Maelochs

Thing there Azreal911 ... is that bikes are not designed to be slammed in the side by cars.

Sure, you could build a bike to be strong in that situation, but it would weigh a ton. Bikes are minimalist---designed to be just enough to do what is needed. Since bikes don't take side impacts except in dire situations, and in that situation the rider is going to get wrecked, no one much worries about the bike surviving.

Do you want to ride a bike with crash bars, 5-mph bumpers, and a roll cage? it could be done. You might not be able to pedal it over 5 mph, but it would survive.

Even that crash test----bicycle frame makers aren't saying "Our bike will survive a head-on collision which would undoubtedly kill the rider." They are saying, "If our frames can survive this kind of impact, it can certainly survive all the years of riding you would want to do on one of our frames."

Any material and any design can be tested in a way that will show its strength or its weaknesses. The issue is intended use. If you go dirt-jumping on your Emonda or Tarmac .....

Another point though ... I have heard a few stories about people with lightweight steel and aluminum frames who got dangerous dings by leaning the frame too hard against a wall, or bumping a rail carrying it up stairs. of course a metal bike focuses stress on the ding and it can grow into a tear, particularly with today's ultra-thin lightweight metal frames.

My point isn't that any material is better than any other. Any ultralight bike (as others have said) will be less durable than an ultra-durable but heavier bike---any idiot can see that.

Recall the guy who said he felt he could crush his CAAD12 like it was a soda can? He's not far off---but what a sweet-riding frame. Depends what you want your bike for.

If an ultra-light bike is not what you want don't buy one. Why people seem to have a real hard time with that simple concept should be beyond me ... but I have met enough people that I am much more shocked when I meet one who can actually reason.

rekmeyata

I think damage is going on BEFORE you hear the loud enough cracking noises to be picked up by the mike for you to hear, which is why CF fails without the rider knowing it because it made no audible noise. The cracking sound is the fibers on the outside breaking away due to force of course but also because the inner fibers had already failed leaving no support left for the outer fibers to hold up against the force.

CF doesn't like stones either that could get kicked up with enough force from a front tire to punch a hole into the down tube: Hole in Carbon S-Works frame

Then there's this test of steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber:
OF course there is the steel fork vs a carbon fork in a sword fight: Carbonomas Steel Fork - 1-1/8" - Threadless - Curved

benaroundawhile

Many CF bikes handle rock stone strikes just fine. There will always be outliers (like your link) regardless of the frame material.

More outliers:

"Steel doesn't like hitting curbs or trees"


CF fork was fine (The bird is down (or How a bike frame should fail) | Peter Verdone Designs)


(Steel (TIG) Frame Repair?- Mtbr.com)

rekmeyata

geeeeeeeee, lets post pictures:

Busted Carbon

Maelochs

Well, this thread is over. Fun while it lasted.

benaroundawhile

Again, outliers.

Dweedster bike forums anti-carbon Google search evangelists are always amusing.

idiotekniQues

I wish the bridges spanning the hudson and east rivers in NYC were made of carbon - there would be less traffic the cars would go over them faster.

benaroundawhile

That's a really tasty non sequitur.

Congrats!

idiotekniQues

all yer fancy languages beats me.

all i know is i worked in a bike shop for a season and never saw a broken steel or aluminum anything. but saw some broken carbon. we couldn't clamp a carbon frame in an ordinary clamp that steel and aluminum we be ok with. heck we couldn't even tighten a seatpost on a carbon bike without a special torque wrench.

i think that's enough data to close this argument down my man.

benaroundawhile

Say no more...

It's obvious that you can't understand that "carbon frames" aren't a monolithic subset of bikes and that they come in many different flavors. It's not the material, it's how it's engineered silly.

I would suggest that you find someone to help you with the "fancy languages" that you have admitted to struggling with.

idiotekniQues

more fancy languages with 'monolithic'. sounds so, so primordial.

wait, was that a big word too?

i dunno me and my steel frame-hybrid with a carbon fork are gonna keep on ridin'

benaroundawhile

Awesome.

When confronted with your idiocy deflect, deflect, deflect.

It's definitely an indictment of your intelligence as well as your character.

idiotekniQues

I forgot to mention I'm going to need to borrow a torque wrench next time I have to tighten my carbon fork onto my sexy steel frame. Got an extra? Thanks.

benaroundawhile

You just need to HTFU.

Have used carbon bars, stem, seat post, saddles, frames, rims for many years. Never used a torque wrench, never had a failure.

