Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

At what point does a crit racer want a more aero bike?

Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

At what point does a crit racer want a more aero bike?

Old 07-25-18, 11:53 AM
  #1  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 455 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 33 Posts
At what point does a crit racer want a more aero bike?

I'm on the 105 version of the supersix (not the hi-mod). It's been a good bike for me. But the fame is not aero. It's a bit heavy. And it has a cable housing birds nest on the front.

If you read from some of these experts, they say how aero your bike is can be a bike length in a sprint.

I've actually got my eye on the specialized allez sprint. Relatively cheap bike, cleaner, aluminum, more aero.

I brought this question up over a year ago, and I was told to keep on with the supersix and not sweat this. I've got a friend on an older supersix (he's a breakaway guy) and he does well.
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 12:36 PM
  #2  
furiousferret
Senior Member
 
furiousferret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times in 250 Posts
IMO there's a lot more things you can clean up in a crit to make things faster. The kit and positioning on the bike is probably the biggest one. The aero advantage also comes into play very little, but it does in the sprint which you will get a few inches.

The big detractor of aero bikes for me is the cost penalty. Many seem to cost a fair bit more just for being more aero. That's why a lot of crit racers don't use them, its not as practical to spend $1000 more on a frame, especially working under the assumption of destroying one in a crash. IMO the best way to go is aero bars and wheels.

I couldn't find the white paper, but this is from Cervelo after they put out the S5 which shows the aero breakdown of each part on the bike:

Seatpost: 1 percent
Rear brake: 2 percent
Front brake: 3 percent
Rear Wheel: 5 percent
Drivetrain: 9 percent
Bottle: 9 percent
Fork: 9 percent
Frame: 16 percent
Front wheel: 16 percent
Handlebar: 30 percent

Also bear in mind there isn't much opportunity to lose much watts on some of those parts. My guess is the difference between forks, seats, and bottles, are either minimal or there are reasons to not pay attention (i.e. gaining 1 watt and losing seat comfort).

If I were to buy a full on crit bike I'd probably go with an Allez Sprint 1x11 with 60mm deep wheels and aero bars.

Last edited by furiousferret; 07-25-18 at 12:48 PM.
furiousferret is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 12:58 PM
  #3  
TheKillerPenguin
Nonsense
 
TheKillerPenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 13,918

Bikes: Affirmative

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 541 Times in 237 Posts
I think it matters enough to factor it in when you're looking to buy a new bike, but not so much that you should stop riding a bike you're already happy with.

I will say that I am on an aero bike and love it, and still dream about an Allez Sprint. Such a nice frame...
TheKillerPenguin is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 01:09 PM
  #4  
aplcr0331
Hear myself getting fat
 
aplcr0331's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 759

Bikes: Sir Velo A Sparrow

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 265 Times in 134 Posts
I bought the Allez Sprint Comp because it seemed like the nicest bike (that I liked the looks of) I could afford. I have no ideas of the aero'ness of the bike but I sure do enjoy riding it. I added some aeor bars and I do like the relatively clean look on the front. I was hoping for the Blue one, but they were sold out so I had to settle for the orange-'ish yellow-ey orange tinted yellow one.

Great bike.

Again I bought the bike because I like the shape and lines of it. I'm no crit racer or a road racer although I do participate in races from time to time. The limiter in my case is and will always be ME.

I would think any reason, and I mean ANY reason is good enough to get a new bike. And go with aero, I think they look pretty cool.

Last edited by aplcr0331; 07-25-18 at 03:09 PM.
aplcr0331 is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 01:26 PM
  #5  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
I think it matters enough to factor it in when you're looking to buy a new bike, but not so much that you should stop riding a bike you're already happy with.
This.

If, and this is a big IF, you are maxing out your training and potential, and you are coming up just inches short in all your races, then yes, maybe it would be worthwhile to look into improving aerodynamics of your equipment.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 02:29 PM
  #6  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
I got an aero bike (Felt AR 5) three years ago for 1500 bucks on ebay, new. I then got aero handlebars and even an aero front brake (tririg). Then I got aero wheels last year.

I also built up a Chinese bike which is all pretty regular tubing and the like, though I put the aero wheels and an aero Zipp SL bar on it. I ended up switching back to my aero bike in May. It was just faster. Both subjectively and qualitatively with speed and power.

Now I just race on that.

I wouldn't just up and get a new bike purely for that, but if I were looking at a new bike, I'd definitely go aero if speed is your concern. (edit: what TPK said).
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 04:09 PM
  #7  
spectastic
commu*ist spy
 
spectastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,459
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
the allez sprint lets you basically switch the shifter cables so that there's less cable housing bend in the front, because the BB portion easily lets you cross the cables back to their correct ports. however, has anyone actually seen wind tunnel data that tests the allez sprint? specialized say it's just as aero as their old venge (of course they would say something like that). where's the data? i can see the attraction though. it's a good looking frame. I'm just skeptical that all these bike manufacturers all claim their product is the best. it's BS

I don't believe my caad9 frame limited me in any way. After I totaled my bike, I went on craigslist and got a felt 3c frame, which was relatively cheap, and it does the job well enough. the next race bike will likely have disc brakes on it.

