The current state of 650b vs 26 x 1 3/8
09-19-23, 03:48 PM
#1
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The current state of 650b vs 26 x 1 3/8
Hi everyone. The spoke nipples on my original raleigh front wheel are corroded. I had my first one bust last week. I think it's time for new rims. I know opinions vary. Is there any tangible advantage to going 650b? It would be much more expensive than original size for me. I just want the bike for exercising, light touring, and a century ride, if I get in good enough shape. The local reputable bike shop said they would put me in raleigh sized alloy rims for 100$ and I think 10$ in labor per wheel. I could use my current very old tires for now. 650b would be 175$ plus the 10 each labor. And the cost of tires. Does the increased selection of 650b tires make a difference to me? I already like how it rides just fine on the steel. Some say that the alloy really helps with hill climbs. That would help me a lot some of the routes I want to tackle are very steep. I'm already running 22t cog and may try 24t. I know raleigh sports aren't billy goats. I like the ride feel a lot, almost to the point of staying with steel wheels. And I enjoy the sa 3 speed so much. So I'd like to increase climbing ability a bit if possible. And yes I'm working everytime to increase my own cycling ability. Any thoughts? And yes the cost of 650b upgrade causes me a bit of trepidation. If I could do it myself I would feel better. But I couldn't find 650b rims much cheaper than having the bike shop do it. And it would be my first wheel build. Thanks c and v crew
09-19-23, 04:01 PM
#2
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The one place where dropping weight on a bike pays off is in the wheels. Not to mention that steel rims perform worse than alloy with rim brakes. Somebody out there may disagree but steel rims is not what you use if you have any choice in the matter.
650b is great to have smaller rubber that is the same size as the much fatter knobby dirt rubber. Doing so preserves the bike geometry that would be affected by a smaller 26" tire. If you want to run 32mm~42mm tires they are ideal. For paved and gravel roads they are awesome.
If I was spending money I would go 650b. 26" tires are a dime a dozen in the used market, you can always pick another set of those for dirt cheap.
650b is great to have smaller rubber that is the same size as the much fatter knobby dirt rubber. Doing so preserves the bike geometry that would be affected by a smaller 26" tire. If you want to run 32mm~42mm tires they are ideal. For paved and gravel roads they are awesome.
If I was spending money I would go 650b. 26" tires are a dime a dozen in the used market, you can always pick another set of those for dirt cheap.
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09-19-23, 04:26 PM
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The one place where dropping weight on a bike pays off is in the wheels. Not to mention that steel rims perform worse than alloy with rim brakes. Somebody out there may disagree but steel rims is not what you use if you have any choice in the matter.
650b is great to have smaller rubber that is the same size as the much fatter knobby dirt rubber. Doing so preserves the bike geometry that would be affected by a smaller 26" tire. If you want to run 32mm~42mm tires they are ideal. For paved and gravel roads they are awesome.
If I was spending money I would go 650b. 26" tires are a dime a dozen in the used market, you can always pick another set of those for dirt cheap.
650b is great to have smaller rubber that is the same size as the much fatter knobby dirt rubber. Doing so preserves the bike geometry that would be affected by a smaller 26" tire. If you want to run 32mm~42mm tires they are ideal. For paved and gravel roads they are awesome.
If I was spending money I would go 650b. 26" tires are a dime a dozen in the used market, you can always pick another set of those for dirt cheap.
09-19-23, 04:50 PM
#4
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I found half a dozen or so tires for 590mm pretty easily. Some seemed nice quality. If I go 590mm then I will replace both. If I went 650b, then I might have to do the front for now.
09-19-23, 05:55 PM
#5
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The rim difference is so small that I would make my decision strictly on tire selection. If it is easier for you to find 650b/27.5" tires then I would go with that.
09-19-23, 06:40 PM
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If I have this right, you're looking at $120 - $175 to replace the rims on the Raleigh. Is that right? That's a lot of money to throw at a basic, post-war Raleigh Sports. Doing a rim replacement or wheel build for a basic, post-war Sports isn't bad if you're doing it yourself and sharp about getting parts at a good price, but you're throwing a lot of money at such a bike if you're paying retail for the parts and labor on top. I've been happy with Panaracer, Michelin, and Schwalbe tires for the 650A size. I'd say get yourself a good set of tires and ride on before dumping that kind of money into wheels for a basic, post-war type Sports.