But of course you have this deep, deep, experience after allegedly "working in a bike shop for a season" so yeah, I would expect this kind of repeated confusion from you.

idiotekniQues

Actually that's a true story. Personally I'm all about steel. I like carbon, and to add to thatI think the bridges are lighter it's pretty amazing actually

So while I saw a couple cracked carbon frames and nothing else cracked that mostly summer, I don't have enough data to be the end all be all of info here.

But also a true story, when we had a customer ride a carbon framed bike we were required to use a torque wrench to tighten it up vs with any other bike it was basically here, take an allen wrench and tighten the ****er.

rekmeyata

That's what my mechanic said at my LBS too and he's been there about 15 years, though he did see some broke aluminum but nothing like CF, and he said the CF bike companies blame all the damages on either an accident or fatigue so rarely is a warranty paid out vs other materials they sold, mostly because the other materials were much more easier to ascertain what happened. Oh grap, I just had a thought...nevermind, it would create a huge arguement here.

rekmeyata

I try to amuse you, but someone posted pics so I returned the favor, hope you liked it.

vinfix

Since there's so many thousands of carbon bikes being ridden thousands of miles, it would be easy to dismiss these failure stories as anecdotal evidence of a miniscule amount.

But I was recently at a cocktail party with a cyclist friend and a member of his club- and they were talking about escorting their clubmate, wobbling home after his frame cracked while out on a ride. I didn't get the make/model, but it sounded like it was a similar fell-over-sideways situation, not a significant crash.

So I may eat my words one day, but when I hear a story like that first-hand, not on the Internet, I think I'll stick with my steel frames.

jimb100

I know a guy, been cycling for well over 100 yrs. His son has been cycling for over 89. Both were riding steel framed bikes that rusted out from the inside. When they collapsed, there was nothing left but a pile of rust dust underneath them. Luckily, since they collapsed so completely into dust, they were able to immediately start running, so they just ran home.

Another guy I know was in an LBS, just chatting with the owner, when a cyclist comes in with a steel framed bike. The bike had a tiny dent in the down tube from where a garbage truck had run over it. They were able to cut out the dented section and replace it with a piece of iron sewer pipe but that put the bike over 18 lbs so the guy didn't want it any more.

All true, at least that's what I heard from guys who wouldn't lie or stretch the truth.

GamblerGORD53

On my tour bike, the steel seat post is wrapped with CF. It WILL survive that dropped anvil test.

vinfix

Yeah, I think I know the son, he's a friend of my cousin. He rides a recumbent now, so if he falls off he's closer to the ground.

Jarrett2

Congrats to the OP.

Carbon frames asplode sometimes.

Props to Bianchi for getting him a free frame for his troubles.

trainchaser

...some interesting reading on the topic of discussion from some people who DO know what they're talking about, not that it's going to change any opinions. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's already made up..."

https://calfeedesign.com/tech-papers/...l-white-paper/

italktocats

offtopic but they USED TO, money is more important these days

rekmeyata

Don't pay any attention to the rust cynics. Sheldon Brown, the appointed guru of bikes, rode a 1918 Ranger to work a lot and it never rusted out, in fact that bike has less, err make that no anti rust features than modern bikes that came out later had and have. If a steel bike is taken care of there is no need to worry about rust. I have a friend who restores 40's and 50's balloon bikes, finds these things in barns where they were stored since about the 40's and 50's, neglected, paint shot, but they're not rusted out. That's not to say a steel bike can't rust out but they only do so if the owner neglects the bike and water that got in isn't drained. I've had 13 or 14 steel bikes over the years and the only one that rusted was the one I neglected because it was cheap and I rode it along the ocean surf right on the sand and it got drenched with ocean water a lot. Even then that bike never rusted out but the inside of the bottom bracket, which is where all the ocean water would drain down into, there was flaking rust inside the shell, but the bike was 20 some odd years old at the time before I tossed it into the dumpster, 10 of those years was in salt water. I still have a bunch of steel bikes, my oldest one is 32 years old that I put over 160,000 miles on which included rain rides (but no salt water drenchings) and there isn't a spot of rust inside or outside. None of my steel bikes have had any internal treatments, but a person could if they wanted to have added insurance; I did however spread a thin film of automotive grease on both the seatpost and seat tube, and on the 160,000 mile bike I put a Lizard Skin headset wrap on to prevent water from getting down there, and kept scratches touched up, these are simple and cheap things to do.

There's more issues with aluminum corroding than steel rusting!

I agree with you though about steel bikes, they will last forever if you don't neglect them, as will titanium if you want a lighter alternative to steel.