Koogar

I largely agree with the above comments - if your dropout length allows some flexibility in chainring and cog choice without changing chains, that convenience will soon become more important to you than any incremental aero gain, at least for day-to-day riding and racing. If you're setting up a bike for an hour record attempt, sure, tuck in the wheel so tight that you need to deflate it to take it off (people really do this).

By the way, the distance the wheel travels forward will be even less than half the length of chain removed, but by how much depends on the chainring and cog combination. The bigger the chainring and smaller the cog, the larger the angle formed by the top and bottom portions of the chain, and the less the wheel moves forward for any reduction in chain length.

calamarichris

But seriously thanks for the responses. My current Leader has got a good inch between tire & sculpted downtube with the 50-16, which is about the smallest gear I'll need with the largest combination.
Just idle curiosity for now, but thanks for the spoonf... for the responses.

carleton

Hey man, everyone cuts a chain too short in their track racing career then realizes it and goes an buys a new chain. It's gonna happen. Just don't do it with an $80 Izumi V chain like I did

dunderhi

Not everyone. Some of us just add the links back to the chain.

carleton

Hahaha!

I've never felt confident pushing pins back in. Do modern chains support that?

queerpunk

Modern road chains don't, but track chains generally do - the pin is just a pin, nothing fancy to it. It can go out and go back in. I mean, it's hard to get it back in if it's all the way out, but as long as it's still in the outer plate, it'll go back through the roller and into the other outer plate just fine.

It sometimes results in a stiff link but that's a quick fix.

Flatballer

Yeah, track chains are meant to be able to remove and replace the pins, at least a few times. I maybe wouldn't do it 20 times, but a few is certainly fine.

As qp says though, don't do it with modern road chains. They have master links for a reason, and those are only supposed to be used a limited number of times (3 for KMC I think).

700wheel

To digress: Shimano road chains still come with rivets and I have had no problem with them in at least 10 years.

calamarichris

Thanks for the chain info! Today's SNQOD:

Will a normal Park FFG-2 (frame & fork alignment checker tool) suffice for checking the alignment of an aluminium track frame? And I presume if there is an alignment problem, I do NOT want to attempt to bend it back into alignment?

I'm meeting a seller Saturday morning and want to look it over pretty carefully before plunking down a fat stack benjamins.

dunderhi

Queerpunk and FlatBaller already answered, but their certainly isn't an issue with a 1/8" chain. After that, I would think the risk increases as the pins shorten and plates get thinner. Since I've broken a bunch of chains (and many other parts too) over the years, I carry a chain tool in my road bag. It's not like bikes have lots of options to carry spares while out on the open road. One exception is built-in spares in a cassette; I broke two individual cassette cogs this year, so it was nice having ten others to choose from to finish my ride.

BTW, as 700Wheel said, Shimano chains come with solid pin that need to me pushed in with a chain tool rather than a master link.

queerpunk

Anybody use unbadged disc wheels from ebay or alibaba? It looks like Pro-Lite rebadges them - and probably a few other companies, too.

Since I've damaged one Zipp disc and complete ruined another, something a lot cheaper is appealing.

2013 China Carbon Disc Rear Wheels Tubular for Road Track TT Bike | eBay

calamarichris

Ahoy Bandera.
Are those "proper tools" in your picture track-specific? Or will ordinarily road frame alignment tools (like the FFG-2) work on track frames as well? And if it's an aluminium frame with alignment issues, I presume I don't want to attempt to bend it into alignment as I would a steel frame?


And today's SNQOD: Are Lemond-era Scott Drop-In style bars forbidden or discouraged on tracks?
(Not the actual (noodly) Scott bars, but the Nitto/Specialized version which are much stiffer.)

Bandera

Yes, alignment tools like the FFG-2 are agnostic and work on track or road frames steel dropouts/fork/track ends.

A poorly aligned AL frameset, much less a CF one, would not be a candidate for the flat-table/fork-jig work we did on steel racing frames back when.
I would be very thorough on the initial QC of any new frameset and simply send it back to the mfg if it way out of alignment. Straight is good.

Ask the SD track folk on bar recommendations/legality.
Even for pursuit those do not look like a good idea to me...

Gratuitous Zeus track bike pic because: Zeus (loved mine).

edit: I see above that you are looking to buy a used track bike, my favorite model the elusive "Caveat Emptor": Never crashed and only ridden in church pursuits on Sundays.
Be very thorough in your QC and willing to walk in a friendly and respectful manner if not up to snuff, or snap it up. One or the other.

