Energy for a long ride
10-07-18, 04:59 PM
#1
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Energy for a long ride
Does anyone else load up on protein (peanut butter w/o sugar, hard boiled eggs and yogurt before a long ride. I also carry peanut butter with me along the ride. If I take carbs...even a little...I seem to have low blood sugar very rapidly.
Mike Adams
Mike Adams
10-07-18, 06:44 PM
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I've had low blood sugar problems since childhood and have tried various methods. Looking back, most of it was due to poor diet. With a more contemporary approach suggested by many nutritionists, doctors and trainers, I've been able to ride harder, longer, with a reasonably normal diet by adjusting the timing to suit my workout goals.
And I've cut out most junk carbs the past few months. Almost no cookies, muffins, etc. No beer in almost 3 months -- I didn't drink much, but even a beer a day was contributing a lot of junk carbs that I wasn't burning off effectively with extra cycling or workouts.
Opinions and experiences vary on the timing of protein consumption. Some folks say consuming too much protein before and during a ride or any hard workout can divert our body toward digesting and interfere with the energy needed to ride. That conventional wisdom says the time to consume extra protein is immediately after a workout, or at normal meal times outside of strenuous or long rides.
This year I've tried intermittent fasting on non-workout days (often 12 hours between the final meal of the day and first meal of the next day), and fasting rides and indoor workouts. I was surprised to discover I didn't experience any blood sugar bonks. The trick was to stick to a very moderate effort ride or indoor workout for about an hour or so and encourage the body to metabolize body fat. Seems to work. I've lost some fat around the middle and dropped from 34 to 30 waist jeans for the first time since I was in my 20s.
Some practitioners of fasting rides will compromise on small breakfasts containing little or no sugar and carbs: one or two eggs, bacon, black coffee, etc. I've done that as well and had no problems. Some folks may experience digestive problems with fatty bacon, acidic black coffee, etc., so it's a very personal thing.
During longer or harder rides I've avoided high protein snacks and supplements, such as the protein bars I used to carry. I just use gels and drink plenty of water (usually with electrolytes). Most of the gels and nutrition bars I eat use less simple sugar and more sugar alcohols (typically mannitol, xylitol, erythritol, sorbitol, or maltitol). Some folks report digestion problems, headaches and other issues with sugar alcohols but I've been okay with 'em. Takes a little experimenting to see what works.
If I do eat a protein supplement bar it's after at least an hour of riding, during a rest break. Same with protein supplement shakes and smoothies -- usually after a workout. I prefer whey protein. The legume based stuff gives me turbocharged gas, which would be unpleasant for folks behind me in group rides.
Over the summer I had a fairly serious relapse of an longstanding thyroid problem that interfered with swallowing solid foods. I switched to smoothies and protein supplement shakes, oatmeal, yogurt, etc. Those were nutritious enough but contained a lot of sugars. Often fruit was the only source of sugar and carbs, but it was enough to interfere with my other goal of metabolizing body fat. So my efforts to lose belly fat stalled. No big deal, my priority was fixing the thyroid problem since I had too little energy to work out like I was accustomed to. But it reinforced the fairly well established principle in nutrition that the main enemy is sugar, not dietary "fat". Sugar doesn't seem to cause much, or any, harm when consumed appropriately as fuel for physical activity.
But it's a delicate balancing act. I was drinking a pitcher of fruit smoothies with protein and nutrient supplements a day and not working out hard enough, or at all some days, so I actually regained 2-3 lbs of belly fat. I was surprised how quickly the belly fat can be lost and re-accumulate. It's been an interesting experiment in testing contemporary nutrition theories for athletes and normally active folks.
And I've cut out most junk carbs the past few months. Almost no cookies, muffins, etc. No beer in almost 3 months -- I didn't drink much, but even a beer a day was contributing a lot of junk carbs that I wasn't burning off effectively with extra cycling or workouts.
