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Headset for an Italian bike--vintage 1994

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Headset for an Italian bike--vintage 1994

Old 05-18-18, 07:21 AM
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threeteas
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Headset for an Italian bike--vintage 1994

I am refurbishing a very nice steel Giordana frame that was issued to my old racing team many moons ago (in 1995). I think it is an older year, maybe 1993 or 1994. The frame is a Giordana Capella with high end Oria tubing.

The original fork is toast and I'm putting in a carbon threadless fork with a 1 inch steerer tube. I purchased a threadless headset to put in for the fork but when going to press the cups realized that they are too small in diameter (you can basically place one in the bottom with your hand).

Would the headtube have odd sizing diameter that would facilitate a special diameter headset? The headset I ordered was a standard 26.4/27. Some of the diameters and threads on this bike are Italian (bottom bracket for instance).

Thanks for any info!
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Old 05-18-18, 08:52 AM
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If you follow https://blue.canecreek.com/headset-fit-finder you should get the right headset even if the bike has at some point been modified.
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Old 05-18-18, 09:12 AM
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threeteas
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Originally Posted by easyupbug
If you follow https://blue.canecreek.com/headset-fit-finder you should get the right headset even if the bike has at some point been modified.
This is great--thank you!
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Old 05-18-18, 09:22 AM
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non internet, computer search , Mechanic's answer; Take it out and measure the dimensions ,
if you don't own the tools to measure things,
A bike shop will..
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Old 05-18-18, 10:46 AM
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Invest in a digital caliper. They can be found for less than $20. You will find that you will use them a lot more than you can imagine. I know that this does not resolve your current issue, but could allow better diagnosis.
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Old 05-18-18, 11:46 AM
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I wonder if you bought a JIS headset (30.0 mm cup) instead of an ISO headset (30.2 mm cups). That would explain the easy press fit.
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Old 05-18-18, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by threeteas
I am refurbishing a very nice steel Giordana frame that was issued to my old racing team many moons ago (in 1995). I think it is an older year, maybe 1993 or 1994. The frame is a Giordana Capella with high end Oria tubing.

The original fork is toast and I'm putting in a carbon threadless fork with a 1 inch steerer tube. I purchased a threadless headset to put in for the fork but when going to press the cups realized that they are too small in diameter (you can basically place one in the bottom with your hand).

Would the headtube have odd sizing diameter that would facilitate a special diameter headset? The headset I ordered was a standard 26.4/27. Some of the diameters and threads on this bike are Italian (bottom bracket for instance).

Thanks for any info!
There's nothing odd about it. The common threaded headset dimensional standards are what are known as the Campagnolo or Professional standard, and the JIS (Japan Industrial Standard.) Park Tools' web site refers to the Professional standard as the "Modern European" standard. (Sheldon Brown's site notwithstanding, ISO is not a headset dimensional standard. It is a steerer thread standard. It's just easier to type ISO than Professional or Modern European, but it's wrong.) I'd be very surprised if an Italian-made racing bike were made to the JIS dimensional standard rather than the Professional.

Here's your problem: The Campagnolo/Professional dimensional standard cup skirt diameter is 30.2mm. The interference fit requires the head tube bore to be about 30.1mm.
The JIS dimensional standard cup skirt diameter is 30.0mm, so it will be a slip fit in a head tube that is sized for a Professional standard cup.
You appear to have a head tube that is cut for a Professional standard headset, and a JIS headset. Not a safe match.

These two dimensional standards also specify different crown race inside diameters. Professional is 26.4mm. JIS is 27.0mm. Obviously a JIS crown race will rattle around on a Professional-size crown race seat. A Professional crown race can't be pressed onto a JIS seat without usually cracking. As suggested, buy a caliper and determine your head tube bore and crown race diameter accurately. Then you can proceed with confidence.

The SHIS designation for a Professional standard headset is: EC30/25.4 EC30/26
The SHIS designation for a JIS standard headset is: EC29/25.4 EC29/27
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Old 05-21-18, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghrumpy
There's nothing odd about it. The common threaded headset dimensional standards are what are known as the Campagnolo or Professional standard, and the JIS (Japan Industrial Standard.) Park Tools' web site refers to the Professional standard as the "Modern European" standard. (Sheldon Brown's site notwithstanding, ISO is not a headset dimensional standard. It is a steerer thread standard. It's just easier to type ISO than Professional or Modern European, but it's wrong.) I'd be very surprised if an Italian-made racing bike were made to the JIS dimensional standard rather than the Professional.

Here's your problem: The Campagnolo/Professional dimensional standard cup skirt diameter is 30.2mm. The interference fit requires the head tube bore to be about 30.1mm.
The JIS dimensional standard cup skirt diameter is 30.0mm, so it will be a slip fit in a head tube that is sized for a Professional standard cup.
You appear to have a head tube that is cut for a Professional standard headset, and a JIS headset. Not a safe match.

These two dimensional standards also specify different crown race inside diameters. Professional is 26.4mm. JIS is 27.0mm. Obviously a JIS crown race will rattle around on a Professional-size crown race seat. A Professional crown race can't be pressed onto a JIS seat without usually cracking. As suggested, buy a caliper and determine your head tube bore and crown race diameter accurately. Then you can proceed with confidence.

The SHIS designation for a Professional standard headset is: EC30/25.4 EC30/26
The SHIS designation for a JIS standard headset is: EC29/25.4 EC29/27
You are correct about all of this! Unfortunately we have also found that Professional standard headsets are no longer manufactured in 1" threadless formats, at least the suppliers for my LBS. If any of you kind wrenchers have any suggestions let me know, kind of in a quandary about this. It also seems likely that in some old parts bins we might be able to scrounge something together and it also seems possible that these types of headsets are still manufactured in parts of Europe.

Thanks for the input on this interesting quandary!
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Old 05-21-18, 11:45 AM
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Try Harris cycles or Rivendel?
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Old 05-21-18, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by threeteas
You are correct about all of this! Unfortunately we have also found that Professional standard headsets are no longer manufactured in 1" threadless formats, at least the suppliers for my LBS. If any of you kind wrenchers have any suggestions let me know, kind of in a quandary about this. It also seems likely that in some old parts bins we might be able to scrounge something together and it also seems possible that these types of headsets are still manufactured in parts of Europe.

Thanks for the input on this interesting quandary!
Possibly. Maybe your LBS just don't have accounts with those who make them.
I came up with these right off the top of my head. I'm sure there are a few others:
Chris King still make Professional Std. headsets, threaded and threadless. Expensive but worth it. Many colors available.
Cane Creek make the EC30 threadless, black only. (part # BAA0449)
Tange-Seiki make the Technoglide Classic threadless (in both Pro and JIS.)
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Old 05-21-18, 12:13 PM
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Looks like the Cane Creek 110 Classic threadless comes in EC30 CR26 and is available from Modern Bike. SJS Cycles has a couple different offerings that appear to be EC30.
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Old 05-22-18, 09:30 AM
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Between the Cane Creek and Chris King I would go with the CK. I have both in 1" Threadless and the CK is a better quality piece. Better seals, easy to get individual parts for (not likely you'll need them since CK last forever) they even sell various under/over sized parts such as an undersized I.D. diameter crown race I had to get when mine became loose and better overall support. If you needed a more common size I would say there are plenty of good headsets for less than half the price of CK but since the Cane Creek is one of the few quality 1" headsets available at nearly the same price as the CK, the King HS would be an easy choice for me. Shop around for deals.
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