tonyfourdogs

Hi folks

I recently picked up a Dawes Super Galaxy 531 from my local recycle centre. It's in pretty bad shape, and I had already decided the frame was beyond redemption because of the rust on the drive side chain stay. But curiosity got me brushing away at the rust to take a closer look, and it's not as bad as I thought.

But...

I don't want to ride a bike that isn't safe, but I don't know how to tell when a frame is beyond redemption. I've done a fair bit of internet searching, but I can't find any relevant info.

Any suggestions? (I can post pics if you want to see)

Thanks

horatio 

Pics would help. Just sayin'...

tonyfourdogs

Haha, yeah, sorry. Attached (only the chain stay has visible rust, and check out those fancy lugs)



Chainstay



Purrrty!

horatio 

Looks gnarly to me. I'd sand off the rust to bare metal and check for deep pitting, but can't advise how deep would be acceptable. If the rust has eaten through most of the steel, I'd say forget it. Chainstay could be replaced, if the frame is otherwise a keeper. Interested to hear from those more learned on the subject.

Thanks for posting!

tonyfourdogs

Thanks for your input. I agree, but have no idea how thick the steel should be on the chainstay. Also interested to know the thoughts of more experienced folks

SurferRosa

The thing you have going for you here is that the Galaxy's rear triangle is really beefy. Only the main triangle is db531. (Not sure about the fork.)

But, unless you have a pile of parts and wheelsets on hand, it probably won't be worth it to build up this frame. I'd clean it up and just display it until you find a donor bike or can otherwise justify further investment.

ironwood

One way to remove rust is to soak the bike in a dilute solution of oxalic acid. There have been a number of threads about this technique on this forum. Perhaps you can use the search function to find them.

Last ride 76 

remove the rust using wire brush and your choice of chemical assists.
Without understanding how much good steel is left, hard to say. If it bends, or folds up from hands alone, only option is repacement.

tonyfourdogs

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have a pile of parts on hand and a rebuild might be a way to distract myself from work for a good while (I'm always up for that!)

Thanks - I've heard of the oxalic acid bath method, but I've got nowhere safe to set it up, so it's manual rust treatments only for me. The closest I've been able to get to that method is wrapping a frame in rags soaked with acid which works fairly well, but generally needs to be repeated 2-3 times which is a massive pain in the bum.

I'll have to give it some thought as to how much time it's worth I guess.

scarlson 

My favorite trick is wire wheel on an angle grinder. It makes short work of old British rust and older British paint. A wire wheel on a drill also works but the drill motor isn't as fast and the handle isn't so ergonomic for this job.

In my experience drilling holes in frames, cracking frames, and brazing frames back together, based on that photo I'd bet you'll be fine. 531 or not, chainstays are really thick-walled. If something does happen, it'll probably be a slow crack starting. So inspect the area early and often. Initial inspection would indeed benefit from a rust removal so you can see any cracks that might be starting, and how deep any pits go. Other than that, I would wholeheartedly enjoy this ride, and once it wins your trust you can probably inspect it less-often.

bikemig 

Yeah there are a few but I wish we had a master thread or even a sticky on this. There are ways this can go wrong.

This is one of the better how to threads I've read:

https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=351132

I think you're suggestion is spot on. If there is this much rust on the outside, there is bound to be rust on the inside. This bike likely needs an OA bath.

merziac

Any, that being said, this is pretty extreme and will require some consideration, the OA bath is needed to stop or at least slow down whats inside.

Then you will need to decide where you want the outside to end up, regardless you should stop it on the outside as well.

tonyfourdogs

Thanks again everyone. I'm always really impressed with the helpfulness of this community. Hopefully I'll learn enough one day to be able to pass some of this on myself...

I hadn't even considered the rust on the inside.... Maybe it's time to find a big-ass plastic container with a lid then... I definitely need something dog-proof. If anyone has any suggestions (this is, of course, a 25" frame...) for something I can get in the UK, I'd really appreciate it. Time to hit Amazon search I guess.

merziac

Kiddie swim pool with plywood for a lid.