Opinions and experiences vary on the timing of protein consumption. Some folks say consuming too much protein before and during a ride or any hard workout can divert our body toward digesting and interfere with the energy needed to ride. That conventional wisdom says the time to consume extra protein is immediately after a workout, or at normal meal times outside of strenuous or long rides.
This year I've tried intermittent fasting on non-workout days (often 12 hours between the final meal of the day and first meal of the next day), and fasting rides and indoor workouts. I was surprised to discover I didn't experience any blood sugar bonks. The trick was to stick to a very moderate effort ride or indoor workout for about an hour or so and encourage the body to metabolize body fat. Seems to work. I've lost some fat around the middle and dropped from 34 to 30 waist jeans for the first time since I was in my 20s.
Some practitioners of fasting rides will compromise on small breakfasts containing little or no sugar and carbs: one or two eggs, bacon, black coffee, etc. I've done that as well and had no problems. Some folks may experience digestive problems with fatty bacon, acidic black coffee, etc., so it's a very personal thing.
During longer or harder rides I've avoided high protein snacks and supplements, such as the protein bars I used to carry. I just use gels and drink plenty of water (usually with electrolytes). Most of the gels and nutrition bars I eat use less simple sugar and more sugar alcohols (typically mannitol, xylitol, erythritol, sorbitol, or maltitol). Some folks report digestion problems, headaches and other issues with sugar alcohols but I've been okay with 'em. Takes a little experimenting to see what works.
If I do eat a protein supplement bar it's after at least an hour of riding, during a rest break. Same with protein supplement shakes and smoothies -- usually after a workout. I prefer whey protein. The legume based stuff gives me turbocharged gas, which would be unpleasant for folks behind me in group rides.
Over the summer I had a fairly serious relapse of an longstanding thyroid problem that interfered with swallowing solid foods. I switched to smoothies and protein supplement shakes, oatmeal, yogurt, etc. Those were nutritious enough but contained a lot of sugars. Often fruit was the only source of sugar and carbs, but it was enough to interfere with my other goal of metabolizing body fat. So my efforts to lose belly fat stalled. No big deal, my priority was fixing the thyroid problem since I had too little energy to work out like I was accustomed to. But it reinforced the fairly well established principle in nutrition that the main enemy is sugar, not dietary "fat". Sugar doesn't seem to cause much, or any, harm when consumed appropriately as fuel for physical activity.
But it's a delicate balancing act. I was drinking a pitcher of fruit smoothies with protein and nutrient supplements a day and not working out hard enough, or at all some days, so I actually regained 2-3 lbs of belly fat. I was surprised how quickly the belly fat can be lost and re-accumulate. It's been an interesting experiment in testing contemporary nutrition theories for athletes and normally active folks.
10-08-18, 04:29 AM
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If I've eaten normally(for me) I don't do anything particularly special before a ride.
Seems like I need to top up every 60-90 minutes(at the latest) regardless of prep.
If I know it's going to be several hours I try to eat maybe 20% or so more, that's about it.
I can deal with (very) sugary energy bars, but prefer the ones with a slower release. Usually bring some gels or high-concentration energy drink in case of bonking or for the very end of the ride.
To me, starting from "normal", the mid-ride snacks and post-ride replenishment seems to be more important than prep.
Those runny yoghurts meant for drinking seems to work well for recovery. Some sugar to perk up, some protein, and a fluid to boot, good stuff.
Seems like I need to top up every 60-90 minutes(at the latest) regardless of prep.
If I know it's going to be several hours I try to eat maybe 20% or so more, that's about it.
I can deal with (very) sugary energy bars, but prefer the ones with a slower release. Usually bring some gels or high-concentration energy drink in case of bonking or for the very end of the ride.
To me, starting from "normal", the mid-ride snacks and post-ride replenishment seems to be more important than prep.
Those runny yoghurts meant for drinking seems to work well for recovery. Some sugar to perk up, some protein, and a fluid to boot, good stuff.