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09-19-23, 07:13 PM
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Where did you find the 590mm tires? I only find Kenda which I use only because I can find no others.
09-19-23, 07:18 PM
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I've been very curious about these Grand Bois tires in 590mm: https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/T650_A_F32_SS.html. Not quite curious enough to actually buy them, however.
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09-19-23, 07:35 PM
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I've been very curious about these Grand Bois tires in 590mm: https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/T650_A_F32_SS.html. Not quite curious enough to actually buy them, however.
09-19-23, 07:37 PM
#10
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I've been very curious about these Grand Bois tires in 590mm: https://cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/T650_A_F32_SS.html. Not quite curious enough to actually buy them, however.
09-19-23, 07:41 PM
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Uh, 27.5" tires are actually 650B/584mm. Not sure where you're getting your info.
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09-19-23, 07:43 PM
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590 is not 27.5 in the u.s. 590 is 26" three speed bike. 27.5 is 584 bsd. Confusing I know.
09-19-23, 08:06 PM
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q8GY68...language=en_US
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09-19-23, 09:10 PM
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Panaracer "Col de la Vie" tires are available in 590mm (650A) BSD:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q8GY68...language=en_US
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q8GY68...language=en_US
09-19-23, 10:30 PM
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09-19-23, 10:30 PM
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OP says his spokes are shot. So that rules out 590 tires, IMO.
I'm riding with 46/ 19T, 47.7 > 66.4 > 84.7. Middle goes 10 to 16 mph. It's unrideable on the highway any other way. IMO.
My SA 5w is the equivalent of 46/ 18T, in the middle 3 gears.
That's what my 1973 CCM had when I bought it in 2017 for $173, to get the spotless handlebar actually. The old tires were about 29 mm. The bike had NO rust and was in great shape with a rattlecan yellow recoat, except the co-op did F all to grease it up. Wheels barely turned when I got it. I replaced the tubes right off.
At the time I wanted to get rid of my defaileur bike for $110.
So I decided to go with a new X-RD3 hub and 584 Dyad rims. The only good tire I found was SMP 38s. So the rim got 2 lbs lighter and the tires got 2 lbs heavier. LOL. I wore out the 40 yo front tire 1930 miles before I rebuilt it with the awesome front hub with 1/4" balls. It's FAR better than the POS I had on the same year's Raleigh 5d.
It has 6,610 miles and many people say great bike, so a good investment. The new rear has 6,000 and the new front has 4,680. I've done 4 centuries on it just fine. It rolls just as nice as my other roadster/ tour bikes. Even on my hilly out west rides to the lake, it was very little less capable. Just waggle more.
The alu front rim actually does WORSE with the lousy calipers, in the 95% dry conditions I ride. It's my spring puddle go to.
I still have my old rear wheel intact. The spokes are galvanized I think.
Weird how the TT looks like it slopes down to the front. The fenders are the BEST ever put on a bike.
I also got rid of the clamp contraption holding the front of the rack.
The brakes aren't half as good as my XL drums on both wheels.
This is the bike I took on top of my car for a 2 month trip in 2019. The rain rusted the chain good.
Before with the valve placed wrong on both wheels, WTF >>>
Then after, without stem upgrades I have now.
I'm riding with 46/ 19T, 47.7 > 66.4 > 84.7. Middle goes 10 to 16 mph. It's unrideable on the highway any other way. IMO.
My SA 5w is the equivalent of 46/ 18T, in the middle 3 gears.
That's what my 1973 CCM had when I bought it in 2017 for $173, to get the spotless handlebar actually. The old tires were about 29 mm. The bike had NO rust and was in great shape with a rattlecan yellow recoat, except the co-op did F all to grease it up. Wheels barely turned when I got it. I replaced the tubes right off.
At the time I wanted to get rid of my defaileur bike for $110.
