Little Deuce Coupe," it helps. Lake Merritt here in Oakland is a minefield of sorts.

RiddleOfSteel

It is Imron, or at least it was at one point. I read the intro to their 1985 catalog and it isn't specifically mentioned, just a really involved paint and protection process. So who knows?

I'm a fan of metallic paint (and pearl) for the color transitions, sparkle, and resulting dynamic/interesting aesthetic. As with anyone, and especially Trek (for me), it can be hit and miss. I've thought, privately, that only Trek knows how to make a color boring (like red--how is that even possible?). I have always liked Schwinn and Cannondale's colorways as a whole. Trek has some winners, don't get me wrong. This dark blue metallic is one they've employed for a while, and I have always liked it. Their "Chestnut" orange-brown metallic is something else, but it's incredibly rare. In the end, we all have favorite or liked colors depending on what kind of bike and what kind of componentry we have on it or want to put on it. And some companies just do better paint work, and that goes a long way.

RiddleOfSteel

Well, I finally got fenders for the 620. I stopped by Recycled a couple of weeks ago to look at their fender selection and "tried on" (aka place the bundled fenders somewhat on the rear tire and then imagine things) a handful of fenders, including PDW's Road Plus and Full Metal fenders. Road Plus is spec'd for 30mm tires maximum, while the Full Fenders are of the same design, but meant for larger tires. They make 650B-specific ones as well. The Full Metal fenders were much too bulky for my long, tall, and lithe-looking 620, largely due to the broad/wide horizontal section that spans between the angled portions. As I have settled on 30-33mm tires as a great midpoint between small race tires (speed, response, light weight) and large puffball tires (cushion, bad road handling, heavier, slower), I wanted to keep the visual theme and cohesion of the 620 in fenderless form. Gloss black fenders didn't look good or right on it, and anything polished was a no go, either on the design/aesthetic front or just because silver on a techy-looking Trek clashes. So Road Plus fenders it was, after I gave it some thought for a few weeks. Found them on sale (as they're not cheap!) and figured a billion dollars in bike sales grants me the ability to pay good money for a really good product for my only bike, increasing its versatility while not being an outright performance detractor.

Let the installation fidgeting begin!

....ok, so my iPhone decided to become extremely near-sighted, and I couldn't take pictures of anything beyond "up close." So I really didn't. The front fenders set up really well, and easily. The rear fenders required much more work. The fenders wanted to hug the wheels a bit more, the short horizontal dropouts required more room, and the chain stay "bridge" is actually part of the BB casting. It's really cool looking! It's also 100 miles away from the fender/wheel, with next to no tool access for tightening a nut! The war was predominantly fought there, but I reigned victorious!

Very rarely do I have extremely quiet/silent fenders, because that is the way of most fenders in spite of my (or others') Herculean efforts. But I have them this time. The thick, clear, adhesive 3M "anti-vibration" strips actually work!


I had to semi-boot up a different non-used phone of mine to get these photos. Can't let BikeForums down!


Slender fenders in a lovely matte black matches the matte black of the tires, which was a goal of mine: have the fenders blend into the size and look of the (black portion of the) tires. Mission accomplished.


Front fender line/concentricity.


Rear fender line/concentricity. A lot more difficult to obtain, and a touch closer in radius to the axle than the front, even as I "shrunk" the front fender's diameter to match.

RiddleOfSteel

I'll throw in some detail or up-close shots for extra context.

There is a good 8mm or so of tire-top-to-fender-underside clearance, with plenty of vertical to go (as far as fender mounting). 38mm tires and fenders would be a cake walk. I really dig the PDW medallion on the front. It's a properly designed set of fenders both to the casual observer and Design major (me).


37mm overall width (the fenders), made for 30mm tires (which I have). Plenty of room. What a breath of fresh air to install!


Last week I got my chain stay protector decal from VeloCals. This is the first official photo (on BF) of it. Turned out great!


The battleground. The hole for the BB "chain stay bridge" is 5mm and not threaded. I bought a 100mm threaded rod (M5) and cut 20mm off, leaving 80mm for the needed length plus nuts and washers to complete the fender anchoring. The slot in the fender is 6mm wide, so washers are needed when using small nuts to secure it. Sadly, I have to give up my ability to install a fully inflated tire. I could get around that by coming up with a de-coupling system that allows that part of the fender to move forward freely 20mm, but that is perhaps for another day. I can get a tire with 10-15 PSI in it and pop it into the dropouts pretty easily, so that's a workable solution for now. Fender line is key!!


Again, plenty of clearance on this 620 frame. So nice.


I've always liked this script and font. Classy, low key, and asymmetrical (only on the drive side). You can see the anti-vibration strip (it's also under the brake bridge bracket).


Just a rear view on this cold but nice day.

belacqua

Just beautiful work

ctak

How about a post-wet-ride assessment?