10-09-18, 07:39 PM
#5
Senior Member
Canklecat, thanks for the details in your experience. It is enticing enough for me to follow suite and try it. This summer beer began to offend my taste buds and I no longer drink it, not that I drank it much anyway. Only a couple of times a summer, but no more. Wine sucks, so that sugar is not going to present itself. I have reduced my cola intake to once a week now, and will eventually get rid of it. Looking to see if I can lose the "dad gut" as my daughter calls it.
10-09-18, 07:48 PM
#7
Non omnino gravis
^^^ Indeed. Everybody has a different definition of "long ride."
Further, how do you know you have low blood sugar? Is it a feeling, or is some sort of metering device employed?
Further, how do you know you have low blood sugar? Is it a feeling, or is some sort of metering device employed?
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10-09-18, 07:48 PM
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I never "load up" before a ride. Or during a ride for that matter. What works is a slow steady intake of carbs. It works for everyone. By slow and steady, I mean a maximum of 1/4 of a Clif bar every 15 minutes. 1/8 of a bar is probably enough for many folks. That's "for example." 1/4 of a Clif bar is about 50 calories., so 25-50 calories of any kind of carbs, 4 X hour - something like that. What kind of carb makes no difference really. I prefer fast carbs, the faster the better, high GI in other words, though low GI works too, just not as well. Never eat just once an hour, or worse, even less often. Sports drinks work, too. Look at the label to see how much to drink.
For rides of under, say, 90 minutes, don't eat anything before or during. It's not necessary. It might take you some time to get used to that, but it's worth it.
For rides of under, say, 90 minutes, don't eat anything before or during. It's not necessary. It might take you some time to get used to that, but it's worth it.
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10-09-18, 07:53 PM
#9
Non omnino gravis
That advice is really only applicable to someone who is conditioned. The guy who has been riding a few times a week for a few months probably cannot just go out and ride 90 minutes without some method of monitoring his intensity. I know I couldn't. I didn't know any better, so I'd go all out and end up recovering off the bike for 2-3 days afterward. Once conditioned, everything changes. This morning I did 67 miles @ 20mph, and had street tacos for lunch at the 40 mile mark. Doesn't matter anymore. I could do it without eating. 100km at medium-high intensity on just water isn't that big a deal... for me. But I would never advise anyone else to copy what I do.
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10-09-18, 08:28 PM
#10
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I agree conditioning makes a big difference. I remember bonking on a 32 mile ride 5 years ago when I was just getting into this again. Now I can go do a similar ride without really worrying about what I’ve eaten or not eaten. My standard formula is oatmeal and a banana before a ride, one Clif bar after 30-40 miles, this is plenty for 60-some miles.
10-09-18, 08:43 PM
#11
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I did a solo 100+ mile last weekend with a mix of 50 miles "gravel" (or mud) and 50 miles asphalt. A bowl of fruit loops and coffee for breakfast, a foot long subway sub at the 25 mile point, several rice crispie treats in between and at the 75 mile point had two $1 menu McChicken sandwiches and a sweet tea. I probably could have just finished on treats but I needed a body break after exiting the trail portion and I saw a McDonald's so.. For me, it seems any food is fine but I do have to at least eat a decent amount, include some sugar and spread it around when it gets long. That was just over 7 hours riding with another hour not moving. My avg HR for the trip was 138 (78% theoretical max) so I wasn't fully pushing but not wandering along either.
My problem with long rides is hydration. It was 72 and cloudy for that ride and some humidity so that wasn't an issue that day. I tried this route last month when it was 95+ and tropical humid. Got to 80 miles and painfully limped slowly on a short cut another 8 with cramps. I've done quite a few 70-80 days this year with no problem but that one was brutal. My routine 40-50 mile rides, I do nothing but grab my bike, two bottles of fluid and go. I always have a snack in my frame bag no matter what but that is mainly an excuse to take a 5-10 minute break. I don't know the point of my story, I guess build up the ride length and eat/drink what works for you. Realize not every day is the same and not everyone has the same requirements and not everyone rides at the same intensity. There is no one right way.