So I decided to go with a new X-RD3 hub and 584 Dyad rims. The only good tire I found was SMP 38s. So the rim got 2 lbs lighter and the tires got 2 lbs heavier. LOL. I wore out the 40 yo front tire 1930 miles before I rebuilt it with the awesome front hub with 1/4" balls. It's FAR better than the POS I had on the same year's Raleigh 5d.
It has 6,610 miles and many people say great bike, so a good investment. The new rear has 6,000 and the new front has 4,680. I've done 4 centuries on it just fine. It rolls just as nice as my other roadster/ tour bikes. Even on my hilly out west rides to the lake, it was very little less capable. Just waggle more.
The alu front rim actually does WORSE with the lousy calipers, in the 95% dry conditions I ride. It's my spring puddle go to.
I still have my old rear wheel intact. The spokes are galvanized I think.
Weird how the TT looks like it slopes down to the front. The fenders are the BEST ever put on a bike.
I also got rid of the clamp contraption holding the front of the rack.
The brakes aren't half as good as my XL drums on both wheels.
This is the bike I took on top of my car for a 2 month trip in 2019. The rain rusted the chain good.
Before with the valve placed wrong on both wheels, WTF >>>
Then after, without stem upgrades I have now.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 09-20-23 at 10:28 PM.
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09-20-23, 11:24 AM
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Are the rims still good @RootbeerRaleigh ? If the rims are good and relatively rust free, then you could replace the nipples. Most nipples are brass, but I think Raleigh used to make steel ones. Could someone confirm or deny that?
For me, and keep in mind my values and resources may be different from yours, I would first replace the nipples if that was the problem. If it is the rim, I would replace the rim. Yes, it is true, my favorited CR18 rim seems to be unavailable in the 26" x 1-3/8" size now. Rims are hard to find in this size nowadays. You may need a 32 hole rim and 40 hole rim for your bike. If you are getting new rims, you will have to check this.
Lot of members here like to site the relative lack of abundance of tire in both 26" x 1-3/8" and 27" x 1-1/4" size as a reason for switching wheel sizes. But as long as you can find a tire that meets your needs and budget, you are set.
I happen to like the 26" x 1-3/8" tire size and see no reason to switch on a bike that already has that size. If you cannot source the rims in the US, and I know it may be hard, other countries did not abandon the size. Particularly Japan, Holland and the UK. You can try SJS Cycles if all US sources come up empty;. SJS Cycles 590 rims
Tires are easier to find the US. I have Schwalbe Delta Cruisers. They seem to be available in the US and there are other choices as others have pointed out.
For me, and keep in mind my values and resources may be different from yours, I would first replace the nipples if that was the problem. If it is the rim, I would replace the rim. Yes, it is true, my favorited CR18 rim seems to be unavailable in the 26" x 1-3/8" size now. Rims are hard to find in this size nowadays. You may need a 32 hole rim and 40 hole rim for your bike. If you are getting new rims, you will have to check this.
Lot of members here like to site the relative lack of abundance of tire in both 26" x 1-3/8" and 27" x 1-1/4" size as a reason for switching wheel sizes. But as long as you can find a tire that meets your needs and budget, you are set.
I happen to like the 26" x 1-3/8" tire size and see no reason to switch on a bike that already has that size. If you cannot source the rims in the US, and I know it may be hard, other countries did not abandon the size. Particularly Japan, Holland and the UK. You can try SJS Cycles if all US sources come up empty;. SJS Cycles 590 rims
Tires are easier to find the US. I have Schwalbe Delta Cruisers. They seem to be available in the US and there are other choices as others have pointed out.
Last edited by Velo Mule; 09-20-23 at 02:07 PM.
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09-20-23, 01:40 PM
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Bell Sports Flat Defense (folding) - my local Walmart has these on the shelf. Otherwise, Amazon
Bontrager T1 - your Trek house LBS can get you these
Evo Dash
Goodyear Road (folding)
Kenda K40
Kenda K803
Panaracer Col de Vie/Randonnée
Raleigh T1429
Schwalbe Delta Cruiser
Schwalbe Marathon
Schwalbe Marathon Plus
Specialized RoadSport - your Specialized house LBS can get you these
Sunlight Nimbus
Bontrager T1 - your Trek house LBS can get you these
Evo Dash
Goodyear Road (folding)
Kenda K40
Kenda K803
Panaracer Col de Vie/Randonnée
Raleigh T1429
Schwalbe Delta Cruiser
Schwalbe Marathon
Schwalbe Marathon Plus
Specialized RoadSport - your Specialized house LBS can get you these
Sunlight Nimbus
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09-20-23, 01:47 PM
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Save the 26 x 1 3/8!