Bad Lag

I will not claim to have a good sense of the condition from the photos. However, I'd say take it for a bumpy ride. If it breaks, so be it. If it doesn't break (and I don't think it will), treat it and get it re-painted.

Treatment could be oxalic acid, wire brush, ... whatever. Maybe use the Bondo sealer (not the filler, the red sealer) to smoothe the surface. It might be that an automotive primer/filler will be all you need.

You see, I think the bike is structurally sound. I'd look forward to using it and riding it.

I would paint it, myself. That would reduce the monetary investment and would provide a VERY nice paint job. The quality of the finish is almost completely determined by the quality of the surface prep and sanding. That gloss overcoat is just the icing on the cake.

gaucho777 

Coincidentally, I've just finished giving oxalic acid baths to several of my frames which I've neglected (put away wet and let to rust). I have some experience with OA baths. For this latest round (3 frames in 3 days), I built a simple frame using some wood on hand, some L-brackets bent to the required angles, then lined with large trash bags and a shower curtain, topped with plywood and heavy rocks (I also have pets). I think this is the best way to go. The frame and shower curtain can be broken down, stored easily, and were less than $15 total. I use ~1 tablespoon of OA powder (wood bleach) per gallon of water, an let it soak about 24 hours, depending on how bad the rust is. The "kiddie pools" are fine but they use require a lot more volume than the frame-shaped coffin box. The end product is a grimy yellow liquid, which you should neutralize using baking soda.

Johno59

Wow, there is nothing to worry about there. Wire wheel it. Wire will not remove any good steel. After that lightly sand it, clean with solvent, rust converter, sand again, prime coat it, paint/clear coat and then polish, Good for another 50 years.

Murray Missile 

Agreed, as a life long native of the "Rust Belt" that surface rust wouldn't scare me a bit and I've lost more cars and trucks to rust than most of you have probably owned. How much rust was on the bottom inside the bottom bracket shell? That would give some idea if there is rust inside the stays. I've torn down old bikes that were solid rust on the outside but looked factory fresh inside. If the inside of the BB shell is clean or just has some light rust it would be very doubtful the stays are rusted inside, that frame will probably outlast a couple generations if properly cared for.

TropicStudios

Yep, a wire brush and some elbow grease and you should be able to get the surface rust out.

Johno59

That rust is 116 years old. Two speed Sunbeam direct drive.


116 year old rust is hard to come by. I decided to preserve it for prosperity. Clear coated it for my grandchildren and added 22 more gears for the Jazz.

tonyfourdogs

I had no idea I would encounter so much expertise in rust here. Thanks for all your replies!

Phil_gretz

I have done the exact same thing. I bought a scrap 3/4" plywood piece and several "L brackets" bent the brackets to the approximate frame angles. I ripped the plywood to 9" widths and cut the sides to contain a 58 cm frame with a bit of margin. For a liner, I bought four square yards of pool/pond liner from a home improvement store. This set up can be covered with a sheet of plywood for safety, although I have neither kids at home nor dogs. I do the soaking in my garage (out of direct sunlight). Simple and easy to use.

It's easy to store the frame by hanging it on a utility wall or stacking it on an upper shelf. The liner folds to 12" x 12" by 6" pretty easily.

Kabuki12

I just finished earlier this year one of the rustiest resurrections I have ever done. A 1972 ItalVega. I bought it for $100 figuring the Campy stuff was worth it. I ended up spending about a year off and on getting the rust off with various grades of steel wool.Lots of luck , Joe
With Rust!!


Bike is now presentable with patina

79pmooney

How much rust is too much?

There is a place where rust is good (and it involves steel tubes, though we tend to call them "pipes" - plumbing. I grew up in a house with a deep well drilled into granite. Our water tasted of rust. (Except for that, it was great drinking water. Radically better tasting than city water.) We stayed healthy. Then my sis moved to another big city. After a time was diagnosed as anemic. Proof, rust can be good! (You could plumb your water bottles to run through the frame and get some of the same benefit. )

Johno59

Wow! That is a sweet bike. Old too cool for school.