Good luck.

-Bandera

calamarichris

Quanda bella!

Yeah, riding up to LA near the Carson Velodrome to possibly buy this US-Made GT Pulse Kinesis (frame only).
Also bringing a spent (cleaned) bottom bracket to check the BB threads. Guy seems on-the-level, so I'm optimistic.




Thank you for the answers on the frame-alignment tool!

Bandera

Actually that tool will only tell dropout/track end align.
For "how to" check frame align read:
"Checking Alignment (Symmetry)" using the "string method" by Sheldon Brown:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html#symmetry

LA does indeed have a velodrome but lots of "track bikes" used as "fixies" that have never seen the banking but potholed streets, curbs, mad-skiddz and much, much worse.

-Bandera

calamarichris

The seller does indeed live on the coast and I just learned he's never been to Carson. Going to look it over very carefully, and probably not buy any of his components.
Thanks for the tips and ride safely this weekend.

79pmooney

I don't see a lot of Zeus anything and I think that is the first Zeus bike I ever laid eyes on. I have a soft spot for Zeus because of the one piece of Zeus gear I owned. My big racing years, I had a new Fuji Pro. A pure racing bike with fit that was perfect for me. One of my first races was Vermont's Smuggler's Notch. Hit a frost heave on the descent at most of 60 mph in a drizzle and my glasses pulled down so I could see a little. No time to do any more than just hang on. Got kicked several feet into the air. Came down straight on wheels that were still intact. Raced on and placed. Won a 27.2 Zeus seatpost. On inspection of my bike for damage from that bump, I found the Hupel Rider seatpost that came on the bike had a significant bend to the rear. I couldn't use the post I own; I needed a 26.8 but the shop that offered the prize was in my home city so swapping it was easy. And what a nice post! As good (at least for this light rider) as a Campy but a lot lighter.

Ben

carleton

Very nice, but why choose a vintage bike over a modern one with longer dropouts and a threadless stem? You are giving up a lot of bar and stem options for sure.

seau grateau

The unwrapped/unplugged bars would be kind of a dead give-away that it's not being used for the track. Doesn't look to be in bad shape though, but of course you'll have to inspect it in person to be sure.

jt_uk

Haha I remember GT bikes from my mountain biking days when I was a school kid and could only dream about affording one. Nothing has changed

Jared.

Bump? Same question. Looking into this for next year.

gycho77

I would rather buy Renn disc wheel.
I know it's 200dollar extra, but it's made in US!

https://www.rennmultisport.com/cgi-bi...gi?product=555

calamarichris

Thanks. Because I'm an old fart and all my bikes are vintagish. There's nothing I love more than being the chubbiest, oldest old guy at the summit finish of l'Etape du California on the only steel bike out of 800-1000; being the only bulldog watching the late-comers to the greyhound convention.

The frame also came with a stouter KHS threadless fork that I can experiment with.
I know what you mean about modern bars though. I have threadless adaptors and mountainbike stems on several of my vintage bikes, precisely because I got addicted to those comfy carbon bars.

I got the bike. Quite a beauty. Stiff as a board, light as a fart, and finer than frog's hair. No headset on the bike, so I'm not positive on the BB drop, but it is very high. Will post pics of the build. Really, really looking forward to this and seeing how she handles and feels.
We also visited the Carson Velodrome and it was supercool! Steep! Fun day!

carleton

Hahahaha.

You know what you are getting into. Sometimes new racers go for vintage and/or NJS stuff because it looks great but don't know what they are getting into. I did that with the first frame I bought for racing. It literally never saw the track because I had such a hard time finding parts to build it up. After weeks of frustration I ditched it and bought a used Planet X.

calamarichris

? Maybe I don't know what I'm getting into then. What did you have trouble finding?

I'm not looking to keep this GT "correct" or anything like that. On the drive up to the deal yesterday, my gf even asked if it would be weird to build up Zipp rims with Phil Wood hubs, and I couldn't come up with an answer.

"That should have Campagnolo... a quill stem would look nicer... all you need is friction shifters and that bike would be perfect..." I used to not care what other people think, but I've become conditioned to enjoy vexing people with my choices.

My GF keeps saying, "..and you have a GT!"