Contact:
Hayes Performance Systems
5800 W Donges Bay Rd
Mequon WI 53092
888-686-3472
https://hayesperformance.com/about/contact/
and ask them to return the SunRingle ISO590 CR18 rim to production in 32-, 36- and 40-spoke hole.
Do it today!
Contact:
Hayes Performance Systems
5800 W Donges Bay Rd
Mequon WI 53092
888-686-3472
https://hayesperformance.com/about/contact/
and ask them to return the SunRingle ISO590 CR18 rim to production in 32-, 36- and 40-spoke hole.
Do it today!
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09-20-23, 02:12 PM
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There are many more 650B tires available in NA now than 26 x 1 3/8 tires. Most 650B tires offered will be too wide for the frame, brakes and/or fenders on a bike that was designed for 26 x 1 3/8. Offerings in ISO37x584mm - is it actually any better than in ISO37x590mm?
ISO584mm rims...in 40-spoke hole? Bueller? Bueller?
I wouldn't mind if ISO584 was the answer - I'm just unconvinced it is.
ISO584mm rims...in 40-spoke hole? Bueller? Bueller?
I wouldn't mind if ISO584 was the answer - I'm just unconvinced it is.
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09-21-23, 01:14 PM
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I agree with the above. I think 650A / 590mm offers enough in the way of tires to be workable.
The Sun rims (no longer made) were decent replacements. I am still running original Raleigh or Dunlop 650A rims on my English bikes, which have worked fine for me.
The Sun rims (no longer made) were decent replacements. I am still running original Raleigh or Dunlop 650A rims on my English bikes, which have worked fine for me.
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09-22-23, 10:43 AM
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09-22-23, 03:02 PM
#23
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RootbeerRaleigh I sent you a private message regarding a nice vintage 26 1 3/8" / 650A wheelset I have for sale, with free tire.
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Check out www.djcatnap.com for articles on vintage Japanese & French bicycle restorations, components and history.
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09-23-23, 04:47 AM
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I laced up a pair (my first ever!) of 650A wheels back in my poorer days as a budget way to see if I would like 650B, which at that time were $$$ (still are, I'm just a little less broke now). Used the Panaracer Col de la Vie 650A 38s. The Sun rims I bought were a bear to seat tires on (a tad oversize) but I heard that was a batch problem. Even better, it looks like you can get some Araya rims from Merry Sales for not too much scratch. The tires were great; basically just smaller diameter Paselas.
If I had a bike built around 650A (English three speed or the like) I wouldn't hesitate to build up another wheelset like this. If I were concerning a bike and could choose the size, 650B is the better choice.
If I had a bike built around 650A (English three speed or the like) I wouldn't hesitate to build up another wheelset like this. If I were concerning a bike and could choose the size, 650B is the better choice.
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09-23-23, 08:28 AM
#25
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I laced up a pair (my first ever!) of 650A wheels back in my poorer days as a budget way to see if I would like 650B, which at that time were $$$ (still are, I'm just a little less broke now). Used the Panaracer Col de la Vie 650A 38s. The Sun rims I bought were a bear to seat tires on (a tad oversize) but I heard that was a batch problem. Even better, it looks like you can get some Araya rims from Merry Sales for not too much scratch. The tires were great; basically just smaller diameter Paselas.
If I had a bike built around 650A (English three speed or the like) I wouldn't hesitate to build up another wheelset like this. If I were concerning a bike and could choose the size, 650B is the better choice.
If I had a bike built around 650A (English three speed or the like) I wouldn't hesitate to build up another wheelset like this. If I were concerning a bike and could choose the size, 650B is the better choice.
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