I never was able to test an aero bike vs a non-aero bike, all other things constant. it's very difficult.. the most important thing is probably the geometry and fit. you'd get a bigger aero gain going from 44 cm bars to 40 or 38, than spending $1.5k on a pair of zipps. that's the sad thing I see people do. They roll around in wheels that cost more than all my bikes combined, and they're wearing non aero helmets, with upright bike fits.
spectastic is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 05:20 PM
  #8  
Ygduf
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
probably right around 24mph
Ygduf is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 05:27 PM
  #9  
spdntrxi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East Bay Area ,CA
Posts: 1,762

Bikes: not enough

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 52 Posts
if you like to be OTF... then yeah aero will help.
spdntrxi is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 08:05 PM
  #10  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
duh. Trick question. The answer is immediately after you're beaten by someone on one.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-25-18, 09:24 PM
  #11  
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,402
Mentioned: 151 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1099 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 30 Posts
Originally Posted by furiousferret
IMO there's a lot more things you can clean up in a crit to make things faster. The kit and positioning on the bike is probably the biggest one. The aero advantage also comes into play very little, but it does in the sprint which you will get a few inches.
yup
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 10:15 AM
  #12  
Radish_legs
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Radish_legs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 998
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 455 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 33 Posts
Is there a certain # of miles on a carbon frame that you start to consider selling the bike, or otherwise getting a new bike?
Radish_legs is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 10:26 AM
  #13  
akdmx
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by furiousferret
...
I couldn't find the white paper, but this is from Cervelo after they put out the S5 which shows the aero breakdown of each part on the bike:

...
Handlebar: 30 percent

...
That's news to me
akdmx is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 10:26 AM
  #14  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
41,000
topflightpro is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 10:51 AM
  #15  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by topflightpro
41,000
nice
MDcatV is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 01:41 PM
  #16  
redlude97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,764
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1975 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 173 Posts
Originally Posted by akdmx
That's news to me
they are the widest part of the frame
redlude97 is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 03:39 PM
  #17  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,444

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2622 Post(s)
Liked 1,429 Times in 711 Posts
Originally Posted by spectastic
. you'd get a bigger aero gain going from 44 cm bars to 40 or 38, than spending $1.5k on a pair of zipps. that's the sad thing I see people do. They roll around in wheels that cost more than all my bikes combined, and they're wearing non aero helmets, with upright bike fits.
That's why I roll with 38cm bars.

Nah, the saddest thing people do is get those $2000 Zipps or $3000 Enves and then put gatorskins on them. Eureka!
rubiksoval is offline  
Old 07-26-18, 04:09 PM
  #18  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Placid, NY
Posts: 21,441
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 912 Post(s)
Liked 752 Times in 342 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
That's why I roll with 38cm bars.

Nah, the saddest thing people do is get those $2000 Zipps or $3000 Enves and then put gatorskins on them. Eureka!
I totally saw that in Montreal last week
gsteinb is offline  
Old 07-28-18, 06:24 PM
  #19  
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,945

Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times in 19 Posts
Get a bike that fits for a crit. Make it feel like an extension of your body. You should feel free to throw it around and know how it will react. That is more important than being aero.
mollusk is offline  
Old 07-28-18, 06:40 PM
  #20  
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,945

Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
That's why I roll with 38cm bars.

Nah, the saddest thing people do is get those $2000 Zipps or $3000 Enves and then put gatorskins on them. Eureka!
I have a pair of 65mm Edge (now Enve) tubular wheels that I haven't ridden since I stopped racing and I only bought them because I was racing on a team sponsored by them and I got them at cost.

I have to say they are really nice wheels.

Great wheels to ride on, probably helped a bit in time trials, but never made any difference to me in a crit or a road race compared to the other wheels I raced.

I should probably sell them.
mollusk is offline  
Old 07-29-18, 04:37 AM
  #21  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
Originally Posted by mollusk
I have a pair of 65mm Edge (now Enve) tubular wheels that I haven't ridden since I stopped racing and I only bought them because I was racing on a team sponsored by them and I got them at cost.

I have to say they are really nice wheels.

Great wheels to ride on, probably helped a bit in time trials, but never made any difference to me in a crit or a road race compared to the other wheels I raced.

I should probably sell them.
I'm in the same boat with some Zipp 404s. They are still in great shape, but the price of 404 tubulars has fallen so much, I'm not sure it's worth my effort to sell them, especially cause I could use them again in the future. I think.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 08-01-18, 11:12 AM
  #22  
Ygduf
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Ygduf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 10,978

Bikes: aggressive agreement is what I ride.

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 967 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by topflightpro
41,000
dang

Ygduf is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jarrett2
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
28
08-03-15 12:45 PM
Dbarkertarmac
Road Cycling
168
08-19-11 12:46 PM
captnfantastic
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
102
06-18-11 01:10 PM
StanSeven
Road Cycling
28
03-08-11 08:06 PM
Inertianinja
Road Cycling
24
08-27-10 10:12 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.