Stretched proof chain
04-07-21, 11:03 PM
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Stretched proof chain
Just curious if there’s a stretched proof chain out there. How many miles can I get out of an Izumi chain?
04-08-21, 12:26 AM
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As far as I know a stretch proof chain is nonexistent. And while there's no hard and fast number of miles that chains are rated for, general consensus seems to be about 1k-2k miles. For the majority of people that probably means replacing it once a year - not unreasonable for a part that you can get for ~ $10-15.
04-08-21, 12:45 AM
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Yes, it is called a belt drive.
People talk about chain stretch, but the chain doesn't literally stretch. There is wear in the joints, which allows for a little more movement, and the chain becomes a little longer.
To have a chain that doesn't stretch, you would need a chain that doesn't wear.
In past decades, chains lasted much longer. I believe they are making things lighter now, which is an advantage to those racing. But to everyone else it means spending more on spare parts, and more profit for the manufacturers.
Because chains are not a very expensive item, it is easier to just replace them them when needed, rather than trying to get manufacturers to make them tougher.
For the inventors out there, someone could make a combination belt and chain, which fits bicycles normally using regular chains. It is a bit more complicated than it sounds, because you need it to be exactly the right length (so you would need various sizes), and the frame needs to be modified to fit it.
People talk about chain stretch, but the chain doesn't literally stretch. There is wear in the joints, which allows for a little more movement, and the chain becomes a little longer.
To have a chain that doesn't stretch, you would need a chain that doesn't wear.
In past decades, chains lasted much longer. I believe they are making things lighter now, which is an advantage to those racing. But to everyone else it means spending more on spare parts, and more profit for the manufacturers.
Because chains are not a very expensive item, it is easier to just replace them them when needed, rather than trying to get manufacturers to make them tougher.
For the inventors out there, someone could make a combination belt and chain, which fits bicycles normally using regular chains. It is a bit more complicated than it sounds, because you need it to be exactly the right length (so you would need various sizes), and the frame needs to be modified to fit it.
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04-08-21, 07:52 AM
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I expect to run a chain at least 3000 miles and hopefully 4000 miles before replacing it. Replacement spec for SS is 1% lengthening, so 1/10” over 10 links.
I have at least 1500 single speed miles on the chains of both of my bikes and they have less than .5% lengthening. Those are $10 KMC chains but I’d expect similar lifespan for most any chain.
Otto
I have at least 1500 single speed miles on the chains of both of my bikes and they have less than .5% lengthening. Those are $10 KMC chains but I’d expect similar lifespan for most any chain.
Otto
04-08-21, 08:57 AM
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I've been running Izumis on all my fix gears. 1/8" for all chains, cogs and chainrings. Two of my fix gears have 20,000 miles. I haven't kept count but I'd guess I've used maybe 4 chains on the winter/rain/city bike and 6 on the good bike.
I run one cog and chainring on the city bike and change the cog once then both ring and cog. Might be on its 2nd ring.
I have all the cogs for the good bike. That's enough of an investment that I change the chain every 1/16" of "stretch" and cogs when they run rough with a new chain (basically only the 17 and 16 tooth cogs). I'm keeping the old chains in bags and labeled with the stretch. When most of my cogs are worn past accepting new chains, I will choose between spending the bucks to replace the cogs (if they are available), going to a new "standard" of the worn cogs and stretched chains or retiring from fix gear riding. (I'm 68 years old. I have a few years to go running these cogs with new chains replacing just the 16 and 17 and maybe one other so the big decisions won't be happening until I'm what, 75 years old?)
All this to say: if you run 1/8" and good stuff, be reasonably good about lube and cleanliness (I am far from religious here) and a little systematic re: chain stretch, fix gear chains can last a long time.
I run one cog and chainring on the city bike and change the cog once then both ring and cog. Might be on its 2nd ring.