My problem with long rides is hydration. It was 72 and cloudy for that ride and some humidity so that wasn't an issue that day. I tried this route last month when it was 95+ and tropical humid. Got to 80 miles and painfully limped slowly on a short cut another 8 with cramps. I've done quite a few 70-80 days this year with no problem but that one was brutal. My routine 40-50 mile rides, I do nothing but grab my bike, two bottles of fluid and go. I always have a snack in my frame bag no matter what but that is mainly an excuse to take a 5-10 minute break. I don't know the point of my story, I guess build up the ride length and eat/drink what works for you. Realize not every day is the same and not everyone has the same requirements and not everyone rides at the same intensity. There is no one right way.
Last edited by u235; 10-09-18 at 09:37 PM.
10-10-18, 12:07 AM
#12
Bad example
Hmm, for me it is more the electrolytes that keep me going. A Nuun tablet in a water bottle is a big help after 20 miles or so. But as many of you mentioned, I have to be sure not to eat too much, or the wrong stuff, during a ride. A few weeks back a friend and I stopped for a late lunch near the end of a ride, and we were SO dead for the last 400 feet or so of climbing afterwards.
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10-10-18, 05:38 AM
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127 easy miles, https://www.relive.cc/view/1887947568 , last Saturday on a couple of bananas, M&Ms, CrankSport gels and ClifShot 100mg caffeine ChocolateCherry gels, water with sliced lemon in one bottle and O'Doul's NA beer in 2nd water bottle, folded 8" tortillas with peanut butter/strawberry preserves, couple of NutterButter, Medjool dates/peanut butter.
127 easy miles, https://www.relive.cc/view/1854645618 , a couple weeks earlier same stuff
207 miler in August and 169 miler for 68th birthday ride in July I added oatmeal breakfast before heading out and back at home after first 80 mile segment egg/cheese on muffin also some Mtn. Dew and on the 207 I stopped at Wendy's at 170 for baked potato and Frosty plus Coke.
127 easy miles, https://www.relive.cc/view/1854645618 , a couple weeks earlier same stuff
207 miler in August and 169 miler for 68th birthday ride in July I added oatmeal breakfast before heading out and back at home after first 80 mile segment egg/cheese on muffin also some Mtn. Dew and on the 207 I stopped at Wendy's at 170 for baked potato and Frosty plus Coke.
10-10-18, 10:06 AM
#14
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Really interesting what everyone eats on long rides. I went 120 miles and concentrated on hard boiled eggs, peatnut butter with out the sugar. Water with pickle juice in it. Almost no carbs. Averaged 12 mph. Almost no carbs. Felt good. If I stick to mostly carbs my ride is not good. Very little energy and I struggle.
10-10-18, 01:33 PM
#15
Non omnino gravis
My god, I love whenever @OldTryGuy posts a ReLive. Those route traces are BONKERS. And 127 miles with 115ft? Amazing. I make a determined effort to keep my rides above 100 miles flatter, meaning only 2,500-3,500ft of elevation. Sometimes it works.
I did 3,000 feet in 30 miles this morning. I feel like Florida is some sort of mythical land.
I did 3,000 feet in 30 miles this morning. I feel like Florida is some sort of mythical land.
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10-10-18, 02:27 PM
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I like to get a good solid breakfast the day of the ride, covering carbs, protein, and etc.
I do like to stop every 30 to 50 miles or so to get a few extra calories, often carbs which tend to be rejuvenating.
On my last ride, about 40 miles into the ride, I stopped at a state park where they happened to be doing fresh pressed Apple Cider for $5 per half gallon (run by the park rangers). I was going to just get one water bottle filled, but decided to just get them both filled, fresh out of the press.. Then slowly diluted one of them as I drank and refilled the bottle.