I have all the cogs for the good bike. That's enough of an investment that I change the chain every 1/16" of "stretch" and cogs when they run rough with a new chain (basically only the 17 and 16 tooth cogs). I'm keeping the old chains in bags and labeled with the stretch. When most of my cogs are worn past accepting new chains, I will choose between spending the bucks to replace the cogs (if they are available), going to a new "standard" of the worn cogs and stretched chains or retiring from fix gear riding. (I'm 68 years old. I have a few years to go running these cogs with new chains replacing just the 16 and 17 and maybe one other so the big decisions won't be happening until I'm what, 75 years old?)
All this to say: if you run 1/8" and good stuff, be reasonably good about lube and cleanliness (I am far from religious here) and a little systematic re: chain stretch, fix gear chains can last a long time.
Last edited by 79pmooney; 04-08-21 at 09:07 AM. Reason: typos
04-08-21, 09:50 AM
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I expect to run a chain at least 3000 miles and hopefully 4000 miles before replacing it. Replacement spec for SS is 1% lengthening, so 1/10” over 10 links.
I have at least 1500 single speed miles on the chains of both of my bikes and they have less than .5% lengthening. Those are $10 KMC chains but I’d expect similar lifespan for most any chain.
Otto
I have at least 1500 single speed miles on the chains of both of my bikes and they have less than .5% lengthening. Those are $10 KMC chains but I’d expect similar lifespan for most any chain.
Otto
04-08-21, 09:53 AM
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I've been running Izumis on all my fix gears. 1/8" for all chains, cogs and chainrings. Two of my fix gears have 20,000 miles. I haven't kept count but I'd guess I've used maybe 4 chains on the winter/rain/city bike and 6 on the good bike.
I run one cog and chainring on the city bike and change the cog once then both ring and cog. Might be on its 2nd ring.
I have all the cogs for the good bike. That's enough of an investment that I change the chain every 1/16" of "stretch" and cogs when they run rough with a new chain (basically only the 17 and 16 tooth cogs). I'm keeping the old chains in bags and labeled with the stretch. When most of my cogs are worn past accepting new chains, I will choose between spending the bucks to replace the cogs (if they are available), going to a new "standard" of the worn cogs and stretched chains or retiring from fix gear riding. (I'm 68 years old. I have a few years to go running these cogs with new chains replacing just the 16 and 17 and maybe one other so the big decisions won't be happening until I'm what, 75 years old?)
All this to say: if you run 1/8" and good stuff, be reasonably good about lube and cleanliness (I am far from religious here) and a little systematic re: chain stretch, fix gear chains can last a long time.
I run one cog and chainring on the city bike and change the cog once then both ring and cog. Might be on its 2nd ring.
I have all the cogs for the good bike. That's enough of an investment that I change the chain every 1/16" of "stretch" and cogs when they run rough with a new chain (basically only the 17 and 16 tooth cogs). I'm keeping the old chains in bags and labeled with the stretch. When most of my cogs are worn past accepting new chains, I will choose between spending the bucks to replace the cogs (if they are available), going to a new "standard" of the worn cogs and stretched chains or retiring from fix gear riding. (I'm 68 years old. I have a few years to go running these cogs with new chains replacing just the 16 and 17 and maybe one other so the big decisions won't be happening until I'm what, 75 years old?)
All this to say: if you run 1/8" and good stuff, be reasonably good about lube and cleanliness (I am far from religious here) and a little systematic re: chain stretch, fix gear chains can last a long time.
which Izumi chain do you use? I maintain my chains weekly. I ride about 120 miles per week and I always wipe and wax the chain at the end of the week. Using wax for lubricant makes it easy to clean.
Last edited by jay4usc; 04-08-21 at 10:03 AM.
04-08-21, 09:57 AM
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Yes, it is called a belt drive.
People talk about chain stretch, but the chain doesn't literally stretch. There is wear in the joints, which allows for a little more movement, and the chain becomes a little longer.
To have a chain that doesn't stretch, you would need a chain that doesn't wear.
In past decades, chains lasted much longer. I believe they are making things lighter now, which is an advantage to those racing. But to everyone else it means spending more on spare parts, and more profit for the manufacturers.
Because chains are not a very expensive item, it is easier to just replace them them when needed, rather than trying to get manufacturers to make them tougher.
For the inventors out there, someone could make a combination belt and chain, which fits bicycles normally using regular chains. It is a bit more complicated than it sounds, because you need it to be exactly the right length (so you would need various sizes), and the frame needs to be modified to fit it.
People talk about chain stretch, but the chain doesn't literally stretch. There is wear in the joints, which allows for a little more movement, and the chain becomes a little longer.
To have a chain that doesn't stretch, you would need a chain that doesn't wear.
In past decades, chains lasted much longer. I believe they are making things lighter now, which is an advantage to those racing. But to everyone else it means spending more on spare parts, and more profit for the manufacturers.
Because chains are not a very expensive item, it is easier to just replace them them when needed, rather than trying to get manufacturers to make them tougher.
For the inventors out there, someone could make a combination belt and chain, which fits bicycles normally using regular chains. It is a bit more complicated than it sounds, because you need it to be exactly the right length (so you would need various sizes), and the frame needs to be modified to fit it.
04-08-21, 02:19 PM
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You would probably not convert, but buy a bike with a belt drive. Most belt drive bikes use internally geared hubs, unless you are happy with single speed. They also use a modified frame. It seems they are becoming more common. In the future they may or may not become more competitively priced.
04-08-21, 03:10 PM
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You would probably not convert, but buy a bike with a belt drive. Most belt drive bikes use internally geared hubs, unless you are happy with single speed. They also use a modified frame. It seems they are becoming more common. In the future they may or may not become more competitively priced.
Belt drives are increasingly common on motorbikes, with several manufacturers using them on very powerful machines. I had an 800cc bike with a belt drive that never needed adjustment or any form of servicing but needed replacing every 50,000 miles. It follows from this that a belt drive on a pedal bike could easily be made that was maintenance free for very long periods.
One problem with belt drive is that they can be cut if a stone is picked up and trapped between the belt and the cog, which is why they are unsuitable for bikes ridden hard off road.
For a clean, easy to use utility bicycle — commuting, shopping, short leisure rides — the convenience of belt drive and either single speed or internal hub gears would be ideal. It all depends on whether the manufacturers and marketing people decide to promote it, or whether they prefer to keep selling over specified, unnecessarily complex bikes to the gullible.
It is always sad to see a person labouring along a flat city road on a heavy twin-suspension mountain-style bike with about 30 gears when the rider probably never goes more than 3 miles from home on it, but people buy "features" over practicality almost every time. Would belt drive and an "old fashioned" hub gear sell?
04-08-21, 03:48 PM
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https://www.mromagazine.com/features...chain-stretch/
If you maintain your chains by keeping them clean and properly lubricated on quality round chainrings and cogs that are smooth you will get a lot of life out of a chain especially a high quality one like say a Izumi Super Toughness KAI.
A belt will certainly last quite a bit longer but if you have brown streaks in your underwear you should wipe better number 1 and number 2 a belt is not for you as belts are not designed for skidding or using as a method to kinda slow down. You would want brakes for that anyway because unless you are on a track you cannot predict anything but what you do and you certainly wouldn't want to leave you not crashing in the hands of some distracted driver while you are doing "Swaaaaeeet skidzzzzz braaaah"
If you use a belt you will need a dedicated frame for it or if you have a steel frame someone to modify it to accept a belt because the Gates Carbon Belts which are well known and reliable don't break so the frame has too or it has to have elevated chain stays to clear the belt.
If you maintain your chains by keeping them clean and properly lubricated on quality round chainrings and cogs that are smooth you will get a lot of life out of a chain especially a high quality one like say a Izumi Super Toughness KAI.
A belt will certainly last quite a bit longer but if you have brown streaks in your underwear you should wipe better number 1 and number 2 a belt is not for you as belts are not designed for skidding or using as a method to kinda slow down. You would want brakes for that anyway because unless you are on a track you cannot predict anything but what you do and you certainly wouldn't want to leave you not crashing in the hands of some distracted driver while you are doing "Swaaaaeeet skidzzzzz braaaah"
If you use a belt you will need a dedicated frame for it or if you have a steel frame someone to modify it to accept a belt because the Gates Carbon Belts which are well known and reliable don't break so the frame has too or it has to have elevated chain stays to clear the belt.
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