I tend to like to carry some salami, cheese, and cookies.
I do like to stop every 30 to 50 miles or so to get a few extra calories, often carbs which tend to be rejuvenating.
On my last ride, about 40 miles into the ride, I stopped at a state park where they happened to be doing fresh pressed Apple Cider for $5 per half gallon (run by the park rangers). I was going to just get one water bottle filled, but decided to just get them both filled, fresh out of the press.. Then slowly diluted one of them as I drank and refilled the bottle.
I tend to like to carry some salami, cheese, and cookies.
10-10-18, 04:39 PM
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My god, I love whenever @OldTryGuy posts a ReLive. Those route traces are BONKERS. And 127 miles with 115ft? Amazing. I make a determined effort to keep my rides above 100 miles flatter, meaning only 2,500-3,500ft of elevation. Sometimes it works.
I did 3,000 feet in 30 miles this morning. I feel like Florida is some sort of mythical land.
I did 3,000 feet in 30 miles this morning. I feel like Florida is some sort of mythical land.
A nice 11 hour drive to Dahlonega Ga. for Six Gap and 11,000' in 103 miles. Bit of a change from SW FL.
10-10-18, 05:08 PM
#18
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My long rides are a number of shorter rides placed end to end over several weeks time.
a Bike Tour, as it's called..
a Bike Tour, as it's called..
10-11-18, 01:31 AM
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Yeah, conditioning and health matter. Usually I don't need to eat much before a ride but lately with this stupid thyroid problem my metabolism is like a box of chocolates -- I never know what I'm gonna get.
Wednesday I had an appointment to get reevaluated for thyroid surgery. Second doc wants another biopsy, etc. Nothing stressful Wednesday, just a consult. Felt great Wednesday morning and afternoon. Had a light breakfast, good lunch -- bbq, cole slaw, potato salad, no desert or sugary soft drink. I planned to get home in time for an evening group ride. Suddenly felt dizzy on the way home, realized I needed a nap more than a bike ride. Could barely get up off the sofa until after 10 pm.
Had some coffee, oatmeal, smoothie with protein and suddenly felt good again. Apparently I had a blood sugar crash earlier. Hadn't experienced that in many years. Didn't occur to me since I'd been eating healthy all summer. But this stupid thyroid thing is making every day a challenge.
Now it's almost 3 a.m. and I'm thinking of doing an @OldTryGuy ride -- starting in the wee hours and riding 'til dawn. Then I need to be home for other stuff. But the night is clear, cool in the 50s, perfect riding weather.
Wednesday I had an appointment to get reevaluated for thyroid surgery. Second doc wants another biopsy, etc. Nothing stressful Wednesday, just a consult. Felt great Wednesday morning and afternoon. Had a light breakfast, good lunch -- bbq, cole slaw, potato salad, no desert or sugary soft drink. I planned to get home in time for an evening group ride. Suddenly felt dizzy on the way home, realized I needed a nap more than a bike ride. Could barely get up off the sofa until after 10 pm.
Had some coffee, oatmeal, smoothie with protein and suddenly felt good again. Apparently I had a blood sugar crash earlier. Hadn't experienced that in many years. Didn't occur to me since I'd been eating healthy all summer. But this stupid thyroid thing is making every day a challenge.
Now it's almost 3 a.m. and I'm thinking of doing an @OldTryGuy ride -- starting in the wee hours and riding 'til dawn. Then I need to be home for other stuff. But the night is clear, cool in the 50s, perfect riding weather.
10-11-18, 03:13 PM
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.............Now it's almost 3 a.m. and I'm thinking of doing an @OldTryGuy ride -- starting in the wee hours and riding 'til dawn. Then I need to be home for other stuff. But the night is clear, cool in the 50s, perfect riding weather.
Just don't wait until 3AM the next time because a Midnight Madness Ride is way better.
